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LOTR: ROTK book question (spoilers) [Movie question, actually]

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LOTR: ROTK book question (spoilers) [Movie question, actually]

Old 11-10-03, 11:40 AM
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LOTR:ROTK book question (spoilers)

I heard that the scouring of the shire has been cut out of the film. Some people say this is the whole point of the book. I haven't read the book but will see the movie. What exactly happens in the scouring of the shire? Feel free to use any info you need to to describe it. I don't mind spoilers.
Old 11-10-03, 11:44 AM
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Spoiler:

Basically, Saruman and Grima Wormtongue, who have fled, go to the Shire and burn it and take it over while everyone else is messing with Sauron.

So, even though Frodo does a good thing by carrying the ring, "back home" people suffer.

Frodo, Sam, Gandalf etc. come and drive off Saruman and Grima, but basically the Shire also has permanent effects from this "war".


It can be left out, as it is "consequences" and anti-climactic in comparison to the "ringquest", but many people feel it is important to show that even "home" can be affected by momentous events, and no one is immune.

Old 11-10-03, 11:51 AM
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It's a shame, too. The Scouring is probably my most favorite part of LOTR. I was holding out hope for a long time that it would show up on the ROTK:EE, but that won't happen, either.
Old 11-10-03, 12:41 PM
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I knew before it was even announced that it would be cut out of the film. Cinematically it is the textbook definition of an anti-climax. I enjoyed it in the book but it is completely unsuitable for adaptation--it makes me laugh that there are still Tolkien fans who still speculate it will be in the movie even though we have been told otherwise.
Old 11-10-03, 01:09 PM
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Thanks, Seeker.

Maybe they should have just put a simple text epiloge at the end of the movie so people that only see the movie will know about it.
Old 11-10-03, 01:44 PM
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Probably be in the extended edition. They did do some scenes because in Fellowship extended doesn't Sam see the burning of the Shire in Galadriel's fountain? Or maybe that was Frodo in the movie, but I recall it being there.
Old 11-10-03, 01:54 PM
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Eric F

Good point. The scouring of the shire IS in the movies, but it is shown peripherally in the first movie in Galadriel's pool and seen by Frodo.
Old 11-10-03, 01:58 PM
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Originally posted by Seeker
Spoiler:

Basically, Saruman and Grima Wormtongue, who have fled, go to the Shire and burn it and take it over while everyone else is messing with Sauron.

So, even though Frodo does a good thing by carrying the ring, "back home" people suffer.

Frodo, Sam, Gandalf etc. come and drive off Saruman and Grima, but basically the Shire also has permanent effects from this "war".


It can be left out, as it is "consequences" and anti-climactic in comparison to the "ringquest", but many people feel it is important to show that even "home" can be affected by momentous events, and no one is immune.

I thought it had more to do with being careful not to think that you're safe just because the cause of danger seems to be far away...and that defending your home is something we all need to take responsibility for, as well as the dangers of not thinking for yourself.
Old 11-10-03, 02:04 PM
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Originally posted by Blade
I thought it had more to do with being careful not to think that you're safe just because the cause of danger seems to be far away...and that defending your home is something we all need to take responsibility for, as well as the dangers of not thinking for yourself.
Sure, that too.
Old 11-10-03, 02:52 PM
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That was the one thing I didn't understand about Fellowship (movie)- why Sam wasn't summoned to Galadriel's pool, as well as Frodo.

It was a critical moment in the book, when Sam saw the Shire burning.
Old 11-10-03, 08:51 PM
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Just as an extra............[spoiler/]in the book, Galadriel gave sam a seed and told him to hold on to it.
After the Shire is scoured and all the greenery destroyed, sam plants the seed and an elvish tree grows in the center of Hobbiton and makes everything better. Happy ending for all good little hobbits.[/spoiler]
Old 11-10-03, 08:52 PM
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d'oh, I can't get any icons to appear, so I don't know how to make spoilers or edit my post. Sorry.
Old 11-10-03, 09:04 PM
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Just take the / out of the [spoiler/] and it'll work.
Old 11-11-03, 09:37 AM
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Spoiler:
I thought Galadriel just gave Sam some soil from Caras Galadron so that he would have the richest gardens in all of the Shire. I just read it for a second time and don't remember anything mentioned about seed.
Old 11-11-03, 02:23 PM
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Frodo, Sam, Gandalf etc. come and drive off Saruman and Grima
Gandalf is not involved in the Scouring. He specifically told the hobbits, "...you will need no help. You are grown up now."

Maybe they should have just put a simple text epiloge at the end of the movie so people that only see the movie will know about it.
There will be an epilogue, similar to the prologue of FOTR, with narration by Galadriel.

Probably be in the extended edition. They did do some scenes because in Fellowship extended doesn't Sam see the burning of the Shire in Galadriel's fountain? Or maybe that was Frodo in the movie, but I recall it being there.
The Scouring will not be in the theatrical or extended version because, like Tom Bombadil, it was never even shot. Those images Frodo sees in the mirror are not of the Scouring, but of what will happen to the Shire if Sauron gets the Ring. Notice the orcs running around and there's one shot of Sam in chains.
Old 11-11-03, 02:39 PM
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This thread needs more book!

&nbsp
Old 11-12-03, 10:38 AM
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Book!

The Scouring of the Shire is one of my favorite parts of the story. Kings and wizards and last battles are all fine and good, but ordinary folk need to stand up to ordinary evils.

I first read the LOTR I was 11 or 12. At that age, I was impatient for the action to begin at in the first half of the first volume, and thought the Scouring was anticlimatic. Now I enjoy the slow build of tension at the start, and the housecleaning after all the great doings.
Old 11-30-03, 06:16 PM
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I have to agree that the Scouring of the Shire seemed to be the point of the book. After taking the ring out of the Shire to save it the return to find that the evil came anyway. The Hobbits found they had to save the Shire themselves and that they had the power to do it. Maybe it will be in the extended version.
Greg
Old 11-30-03, 06:21 PM
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Originally posted by gdjohnson
I have to agree that the Scouring of the Shire seemed to be the point of the book. After taking the ring out of the Shire to save it the return to find that the evil came anyway. The Hobbits found they had to save the Shire themselves and that they had the power to do it. Maybe it will be in the extended version.
Greg
Unless there is a "big lie", afraid not.

Last edited by Seeker; 11-30-03 at 09:12 PM.
Old 11-30-03, 08:55 PM
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So you disagree with me and have expressed your beliefs in one confusing sentence, great!
What might this big lie be?
Since scenes of the scouring were made and shown in the pool then there is a good chance Peter Jackson shot the scouring of the shire segment. Also Jackson is known that he re edits the movies for the extended versions based on feed back from fan after the film is released.
Or is it my take on the story itself?
Greg
Old 11-30-03, 09:11 PM
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Jackson said he did NOT film the scouring of the shire (other than the scene in the pool).

So, unless he is lying, (i.e. "the big lie"), it won't be in ROTK theatrical or EE....


I wish it was, but "afraid not".
Old 11-30-03, 10:20 PM
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Well if that's the case I am disappointed. I do feel Tolkien put the Scouring of the Shire for a very strong reason. Having been involved in both world wars he saw Germany as the defeted evil that rose again (Sauron). Was Saruman Russia and the communist? They are allies who had signed a pact with Hitler before the war and after the war England was over run with communists, open & spys. Were the Elves America? He spoke of the alliance during the first conflict how the Elves came to Helms deep when things were darkest. There are books on the sybolism of Tolkiens writings and I'm not an expert so I can just enjoy them as best I can. I'll buy the movie regardless, I've been very happy with the first 2.
Greg
Old 12-01-03, 09:55 AM
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Originally posted by gdjohnson
Well if that's the case I am disappointed. I do feel Tolkien put the Scouring of the Shire for a very strong reason. Having been involved in both world wars he saw Germany as the defeted evil that rose again (Sauron). Was Saruman Russia and the communist? They are allies who had signed a pact with Hitler before the war and after the war England was over run with communists, open & spys. Were the Elves America? He spoke of the alliance during the first conflict how the Elves came to Helms deep when things were darkest. There are books on the sybolism of Tolkiens writings and I'm not an expert so I can just enjoy them as best I can. I'll buy the movie regardless, I've been very happy with the first 2.
Greg
'

Mapping the Lord of the Rings to World War II is like mapping the Wizard of Oz to the debate over the gold standard. It can be done, but it's not as pretty a fit as it appears at first, and it's certainly not the author's intention.
Old 12-01-03, 07:05 PM
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Calling caligulathegod -- since you have an electronic version, can you please cut and paste the paragraph from the introduction where Tolkein specifically says that LOTR is not an allegory on WWII?
Old 12-01-03, 09:39 PM
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The two Hobbits that went to Treebeard's home and drank his liquid also grew taller than normal Hobbits right? This made them brave enough to kick ass in the Shire didn't it?

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