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**SPOILERS** Harry Potter & the Order of the Phoenix [open discussion]

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**SPOILERS** Harry Potter & the Order of the Phoenix [open discussion]

Old 06-26-03, 07:57 AM
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Originally posted by Tom Banjo
Why is Harry called a mud-blood in this book, if both of his parents were wizards?
Not really a spoiler for HP5...

Harrys Grandparents (on his mothers side) were muggles, which (for the average prejusticed) DE is enough to call him a mudblood.
Old 06-26-03, 10:39 AM
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This is what I posted in the other thread on Harry's mudbloodedness... I think its an important distinction.

I don't think Harry was ever called a mudblood. I know he was called a halfblood, which he is (and everyone technically is as Hagrid explains in the 2nd book, there has been much interbreeding with muggles or else wizards would have died out). A mudblood is a witch/wizard born of muggle parents; they have no wizard heritage (or at least not within a few generations). A halfblood is just someone who has muggle ancestry within a few generations. Hermione is a mudblood since her parents are both muggles. Harry is half blood since his mother was a mudblood and his father was (I'm pretty sure) a pureblood.
Old 06-26-03, 10:40 AM
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For those who have now read the book, or who just don't mind seeing plot discussion out in the open - i.e. without the juicy bits having been blacked out - please feel free to post here.

This thread bears the label "spoilers" and "open discussion" so, if anyone is tempted to complain because reading here has spoiled the book for them, please reconsider!



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Old 06-26-03, 11:14 AM
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Regarding Harry's anger issues, didn't anyone else get the impression that despite the normal teenage angst, that Harry's anger might be so extreme due to being infulenced by Voldemort? I felt that he was so quick to get angry because of his link with Voldemort. That the dark feelings and thoughts of Voldemort were causing a general feeling of anger in Harry that made it difficult if not impossible to empty his mind of emotions. Just a thought.
Old 06-26-03, 11:52 AM
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Wow, I just finished this last night and I have to say it might be my favorite book in the series. Yeah, it's awfully long, but for me that doesn't matter if it's an enjoyable read. Reading Dumbledore throw down with Voldemore at the end made it all worthwhile, and the death of Sirius (although I have hope he'll return - didn't see a body at all) was quite touching. I felt like Harry was a much more believable character here than ever before, especially with his "post traumatic stress syndrome" if you would. It makes a lot of sense that all he's gone through in the first four books would mark him in some way, and Rowling did a good job of portraying that. Sure, he yells a lot, but so do most teenagers as I recall...
Old 06-26-03, 12:19 PM
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I can't wait for the next two books. I hope that when Harry returns in the next book that he gets serious and starts training for his inevitable confrontation with Voldemort. I mean, he obviously has much to learn and it would be disappointing if Harry kills him by luck. The final fight should be one of skill and strength.

I can just see him turning into a complete badass who will be able to thwart Draco Malfoy's attempts to kill him with a simple flick of his wand. I do think Harry will be much more mature and haunted when he returns.
Old 06-26-03, 12:25 PM
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Yay open discussion!

What are your favorite parts of the book?

Mine are:
- The entrance and introduction of The Order into #4 Privet Drive
- Dumbledore's Army in training
- Dumbledore's escape
- Fred and George's escape and legacy
- Entry into the Department of Mysteries
- Dumbledore to the rescue in the Veil Room
- Dumbledore vs Voldy
- Harry giving the cryptic message to Snape in Umbridge's office
- Sirius and Severus
- O.W.L.s
- McGonagall telling Peeves that it "unscrews the other way"
- STUBEFY!
Old 06-26-03, 03:44 PM
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Originally posted by FreshOne
I don't think Harry was ever called a mudblood. I know he was called a halfblood, which he is (and everyone technically is as Hagrid explains in the 2nd book, there has been much interbreeding with muggles or else wizards would have died out). ...
I just edited my own post in that thread as well. I think you're right. A mudblood is someone whose parents are both muggles. Harry and Voldermort are just half breeds. But I don't think that Hagrid meant to say that everyone was a half-blood, just that there weren't hardly anymore pure-bloods.

RE: Harry's anger...it did get a bit tedious, didn't it? Still, you have to admit that it's a pretty good description of how a lot of teenagers act. I think it's just that a lot of us hope that Harry would have been able to rise above that. But it is amazing how well Rowling captured the incredible self-centeredness of kids. Which is something many of us adults still need to learn as well, of course.
Old 06-26-03, 03:49 PM
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Even though Harry does "D" quality work in his potions class, will he get an "O" on his O.W.L.s without Snape hovering over him? I can't imagine that Harry will be able to escape Snape's N.E.W.T. potions class (though I guess Snape could still be teaching Harry occlumency).

Does anyone else think that Harry will be the Defense agains the Dark Arts teacher that is able to break the "jinx" on the job?
Old 06-26-03, 03:56 PM
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Originally posted by sherm42
I can't wait for the next two books. I hope that when Harry returns in the next book that he gets serious and starts training for his inevitable confrontation with Voldemort. I mean, he obviously has much to learn and it would be disappointing if Harry kills him by luck. The final fight should be one of skill and strength.

I can just see him turning into a complete badass who will be able to thwart Draco Malfoy's attempts to kill him with a simple flick of his wand. I do think Harry will be much more mature and haunted when he returns.
Voldermort gives Dumbledore a run for his money. I don't think there's any way Harry's going to become skilled enough in just two years to be able to face Voldermort one on one.

The prophecy does bring up an interesting new twist to Harry's thought process though, in that now he thinks he has to murder Voldermort. It says, essentially, that one of them will have to kill the other, but that doesn't necessarily have to mean they have to commit murder. If V attacks HP (or even vice versa), and HP kills V in self-defense, that's not really murder. If anything, his desire to become an Auror should be the best preperation possible for him.

A couple other thoughts I had about the book...I really liked what JKR did with Harry's dad. She really made him out to be quite a jerk really. Given Harry's past, it's understandable how this hit home so hard. It seems to follow that his father changed, but it's interesting that Lupin and Sirius didn't really emphasize that when Harry confronted them about it (not that they had much time). I wonder if this will be picked up on in the next book as it seemed like he got over it rather quickly. Then you also have to wonder how this will affect his relationship with Snape.

I also want to know what happenned with the Houses. Who won? Did what McGonagall did with the points put Gryffindor in the lead?

Also, why no mention of Percy and the rest of the family at the end of the book? With such a dramatic break from the family, you have to wonder how they'll ever patch things up. Such self-important characters can often hide very weak people, so I really wonder if it's possible that Percy could end up going over to Voldermort's side because he thought he had no where else to go....
Old 06-26-03, 03:58 PM
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Originally posted by silentbob007
Does anyone else think that Harry will be the Defense agains the Dark Arts teacher that is able to break the "jinx" on the job?
Yes! I was thinking the same thing (though not about the job jinx).

On the one hand, it seems incredible that they would hire a student...on the other, after hiring Lockheart, a werewolf and a crazy Auror, it's hard to put anything past Dumbledore.
Old 06-26-03, 04:02 PM
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Ok, last post for a bit.

Is anyone else surprised that Dumbledore asked Firenze to become the temporary Divination teacher? He must have known that it would have upset the rest of the centaurs as much as it did.

I'm guessing he's going to play a much larger role in the rest of the story.
Old 06-26-03, 05:47 PM
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Originally posted by Blade
Voldermort gives Dumbledore a run for his money. I don't think there's any way Harry's going to become skilled enough in just two years to be able to face Voldermort one on one.

The prophecy does bring up an interesting new twist to Harry's thought process though, in that now he thinks he has to murder Voldermort. It says, essentially, that one of them will have to kill the other, but that doesn't necessarily have to mean they have to commit murder. If V attacks HP (or even vice versa), and HP kills V in self-defense, that's not really murder. If anything, his desire to become an Auror should be the best preperation possible for him.
Like I was saying, it would be a big letdown if Harry doesn't show some real skill against Voldemort in the final confrontation. I don't want to see him just running around being chased for most of the fight. Don't forget that Harry is supposed to be Voldemort's equal in terms of power which could be equal to or slightly greater than even Dumbledore's. I just hope Harry taps into that power and learns to use it a bit.
Old 06-26-03, 09:16 PM
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It took some time after finishing the book to be sure that I liked it. Sirius was the last person that I wanted to lose, but as he grew closer to Harry it seemed to get more apparent that he wouldn't last. But I can see how it can be used to drive Harry in the last two books.

Some of my favorite parts were:
Harry finding out about Mrs. Figg being a squib.
Petunia getting a howler.
All of Fred and George's creations (they must be really good wizards to make all that stuff). Their escape was wonderful and I was thrilled that Peeves took up where they left off.
The DA was really cool, I hope they continue it.
Seeing Neville improve was great. It was interesting to find out that the propesy could have been for either him or Harry- it makes me wonder if V had attacked Neville instead of Harry when they were babies, would it have had the same affect. All he did was mark one as an equal, so would attcking Neville had marked him instead?
Dumbledore calling V Tom during their fight was cool, I'm sure it was annoying for V. And the Daily Prophet article with Fudge calling him Lord Thingy was funny.

The only part that made me cry was when Neville took the bubble gum wrapper from his mom and put it in his pocket. I hope that Neville continues to improve (and hopefully having his own wand will help with that).
Old 06-26-03, 11:44 PM
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sherm42,

Don't get me wrong, I think it would be cool too, but I don't think it's likely. Voldermort's got decades of training on Harry. Think of the quality of the duel between Dumbledore and Voldermort, or even the fighting between the Death Eaters and Sirius and company. That's pretty far beyond even Harry's current capabilities.
Don't forget that Harry is supposed to be Voldemort's equal in terms of power which could be equal to or slightly greater than even Dumbledore's.
This is a good point though. I'm thinking it could be something like what happenned when Voldermort and Harry faced off at the end of Goblet.
Originally posted by hotaru_san
it makes me wonder if V had attacked Neville instead of Harry when they were babies, would it have had the same affect. All he did was mark one as an equal, so would attcking Neville had marked him instead?
They seem pretty sure that it was Harry's mom's sacrifice that spared Harry's life. Since both of Neville's parents had already been attacked by Voldermort, it seems likely his curse would have killed Neville. But the whole thing does make you wonder...I thought it was a bit of a shame that Neville didn't fare a little better in the final fight, but then there are 2 books left.
Old 06-27-03, 12:18 AM
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Originally posted by Blade
They seem pretty sure that it was Harry's mom's sacrifice that spared Harry's life. Since both of Neville's parents had already been attacked by Voldermort, it seems likely his curse would have killed Neville. But the whole thing does make you wonder...I thought it was a bit of a shame that Neville didn't fare a little better in the final fight, but then there are 2 books left.
Neville's mother might have sacrificed herself too, she was an auror so she must have been brave. Neville's parents were not attacked until after V's downfall (remember the trial Harry watched with Crouch Jr in the pensive was for their torture). There are a lot of other factors involved, but I think it's an interesting idea.

Neville made a lot of progress for one book, I hope he'll continue to gain confidence in the next two. It would be wonderful if he could use his knowledge of herbology to find some kind of cure for his parents.
Old 06-27-03, 09:04 AM
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Originally posted by silentbob007
Does anyone else think that Harry will be the Defense agains the Dark Arts teacher that is able to break the "jinx" on the job?
Yes. Despite his current ambitions, I suspect he will end up as the Defense Against Dark Arts Teacher (Won't that piss off Snape!) and eventually Headmaster of Hogwarts.

Neville made a lot of progress for one book, I hope he'll continue to gain confidence in the next two.
I think Neville is a late bloomer and will eventually be very powerful. I suspect he will play a large role in the last battle.
Old 06-27-03, 09:38 AM
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Originally posted by Easy
Yes. Despite his current ambitions, I suspect he will end up as the Defense Against Dark Arts Teacher (Won't that piss off Snape!) and eventually Headmaster of Hogwarts.
But Trewlany predicted that he'd be minister of magic (and have 12 kids).

I would rather see him be an auror first and maybe teach after he's been out of school for a bit (although we probably wouldn't get to see that in the book). It does seem like he makes a great teacher, but I think it would probably be a good idea for him to work outside of Hogwarts first. Either way, it would be nice to see him be the lasting Defense teacher.
Old 06-27-03, 10:49 AM
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The thought of Harry as the Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher immediately came to my mind also. The only problem with it that I see is that If there are seven years of students, and at most two houses per class, he'd have to teach at least 14 classes per week (or 28 if they have 2 sessions per week). I don't know if he'd have time for that.

I think after he's done with school, though, he'll definitely be a teacher at Hogwarts.
Old 06-27-03, 10:58 AM
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Well, since she has stated she is only writing 7 books, do you think all this speculation on what he becomes is pointless? Or will book 7 give you his life after Hogwarts too?
Old 06-27-03, 11:05 AM
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I'm sure they aren't going to end it with the three of them saying "Well I don't know what I'm going to do now. Bye." We'll at least hear what their future plans are.
Old 06-27-03, 11:12 AM
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Originally posted by Blade
If anything, his desire to become an Auror should be the best preperation possible for him.
While they must have said somewhere in the books, I've forgotten what it is. What is an Auror? What is their power?
Old 06-27-03, 11:19 AM
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Originally posted by resinrats
While they must have said somewhere in the books, I've forgotten what it is. What is an Auror? What is their power?
An Auror is a hunter of Dark Wizards and Witches.
Old 06-27-03, 11:26 AM
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I guess we're gonna have to wait until the next book to find out how they did on their O.W.L.s. I thought they said they would get the results back before the summer, but I guess we'll have to wait.
Old 06-27-03, 11:29 AM
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Nope, they were told that they'll get the results back via owl some time in July.

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