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Amazon remotely deletes "1984" from Kindles

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Amazon remotely deletes "1984" from Kindles

Old 07-18-09, 03:03 AM
  #26  
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Re: Amazon remotely deletes "1984" from Kindles

Originally Posted by Living Dead
So you can't back up a Kindle on another source?
As far as I know, no. You can store a back-up online with them and download if you need, but I don't think you can save a copy on your PC or other device.

EDIT: I'm not sure about this anymore. There is a lot of conflicting information in the Kindle reviews. Some say you can back up on your PC and other aticles say you cannot. I'm totally confused.

Last edited by Psi; 07-18-09 at 03:42 AM. Reason: Add clarification
Old 07-18-09, 03:27 AM
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Re: Amazon remotely deletes "1984" from Kindles

Yet another reason not to jump on "Pay and Download" bandwagon. It's never really yours.

Stuff like this is one of the many reasons I'm slow to buy Digital Content like full games and other content on XBOX LIVE.
Old 07-18-09, 04:10 AM
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Re: Amazon remotely deletes "1984" from Kindles

Personally, I would never buy a device I couldn't back up on another source. That alone would keep me away from the kindle.
Old 07-18-09, 06:01 AM
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Re: Amazon remotely deletes "1984" from Kindles

The article originally referenced had links to more Kindle articles on its page. One of those also troubled me. Kindle charges you a fee to load a document you own (perhaps one you authored) to your Kindle, and is raising that fee.

I would assume I could transfer files I own between my PC and a "reader" directly without involving them. Apparently not.
Old 07-18-09, 06:24 AM
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Re: Amazon remotely deletes "1984" from Kindles

Originally Posted by smashthesymbols
It really is just like Animal Farm isn't it?
You know, I don't usually "get" book jokes.. but that was pretty funny.
Old 07-18-09, 06:31 AM
  #31  
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Re: Amazon remotely deletes "1984" from Kindles

Originally Posted by OldDude
The article originally referenced had links to more Kindle articles on its page. One of those also troubled me. Kindle charges you a fee to load a document you own (perhaps one you authored) to your Kindle, and is raising that fee.
I believe that is when you want to send a personal document wirelessly to your Kindle so you access it later. To me that's a bit like sending a text message to your cell phone, and if there is a fee, I find that reasonable.

I don't know if there is a way you can do the same via a USB cable without wireless transfer and without charge.
Old 07-18-09, 07:12 AM
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Re: Amazon remotely deletes "1984" from Kindles

If you hook up you Kindle to the PC, it shows as an external hard drive and you can transfer stuff back and forth easily.

The fee is if you want to use Whispernet. You can have Kindle convert and email to your @free.kindle com email that then goes to your regular email account and you can transfer it then to your Kindle through USB.
Old 07-18-09, 11:08 AM
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Re: Amazon remotely deletes "1984" from Kindles

I'm intrigued by the idea of ebooks, but Kindle has never really appealed to me. This solidifies that I won't get it.
Old 07-18-09, 11:20 AM
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Re: Amazon remotely deletes "1984" from Kindles

It's interesting to note that 1984 is available for free in its entirety online.

http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks01/0100021.txt

Of course, that site isn't in the US, and another site claims 1984 is also in the public domain in Canada.
Old 07-18-09, 11:47 AM
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Re: Amazon remotely deletes "1984" from Kindles

I thought it was stored locall......f' that!
Old 07-18-09, 03:17 PM
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Re: Amazon remotely deletes "1984" from Kindles

Originally Posted by OldDude
The article originally referenced had links to more Kindle articles on its page. One of those also troubled me. Kindle charges you a fee to load a document you own (perhaps one you authored) to your Kindle, and is raising that fee.

I would assume I could transfer files I own between my PC and a "reader" directly without involving them. Apparently not.
The fee only applies if you wish to convert and transfer a file over the wireless network, and does not apply to web browsing (and file downloading over the web) or purchasing books. If you do not wish to pay the fee, you can convert and transfer to your kindle via USB for free. The fee is just so they can recoup some of the wireless costs, that's all.
Old 07-18-09, 04:22 PM
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Re: Amazon remotely deletes "1984" from Kindles

Originally Posted by awil1026
I believe the solution should have been:

-Removal of the item from the kindle store by amazon.
-Customers (who purchased it in good-faith) get to keep product.
-Retainer of IP rights sues and recovers profits from existing sales and damages.

EDIT: That's assuming that what Deb said is true. Sorry, Deb, I don't feel like looking through the thread you linked to.
No, that is NOT how it "should" be. The copies sold were unauthorized. I see no harm in removing the copies (in effect, an automatic 'recall') and refunding the purchase price paid by those affected. Nobody is out any money, and the rights to the work are protected. There are no losers in this scenario, and it's completely fair.

OTOH, I have a Sony Reader, and copies of all my book files backed up in 2 locations. No online 'whispernet,' fees, or battery-eating wireless to deal with. My Reader goes 3 weeks+ without needing a charge. And all my content is backed up locally.

Besides, I can borrow a TON of ebooks thru my local library. I don't need no stinkin' Amazon, and I don't even have to pay to read new books.
Old 07-18-09, 05:06 PM
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Re: Amazon remotely deletes "1984" from Kindles

Sweet, next can they remove Alexander from my memory and refund the 3 hours of my life?
Old 07-18-09, 05:48 PM
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Re: Amazon remotely deletes "1984" from Kindles

Originally Posted by drmoze
No, that is NOT how it "should" be. The copies sold were unauthorized. I see no harm in removing the copies (in effect, an automatic 'recall') and refunding the purchase price paid by those affected. Nobody is out any money, and the rights to the work are protected. There are no losers in this scenario, and it's completely fair.

OTOH, I have a Sony Reader, and copies of all my book files backed up in 2 locations. No online 'whispernet,' fees, or battery-eating wireless to deal with. My Reader goes 3 weeks+ without needing a charge. And all my content is backed up locally.

Besides, I can borrow a TON of ebooks thru my local library. I don't need no stinkin' Amazon, and I don't even have to pay to read new books.
Really? It's "completely fair"? What about a publisher losing the rights to publish something and asking Barnes & Noble to come into your house, take the book, and leave some cash in it's place?
Old 07-18-09, 06:13 PM
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Re: Amazon remotely deletes "1984" from Kindles

Originally Posted by drmoze
OTOH, I have a Sony Reader, and copies of all my book files backed up in 2 locations. No online 'whispernet,' fees, or battery-eating wireless to deal with. My Reader goes 3 weeks+ without needing a charge. And all my content is backed up locally.

Besides, I can borrow a TON of ebooks thru my local library. I don't need no stinkin' Amazon, and I don't even have to pay to read new books.
I'm happy that you're satisfied with your Sony reader, but I am able to do the same with my Kindle. You can turn wireless off and use it just like a reader. Sony has better PDF support, but it's not hard to convert.
Old 07-19-09, 10:53 AM
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Re: Amazon remotely deletes "1984" from Kindles

Way to kill the thread
Old 07-19-09, 05:27 PM
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Re: Amazon remotely deletes "1984" from Kindles

Slightly OT - If they have the ability to completely remove material, I assume that they would have the ability to alter content that has been downloaded. Good - they could correct factual information for reference material. Bad - unpopular or politically incorrect material could be changed over time to match current opinion.
Old 07-19-09, 10:13 PM
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Re: Amazon remotely deletes "1984" from Kindles

Originally Posted by Just Lurking
Slightly OT - If they have the ability to completely remove material, I assume that they would have the ability to alter content that has been downloaded. Good - they could correct factual information for reference material. Bad - unpopular or politically incorrect material could be changed over time to match current opinion.
Based on their track record with the LOTR trilogy, I don't see this happening much, if at all. Apparently when LOTR was originally released in Kindle version, there were numerous typos and other issues which have since been corrected. Last time I checked, the only solution for the original purchasers is to call Customer Service, have the original order refunded, and re-purchase the book to get the corrected version. They may have fixed this in the month or so since I checked, though.
Old 07-19-09, 10:35 PM
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Re: Amazon remotely deletes "1984" from Kindles

Originally Posted by GatorDeb
Someone at Mobileread gave this example:

You have a Lexus. Someone steals it. That person sells it to a third person. The police find the third person. Who does the car belong to? YOU...
It depends on what state you are in. If you are in Iowa and buy a stolen vehicle in good faith, it is your car.

Tell that to the know-it-all at Mobilread.

Originally Posted by Jason
It's interesting to note that 1984 is available for free in its entirety online...
And available for free for a period of two weeks or so from your local library.
Old 07-20-09, 12:21 AM
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Re: Amazon remotely deletes "1984" from Kindles

This at least points out the truth of digital content. You don't own anything. You are paying full price to rent it.
Old 07-20-09, 01:09 AM
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Re: Amazon remotely deletes "1984" from Kindles

Another who will stick with good ole' paper and binding. I don't get the need to make reading so needlessly expensive and complicated. I'm no technophobe, but this tech always just seemed unnecessary.
Old 07-20-09, 12:19 PM
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Re: Amazon remotely deletes "1984" from Kindles

Originally Posted by Heat
It depends on what state you are in. If you are in Iowa and buy a stolen vehicle in good faith, it is your car.

Tell that to the know-it-all at Mobilread.


And available for free for a period of two weeks or so from your local library.
What happens to the person who had their car stolen? I live very close to Iowa and am looking for a "new" car
Old 07-21-09, 10:22 AM
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Re: Amazon remotely deletes "1984" from Kindles

Originally Posted by darkside
This at least points out the truth of digital content. You don't own anything. You are paying full price to rent it.
It's not "digital content" that's the issue, it's DRM.

I own the mp3s that I've purchased from various different sites. I can make as many copies of them as I want, burn them to as many CDs as I want, transfer them to as many devices as I want, etc. None of the various places I purchased them at have the ability to remove those mp3s from my possession.

The few DRM-ed iTunes songs I purchased over the years though, I did not fully own. I was subject to the rules and whims of Apple's DRM policy as to how many CD copies I could make, what devices I could transfer them to, which and how many PCs could play them, etc. And ultimately, the continued ability to play those tracks was subject to iTunes staying in business, as users of MSN Music and Yahoo Music discovered.

Now that iTunes has switched to offering DRM-free music, I can now own the tracks purchased from there.

The Kindle's combination of DRM and Whipsernet, allowing it to be always connected, is what allowed Amazon to erase the book from the Kindles that purchased it. If someone transfers a DRM-free copy of 1984 to their Kindle, Amazon has no ability to delete that copy.
Old 07-21-09, 10:52 AM
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Re: Amazon remotely deletes "1984" from Kindles

Reviews for the Kindle on Amazon have been pouring in this last day, almost all of them 1-star reviews, totally bashing the product over this issue and that fact that it can even happen.

Right or wrong, this is really going to hurt Amazon's product.
I'm sure they're stock's taken a big hit over this too.
Old 07-21-09, 11:52 AM
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Re: Amazon remotely deletes "1984" from Kindles

Originally Posted by slop101
Reviews for the Kindle on Amazon have been pouring in this last day, almost all of them 1-star reviews, totally bashing the product over this issue and that fact that it can even happen.

Right or wrong, this is really going to hurt Amazon's product.
I'm sure they're stock's taken a big hit over this too.
That's a fairly easy fact to look up. It's up about $2 since this news broke.

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