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CGC Article in Los Angeles Times

Old 08-22-07, 12:08 AM
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CGC Article in Los Angeles Times

This was in today's Times - thought I'd share.

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment...ck=1&cset=true

Certified Guaranty Co. puts comics on a slab


Spencer Weiner / LAT
It's not superpowers that make comic book heroes untouchable these day. It's the stiff sleeves that render them unreadable and more valuable.

By Geoff Boucher, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer August 21, 2007

Remember when comic books were considered too juvenile to be read? Now it appears that they have become too valuable to be touched.

A company in Sarasota, Fla., has created a sensation among collectors by taking their comic books, both rare vintage issues and brand-new ones, and encasing them in plastic slabs that make them both unreadable and instantly more valuable.

The Captain Marvel and Donald Duck comic books that arrive at the offices of the Certified Guaranty Co. are treated like archival treasures of the highest order -- armed sentries guard the lobby, technicians and appraisers wear latex gloves as they carefully examine each page and a sophisticated sonic device is used to seal the books up in the sturdy plastic containers that some collectors call "coffins."

Depending on the age and pedigree of the book being appraised and "slabbed," CGC charges from $12 to $1,000 for its services and, in upcoming months, the 7-year-old company will slab its 1 millionth comic book. That book may be a 60-year-old issue of Detective Comics that costs as much as a Porsche but it could also be the latest $3 issue of World War Hulk -- about half of the books that come to CGC now are fresh from the printer and probably 80% of them have never been read.

All of this seems like heresy to many old-line comic book purists.

"It's changed the nature of the hobby, it's turned comic books into a medium of exchange instead of a medium of entertainment," groaned James Friel, who works at Comic Relief, the longtime landmark store in Berkeley. To Friel, who has been collecting comics since 1958, "it makes these books a sealed-up commodity. You can't read them. It makes me sad. Some of these books will be sealed up forever."

Frank Miller, arguably the most important comic book artist of the last two decades, has seen plenty of fans lock up his books in the slabs in recent years and he shakes his head at the whole concept.

"I think it's all pretty silly," said Miller, whose graphic novels "300" and "Sin City" have led to major Hollywood success stories. "But I'm of a generation that love the feel and smell of these ephemeral old leaflets. . . . Maybe it will get to the point where I can put out comics that have blank pages inside -- just covers -- and no one will notice."

The slabs are made with two sheets of thick, stiff plastic, and the books inside are encased in a thin, heat-sealed interior sleeve as well. A label inside the archival slab has a CGC hologram, a unique bar code and a description of its condition with a numeric grade. The overall package is as sturdy as a plastic clipboard and lands with a clatter if you drop it on the floor.

The CGC success story is not based on just the plastic "coffins" -- it's also the company's introduction of a 25-point scale for grading the condition of comics. That new standard has brought a precision to the once-subjective hobby that has inspired a wave of investments by non-collectors. In other words, lots of people who don't know the difference between Green Lantern and Green Arrow are now buying slabbed comics and putting them in safe-deposit boxes.

"With our grading, it's much easier for novices to come and buy valuable comic books and know what they are getting," said Steven Borock, the president and primary grader at CGC. "In essence, what we offer is the cheapest insurance in the world. If you're buying a $5,000 comic book, why wouldn't you send us the book to be sure it's what you think it is? There is a long, long history of people getting ripped off."

And Borock should know: The reason he has his job now is that once upon a time he was the naive collector getting ripped off.

It's a sad day when a starry-eyed fanboy finds out that, in real life, truth and justice are not always the American way. For Borock, that heartbreak moment came in the mid-1980s after he decided to sell vintage issues of the Amazing Spider-Man and the Brave & the Bold that he had been buying at comic-book conventions through the years. That's when the Brooklyn native discovered that many of his most prized issues had been doctored with acrylic paint, glue and paper patches to disguise their flaws.

The surreptitious surgery made Borock's books into kryptonite on the collector's market. "They were worth about $16,000 less than I paid," Borock recalled with a groan. "If I wasn't such a die-hard fanatic the whole experience would have chased me out of the hobby."

Instead, much like Batman, Borock sought vengeance for his youthful trauma. He didn't don a cape, but did become an outspoken merchant and a detective of sorts, learning all he could from his father (who owned the Letter Guild, a prominent Manhattan print shop) about paper stocks and printing nuances. He also learned all the tricks of "fixing" comic books -- how a light dusting of Pam cooking spray could give a cover a false sheen (and, eventually, eat away at it) or how a ragged-looking cover could be given a nice clean edge with a careful razor cut. A rolled-up piece of white Wonder Bread, he noted, is an effective way to erase blemishes on old comic books without leaving streaks.

"But you have to take the crust off first," he quickly added.

This curious education paid off big for Borock when a new era began in comic books: the age of EBay. The on-line auction house created a major surge in the sale of comics, baseball cards and other collectibles. The problem was that crooks and rubes often came together in the bidding rooms. To be fair, even among honest dealers, there were wildly different definitions of what qualified as "mint condition."

"It was the Wild West," Borock said. "You could buy a book from someone who said it was in mint condition and when it arrived, it was beat-up or missing pages. And what could you do? The person that sold it could say it wasn't like that when they mailed it or they could say you had switched it with another book."

A company called Certified Collectibles Group, a mainstay in the appraisal of coins, took notice of the slippery comics marketplace and decided that a third-party appraiser -- especially one that (literally) sealed the deal with a plastic-protected book -- could make big money. Then they tapped Borock, a genial 44-year-old Grateful Dead fan with a ponytail who had become a figure of integrity to other merchants, to lead its start-up comic book division.

"And everybody instantly hated me," Borock said. "Like 90% of the dealers. They hated what we were doing. People said bad things about me. . . I lost sleep over it."

The naysayers accused CGC of everything from biased appraisals to manipulating the market. Borock defended himself and his staff but the mistrust still clearly pains him. "My word is everything to me. Everything." (Borock said he no longer actively collects vintage comic books, a nod to the delicate ethics of his post.) The accusations faded through the years and now there are many merchants and fans that will not deal in high-value books unless they are slabbed.

But there is still plenty of grumbling.

"Things will never be the same again," says Robert Beerbohm, a nationally known dealer who opened his first store in 1972. He was initially a sour critic of slabbing, but now he sells them. "They changed the hobby, whether you love it or hate it."

Last month, at the International Comic-Con in San Diego, Beerbohm and other comic book dealers from around the country set up booths for 38th year. CGC had a table as well and collectors lined up to submit comics for appraisal and slabbing. Borock worked the room, stopping to hug old friends.

"I grew up at conventions, I've known a lot of these people for 20 or 25 years," Borock said. "This is where I'm from. And I'm proud we've been able to help the hobby. There are people here today that would have bought books that would have ripped them off."

Now, "doctored" books get a purple label in their CGC slabs, the funny-book equivalent to a scarlet letter to a significant number of collectors.

There is considerable heat in the marketplace now and many attribute it to the advent of CGC as well as the ongoing Hollywood interest in comic book characters. Either way, values have surged in the CGC era; on EBay a slabbed book often sells for twice as much as a naked copy.

How does Borock feel about the notion that his company has made comic books into something to be sold, not read? He points out that many key issues of the famous old comic book titles have been reprinted countless times. More important, Borock said, the slabs are not forever: "They can be opened." True, but when you do, the slab corners splinter and the CGC appraisal is made moot. Many fans also worry about damaging the books.

Mark Haspel, the No. 2 executive at CGC, conceded that slabs are often the final resting place for a comic. "Do people open up them up and read them? I would hope it happens a lot, but the reality is it doesn't."

The slabbing culture has intensified the mania to acquire comic books without flaws. Even Haspel was a bit incredulous as he offered an example: There's a 1974 comic book that features the first adventure of Wolverine. If you had that book and it got a CGC of 9.6 it would be worth about $3,500, Haspel said. If it got a 9.8, the price jumps to $20,000. "And you know what the difference between the two is?" Haspel paused, picked up a catalog and pushed his fingernail into the spine, creating a tiny crease. "That's the difference."

The craze for pristine books has gotten a bit nutty, according to Borock. "People ask if they can get a book that's a 10.1 or an 11. It doesn't go to 11. This is not like 'Spinal Tap.' "

So are Borock and his company the heroes who brought their hobby to new heights or the villains holding it hostage? One merchant whose Comic-Con table was piled up with rare old copies of comics was Richard Muchin, owner of Tomorrow's Treasures in Commack, N.Y. He rolled his eyes at the mention of CGC.

"They're creating this impression that there is a science to all this, but if there is, it's a false science," he said. "If I buy a slabbed book, I break it out. These books should be held and read. And why do you need a third party to tell you what it's worth? I don't. But I'll tell you what: There are fewer and fewer guys like me."

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I thought it was an interesting-enough article, from a collector point of view, but kinda wondered what the average reader would think or care about it.
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Old 08-22-07, 12:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Bronkster
One merchant whose Comic-Con table was piled up with rare old copies of comics was Richard Muchin, owner of Tomorrow's Treasures in Commack, N.Y. He rolled his eyes at the mention of CGC.

"They're creating this impression that there is a science to all this, but if there is, it's a false science," he said. "If I buy a slabbed book, I break it out. These books should be held and read. And why do you need a third party to tell you what it's worth? I don't. But I'll tell you what: There are fewer and fewer guys like me."
Ain't that the truth!
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Old 08-22-07, 01:24 AM
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"I think it's all pretty silly," said Miller, whose graphic novels "300" and "Sin City" have led to major Hollywood success stories. "But I'm of a generation that love the feel and smell of these ephemeral old leaflets. . . . Maybe it will get to the point where I can put out comics that have blank pages inside -- just covers -- and no one will notice."
I love that last line by Frank Miller. Just covers...sad but true.

I personally don't care. I think CGC is a brilliant idea and anyone who doesn't think so is just jealous they didn't think of it first.

This attitude as been going on for years...now someone just got the bright idea to make a new business out of comic collector's obsessiveness. When I was a teenager during the "Dark Age" of comics when people would buy 20 copies of every new issue #1 comic that came out (along with every different colored cover), I can remember the tons of money people spent (and probably still do) on "acid-free bags" and "acid-free backing boards" and the like. What decided that a comic was near mint? The greasy pimple-faced manager running the store?

Someone just came up with a better way to do it and the market (especially the Ebay market) responded. If you don't like the CGC, don't buy comics like that.

Personally I am old school and feel comics should be read for pleasure and are not supposed to be a retirement investment. I do regret selling most of my collection in the early 90's but not for what they would be worth today but because I would love to sit and thumb thru them all like I did as a kid and teenager. Now I have to look at them in either trade paperbacks or scans on a computer and it's just not the same.

Most comic collector's would probably cry if they saw me buy new comics and hand them to my 3 year old. Yes it was tough to see when he tore his first cover off but he was enjoying the hell out of looking at that comic. I personally think comics are showing up in so many various reprints now that the back issue market will eventually fade away except for the very rare/certain issues that collector's really want. (and then those will likely get reprinted as well)

I have a friend who collects comics and he reads them once and then shutters them away for good. He buys trades and will read them but the comics stay hidden in countless long boxes. He buys stuff like Absolute Watchmen but then leaves the plastic wrap on them hoping they will fetch a crazy premium some day. What happened to the fun of reading comics and enjoying them until the staples became loose?

CGC is a great idea...just not for me. Wish I had thought of it though.
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Old 08-22-07, 02:14 AM
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"I think it's all pretty silly," said Miller, whose graphic novels "300" and "Sin City" have led to major Hollywood success stories. "But I'm of a generation that love the feel and smell of these ephemeral old leaflets. . . . Maybe it will get to the point where I can put out comics that have blank pages inside -- just covers -- and no one will notice."

Oooh, so that explains All Star Batman and Robin.

I'm not for CGC. Not cause I didn't think of it but because it just brings back the 90's in which everyone is buying this shit to somehow turn a profit on it. Buy it cause it's a good story and you enjoy reading it. Not because you think it will buy you your retirement home in Florida for fucks sake.
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Old 08-22-07, 03:57 AM
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I don't think the whole CGC concept is bad in principle, especially when there's so much comics-dealing on eBay where you can't personally inspect a book before you buy it. You can stomp your feet and say comics are meant to be read, but, let's face it, a lot of them are very desirable collectibles. Nobody in their right mind is going to pay $100,000 for a copy of Action Comis #1 only to roll it up and stick it in their back pocket.

Where CGC gets nuts is that people will pay huge premiums high number books. There's really no reason a NM copy of Hulk #181 should be worth $20,000 just because it's slabbed. And it's really fucking stupid to professionally grade modern comics of little or no value when theyh're already in NM condition. If you pay $1000 for a 10.0 copy of Spawn #1, you're an asshole.
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Old 08-22-07, 04:45 AM
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For that matter, if you're buying any new release issue off Wizard's store and pre-ordering copies of slabbed prints of World War Hulk or Civil War you should be punched in the face.
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Old 08-22-07, 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Josh-da-man
I don't think the whole CGC concept is bad in principle, especially when there's so much comics-dealing on eBay where you can't personally inspect a book before you buy it. You can stomp your feet and say comics are meant to be read, but, let's face it, a lot of them are very desirable collectibles. Nobody in their right mind is going to pay $100,000 for a copy of Action Comis #1 only to roll it up and stick it in their back pocket.

Where CGC gets nuts is that people will pay huge premiums high number books. There's really no reason a NM copy of Hulk #181 should be worth $20,000 just because it's slabbed. And it's really fucking stupid to professionally grade modern comics of little or no value when theyh're already in NM condition. If you pay $1000 for a 10.0 copy of Spawn #1, you're an asshole.
But that is not CGC's fault but the buyers who do that. Personally I think it will eventually slow down when the market for these things gets bloated. There are only so many people who will pay the big bucks for a slabbed copy. Then everyone will get their copy slabbed, the market will be flooded with them and the price will go down accordingly.

And for the people not adverse to buying non-slabbed copies, the prices will likely drop even more and you will get an even better deal. It's just going to take some more time for people to catch on and quit buying these things at such inflated prices.
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Old 08-22-07, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by brianluvdvd
But that is not CGC's fault but the buyers who do that. Personally I think it will eventually slow down when the market for these things gets bloated. There are only so many people who will pay the big bucks for a slabbed copy. Then everyone will get their copy slabbed, the market will be flooded with them and the price will go down accordingly.

And for the people not adverse to buying non-slabbed copies, the prices will likely drop even more and you will get an even better deal. It's just going to take some more time for people to catch on and quit buying these things at such inflated prices.
I see a bloat coming for the modern books, no question about that. When you go buy the only 9.8 slabbed copy of the most recent X-Men comic, it seems like a great deal. Why not? It's the only one. But in five years, when there are 100 of them, well, that's a different story.

The older books, like the first Spidey or Bat-Man, I think there will always be a solid market for those in great condition, no matter how many have been slabbed in the past.



So are Borock and his company the heroes who brought their hobby to new heights or the villains holding it hostage? One merchant whose Comic-Con table was piled up with rare old copies of comics was Richard Muchin, owner of Tomorrow's Treasures in Commack, N.Y. He rolled his eyes at the mention of CGC.

"They're creating this impression that there is a science to all this, but if there is, it's a false science," he said. "If I buy a slabbed book, I break it out. These books should be held and read. And why do you need a third party to tell you what it's worth? I don't. But I'll tell you what: There are fewer and fewer guys like me."
His comment is wrong. I understand where he was going, that there's no science to grading and that one book will be graded differently by two different people (hell, by the same person on different days), but to say that a thrid party (CGC) is telling us what a book is worth is flat wrong. All they do is grade and seal the book. It's the collectors who decide how much that book is worth.
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Old 08-22-07, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Jackskeleton
I'm not for CGC. Not cause I didn't think of it but because it just brings back the 90's in which everyone is buying this shit to somehow turn a profit on it.
Originally Posted by Josh-da-man
If you pay $1000 for a 10.0 copy of Spawn #1, you're an asshole.
Originally Posted by Jackskeleton
For that matter, if you're buying any new release issue off Wizard's store and pre-ordering copies of slabbed prints of World War Hulk or Civil War you should be punched in the face.
Amen brothers.

I have no problem with CGC in principal. However, they are helping create false value in modern day comics. As the poster before me said, your 9.8 copy of Captain America 28 is going to look pretty damn good today, but where will you be in a year when there are 100?

I have no problem with a free market economy, and if some dumbass wants to spend $40 for a brand new comic book because it's been graded, more power to him. However, it's this kind of blind speculation that led to the crash of comic books in the 1990s.

Obviously, this is a buyers beware world we live in. However, a company like CGC is creating an atmosphere where there is only a monetary value on a book, and no existential value. Itís at this point that hobbies such as this one will suffer, as speculators tend to leave things in ruins.
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Old 08-22-07, 08:29 AM
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I'd feel a little better if CGC would impose a ban on grading comics less than 10 years old.
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Old 08-23-07, 02:23 AM
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The older books, like the first Spidey or Bat-Man, I think there will always be a solid market for those in great condition, no matter how many have been slabbed in the past.
Yeah. Personally, I think it's a little silly to get a book on ebay that is worth some large amounts of cash. I wouldn't buy a silver age book online. Especially if it's online and I can't see it in my hands and inspect it personally. A private or silent auction would be the way to go.

It'll be worth the same amount slabbed or not if I do it that way. Besides that, I'm not sure what gives this company any more say in what a book says than some random dude in the back of any comic shop while I deal with the purchase.

There's better ways and all CGC seems to be doing is creating situations like this....
http://wizarduniverse.stores.yahoo.net/cgcadvance.html

Really, $49.99 for a slabbed Marvel Zombies 2 #1 that I could buy for $2.50? fuck that shit.

Especially in a day and age where trades come out as soon as a week after the final issue of the series, a single issue like that... it's not going to be worth anywhere near that ever. Shit, just look at how many different printings of the first marvel zombie arc they made.

Even worse is this stupid mentality spread to action figures. Now it's not enough to keep your figures mint in their package and never played with. Now you have to
keep them in an extra layer of plastic..
http://wizarduniverse.stores.yahoo.n...ojulese1o.html

Fuck that sort of world.
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Old 08-23-07, 07:22 AM
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Its silly. I remember thinking the same thing years ago when it was introduced. But I don't buy CGC comics, so it makes non-graded keys cheaper to buy

Just the other day I finally got a copy of Action Comics #58. And you know what? I didn't seal it away...I read it..in the bathroom
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Old 08-23-07, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by stingermck
Just the other day I finally got a copy of Action Comics #58. And you know what? I didn't seal it away...I read it..in the bathroom
TMI my friend! TMI!

I guess Wizard has to do whatever it has to do to stay in business. It's my understanding that their magazine sales aren't so hot these days, and there's apparently a dumbass born every minute of every day.
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Old 08-23-07, 08:47 AM
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Frank Miller, arguably the most important comic book artist of the last two decades, has seen plenty of fans lock up his books in the slabs in recent years and he shakes his head at the whole concept.

"I think it's all pretty silly," said Miller, whose graphic novels "300" and "Sin City" have led to major Hollywood success stories. "But I'm of a generation that love the feel and smell of these ephemeral old leaflets. . . . Maybe it will get to the point where I can put out comics that have blank pages inside -- just covers -- and no one will notice."


This whole 'encase it in plastic' concept is - no pun intended - comical.
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Old 08-23-07, 09:59 AM
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I know of a guy who buys comics only for the covers. I don't even think he reads them, but he buys EVERY variant comic that comes out a given week. So to him, comics are like graduated trading cards. I think it's a little silly, but who am I to tell a man how to spend his money.

People will say "comics are meant to be read" which is true, but "toys are meant to be played with" as well, yet many comic fans have shelves of toys as well. So don't be too quick to judge.

I think people should get joy from whatever, but the CGC does honestly baffle my mind. It does seem like an artificial layer of faux-value for comics. I did a search on eBay one day out of curiosity and brand new comics with a good grading were going for $100's. That I don't get. But I'm also the kind of guy who could give a fuck about the "condition" of my comics. I don't even bag and board. I read them, and then stack them up to be given away. I think the CGC is no more silly than people who read their comics with gloves on to prevent fingerprints or being extra careful not to crease the spine.

While I won't ever use the CGC's services, I could see myself framing a handful of comic issues that are favorits and important to me, so I'm not that much better really.
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Old 08-23-07, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Josh-da-man
If you pay $1000 for a 10.0 copy of Spawn #1, you're an asshole.
Originally Posted by Jackskeleton
For that matter, if you're buying any new release issue off Wizard's store and pre-ordering copies of slabbed prints of World War Hulk or Civil War you should be punched in the face.

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Old 08-24-07, 04:18 PM
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I like CGC.

I don't even mind paying a little more for a key back issue, so long as I know what I'm paying for is worth it. You can blame CGC, but shitty dealers who try to put one over the consumers is what led to it, and when I'm dealing with a fifteen hundred dollar book, I'd just as soon love to know what it's really worth in case I suddenly have to liquidate my stock.

And there is no better feeling than scrounging around some back issue bins, finding a nice one and slabbing it up to find it graded at or better than what you thought it would and much higher than you paid for it.

Like last summer when I got a Hulk 340 CGC 9.6 for eight bucks, then paid 12 to slab it. That was awesome, to me.

Some say it's the downfall of the hobby, but I think it finally lends legitimacy to comic collections. Especially when someone says they own an ASM number 1 and then you go to check it out and its cover's falling off, it's written on and beat to shit. And they still want 2000 bucks for it. Re-re.

Also, it's another way to survive for those trying to make a living in comics...there are some fine sellers on eBay with good reputations for accurate grading. Buying unslabbed from them and sending them in is a good way to turn a profit relatively quickly.
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Old 08-24-07, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by DarkestPhoenix

Also, it's another way to survive for those trying to make a living in comics...there are some fine sellers on eBay with good reputations for accurate grading. Buying unslabbed from them and sending them in is a good way to turn a profit relatively quickly.
That sounds a lot like the rationale of the speculator boom though, no?

I doubt slabbing will ever cause a bust in comics like speculators did though, as it is just comic fans doing it and not mothers and fathers trying to send kids through college.

As a purely investment thing, some would say there are better ways to spend your money. But really if you buy a $20 book, slab it, and then it's worth $75 or something? That ain't too shabby. More power to you.
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Old 08-25-07, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by DarkestPhoenix
Some say it's the downfall of the hobby, but I think it finally lends legitimacy to comic collections. Especially when someone says they own an ASM number 1 and then you go to check it out and its cover's falling off, it's written on and beat to shit. And they still want 2000 bucks for it. Re-re.

Also, it's another way to survive for those trying to make a living in comics...there are some fine sellers on eBay with good reputations for accurate grading. Buying unslabbed from them and sending them in is a good way to turn a profit relatively quickly.
But isn't what you're doing going to hurt that honest seller in the long run? Eventually he may not be able to compete with a guy selling exclusively CGCs. Either he has to also use the service or go the way of the dodo.

Seriously, don't get me wrong. I've been able to pick up some very sweet back issues that I could not have afforded a few years ago, because the price of ungraded comics has dropped in the last few years.

My hope is that another major (legitimate) outfit appears in the next few years. I would hate for CGC to be the only game in town. Monopolies are never a good thing.
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Old 08-29-07, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by madcougar
But isn't what you're doing going to hurt that honest seller in the long run? Eventually he may not be able to compete with a guy selling exclusively CGCs. Either he has to also use the service or go the way of the dodo.
Given what I've just told you, no, that's an impossibility. The one attempting to turn a profit has to get their unslabbed books from somewhere.

You could argue that years down the road there will be no unslabbed high dollar books. And I think that is a good thing, as stated, for those attempting to buy big dollar books, because I don't think anyone should pay too much more than their books are worth, just as I don't think someone should be conned into paying 30 grand for a new Ford Escort.

Even then, years down the road, people will turn their eyes to lesser grade books to slab. What you're talking about in terms of there being a CGC monopoly is 40 years down the road, at least. I happen to think without a service like CGC, many high-grade keys wouldn't even exist 40 years from now, at least not in current condition. To preserve that is worth it.
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Old 08-29-07, 07:08 PM
  #21  
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I think CGC is a brilliant idea and anyone who doesn't think so is just jealous they didn't think of it first.
It is an excellent idea, no question about it, but the value of the CGC slabbed comics skyrockets so dramatically above and beyond the actual book value of the same comic book unslabbed that it makes it feel like you're being penalized if you want to open it. Say you have a comic that's worth $50.00 in perfect mint condition. You buy a 9.8 graded slabbed copy of the same comic for hundreds of dollars. If you open it, you can kiss the bulk of your investment good bye.

I realize that comics are worth what people are willing to pay for them, but I've seen ridiculous extremes in the back issue markets since the introduction of CGC. Such as Amazing Spider Man in mint condition going for $125.00 without a slab and going for $450.00 slabbed.
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Old 08-29-07, 07:27 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by stingermck
Its silly. I remember thinking the same thing years ago when it was introduced. But I don't buy CGC comics, so it makes non-graded keys cheaper to buy

Just the other day I finally got a copy of Action Comics #58. And you know what? I didn't seal it away...I read it..in the bathroom
It's a bathroom, not a bookroom.

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Old 08-30-07, 08:33 AM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by DarkestPhoenix
Given what I've just told you, no, that's an impossibility. The one attempting to turn a profit has to get their unslabbed books from somewhere.
So the honest guy on eBay offering quality books at affordable prices ISN'T trying to turn a profit?

This is obviously a potatoe/potato thing but again, the point is that the day will come, and I doubt it will be 40 years from now, when EVERYONE who wants to sell a comic book for a reasonable amount will have to get it CGCed.

There are obviously two levels of collectors. Those whose primary concern is the value of the books and those whose primary concern is posessing the book.

My main concern is this, it's probably not a good thing overall when an entity like CGC comes in and COMPLETELY turns the market on its head. I understand what you are saying about having keys in NM condition years from now, but on the other hand the market has been changed by a subjective body for all time. I just don't know that if in the long run, that's a good thing.
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Old 08-31-07, 06:13 PM
  #24  
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The only reason I don't like about it is that it encourages people to purchase for profit. I just think its a shame when people purchase for money and those who just want to enjoy things have to pay exorbitant amounts. Unfortunate side effect of our economic system. Oh well.
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Old 08-31-07, 08:57 PM
  #25  
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What kills me about the CGC Grading is the exorbitant fees they charge...$21.00 per comic book at the LEAST. I don't know...I could see a few bucks per comic...especially for anything modern 1975-current, but that's just highway robbery and it's no wonder people are charging so much for CGC comics. They have to make their money back on the CGC grading, Ebay and Pay Pal fees. Bottom line is it really worth it? Are you that much further ahead after selling them for a higher price rather than just selling it in the same condition for a little lower price and not having to absorb all that cost in getting it graded?

I was thinking of getting some old comics CGC graded, but at those prices it's just too much. I am better off selling them for a lower price and just forgetting it...I don't think I'd come out that much further ahead if I got them CGC graded and had to put up that kind of a cost.

It's a good idea, but the way it's run is a HUGE SCAM! Then again, I really don't know what appraisers of other collectibles would charge...how does this compare to somebody who would appraise rare coins or stamps and encase them in some kind of protective case and what they would charge for that service? (This is a serious question...not rhetorical...does anybody know?)

Last edited by calhoun07; 08-31-07 at 09:02 PM.
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