Nefarious

Don't forget they have potions w/ the Slytherins. Snape is a spy for Dumbledore. If Draco perceived that Snape was at all friendly towards Harry his father would end up knowing and on and on. I think it's important for Harry to really feel he dislikes him. Otherwise Harry might seem to lax and make Draco suspicious. The point where Draco burst in on Harry's occlumency lessons is an example. It had to quickly be explained away as a sort of punishment for Potter. I think it's a mixture of a lot of things overall and I don't doubt Snape dislikes Harry...but he also has his own hide to protect.

Bandoman

I haven't read this entire thread, so if someone already said this I apologize.

I wonder whether Rowling is setting the story up so that Harry dies when he eventually fights and kills Voldemort. Each book becomes darker, and she has shown that she isn't afriad to kill off a main character. If she really wants to stop at 7 books (which she has affirmed time and again), this would be a sure-fire way to accomplish it.

Neville could become the new Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher. Hermione could be Hogwarts' headmistress. Maybe there will be some new magical device introduced in the last two books whereby Harry's personality and knowledge are preserved so that Ron and Hermione can seek his advise from time to time (similar to the portraits of the former Hogwarts headmasters in Dumbledore's office).

The death of Harry may be a long shot, but I wouldn't be terribly surprised if it happened.


Also, when Harry defeats Voldemort, I don't think it will be because he is a stronger/more skillful magical duelist. There will be a pitch battle between Harry and Voldemort (because Voldemort wants to kill Harry, and Harry believes, due to the prophecy, that he has to fight and kill Voldemort). Ron and/or Hermione will try to jump in to help Harry. Harry will sacrifice his own safety to save them (here is where Rowling decides whether or not to kill off Harry). Just as Harry's mother saved him through love and self-sacrifice, it will be Harry's love and self-sacrifice, so anathema to Voldemort, which will defeat V. due to he and Harry's close mind connection.

CloudsMountain

I doubt that Harry will be the one to end up dying, but of course, i could be wrong. I could see either Ron or Hermione dying before him. Plus, I don't think such a big deal would be made about him if he was defeated by Voldemort.

I also have a question about Harry and the Mardurer's Map. I don't remember him getting it back in Goblet of Fire after Moody took it. But sure enough, he had it in OotP. How did he get it back?

Nefarious

That's been listed as one of the five inconsistencies. It doesn't say how he did. We know he ended GOF w/o it and then had it for OOTP.

I found it strange he used it at the first official DA session and helped people leave. But then didn't use it at the last one when Dobby warned him Umbridge was out and about. They could have used it to discern exactly where everyone was.

sherm42

I just figured that Dumbledore gave it back to Harry. He does seem to love giving Harry the tools he needs to get into trouble. He did give Harry the Invisibility Cloak. If he really wanted Harry to stay out of trouble, he would have waited until Harry graduated before giving him the cloak.

Jackskeleton

Yeah, You would figure that since they were in moody's office last book when finding moody in the case, that harry would get his map back.

I highly highly doubt that Harry will die in the end. these are kids books and I'm sure having the character die in book seven is just one way to have your kids have long theropy seasons in the long run. In any case, I hope ron or Hermione don't end up dead since Harry has already lost to many folks and seems very Angst about it all. the whole book just showed how much tension was put in through it all. Not a good thing for Harry or for the readers getting annoyed at harry's Angst throughout the book at random people.

I didn't like Sirus' death simply because it's been built up that Harry has some one left in the world that he can call family. You cheered for Sirus to make it through book 3 and book 4 and then in book 5 he's dead. and not even the most discriptive death if you ask me. He just sort of died.. nothing really to easy to figure out other then we see that he's dead now.. I'm glad that cho has been kicked to the curb and I'm one of those who thinks Ginny and Harry should have hit it off. Hopefully in the next book.

I wanted more of Lupin though and some more hagrid. seemed like a lot of loose ends were left up in the air at the end of the book. Could have used another chapter or two if you ask me.

PalmerJoss

After some thinking I believe that Sirius isn't dead and this is why: we never were really told for sure that he's dead, nor did we find out what was behind that veil. I'm betting that Sirius will be back in one form or another.

hgar78

plus luna did allude to this possibility when she told harry that they really weren't dead. when she reminded him that they could hear them talking. i think the veil will be further explained later and that it might be some sort of 'in limbo' deal.

btw, i think he IS dead simply because lupin, dumbledore and hagrid all confirmed it. there must be an explanation to the veil that led them to be certain of his death, doncha think?

sherm42

I don't see that any explanation is really needed for the veil. It was obviously some kind of dangerous one way doorway to death that actualy enticed all those around it to enter. It seems to me that it was in the Department of Mysteries because it was a dangerous artifact that needed to be kept away from people. When Luna said she could hear them talk, I think she was simply stating that there is something after death and she could hear the dead speaking to her. This knowledge is what made Harry feel better.

There is no way Sirius is coming back. What kind of lesson would that really teach readers? J.K. Rowling has stated that she wanted the death to be quick and unexpected without a long "deathbed" sequence to teach readers about the unexpectedness of death.

CloudsMountain

Yeah, I think Sirius coming back would cheat the readers, really. There's already been one person that has been able to come back after supposedly being killed, I think if another character did it too, then it'd trick the readers into thinking that there are ways for wizards to avoid being killed.

I think Sirius' death was perfect in that the fact it was so quick, and it tricked readers (at least me) into thinking that he hadn't really died at first.

fuzzbox

I've been saying that for a while- though a friend of mine says that JKR denies it.

But think about it- Voldemort=Hitler, in that he's against anyone with non-pure blood, against mixing of races, etc. The Malfoy family is certainly the ideal Aryan family. The deatheaters seem to be loyal to V to the end, even if they don't really know what the end is- I could go on and on. Even where in OotP where Harry blurts out that Voldemort was a half-breed too- It's been an ongoing rumour for years that one of Hitler's Grandomthers (maybe) was actually Jewish.

Anyways, that's just my 2 cents...

-jason

hotaru_san

I agree.

There is a very important lesson for Harry to learn.

The veil is a symbol of death, Sirius is dead. Maybe at some point Harry will us the veil to speak to Sirius but I do not think that a living Sirius will ever show up again.

When I first finished the book I was pretty upset about the nature of Sirius's death but now I think that it makes sense, assuming that it turns out in later books to have lead to some important learning in Harry's life.

suziq999

Ah, just finished last night: my questions/thoughs -

I really think the relationship between Harry and Snape needs to deepen. Snape is the coolest character, and one of the only people Harry should rely on- even though he doesn't really know that yet. I think somehow they each will end up setting aside their differences and depending on one another.

I totally think Ron and Hermione will get it on, and Harry and Ginny.

As far as Sirius is concerned, maybe Harry will eventually be able to 'talk' to Sirius through the veil... kind of like the mirror where he could see his parents, he could talk to Sirius - kind of ala Star Wars.

And I assume the giants will be back in the next book? We know Voldemort has a whole bunch under his control... perhaps the bad guys will have the giants, and somehow, the good guys will get the centaurs to team up with them?

And what are the other 4 inconsistencies besides the map?

Nefarious

I'm not sure about the veil. It didn't seem safe to be around. It sort of tranced Harry and a couple of the others towards it. Doesn't seem like he could safely use it if it would warp him into wanting to go inside it.

other 5 inconsistincies as taken from www.mugglenet.com

1. Harry sees Thestrals, beasts visible to those who have seen a death, for the first time - yet baby Harry saw his mum being killed.
(JKR's response: You can't see them until the death "sinks in.")

2. Harry uses the Marauders Map - which was confiscated in the last book.

3. Second-year Dennis Creevey goes to the Hogs Head - but pupils younger than third year are not allowed out of school in term time.

4. Before a Quidditch match, Harry is relieved it is cloudy as he won't have the sun in his eyes - but moments later the stadium is in "dazzling sunlight".

5. Sirius says Harry's dad, James, was never a prefect - but in an earlier book, Hagrid told Harry his father was head boy.

Blade

I don't know...those don't seem that inconsistent...

1. Harry was a baby, and any number of things could have prevented him from seeing his mother's death, most likely the crib he was sleeping in.

2. As mentioned previously, Dumbledore has given Harry is Invisible Cloak back. Since the map belonged to his father and friends, it only makes sense that it would be given back to Harry. Dumbledore knows Harry wouldn't abuse it. That this wasn't specifically mentioned or explained is an oversight though.

3. 2nd years...it's possible he snuck out, but that is pretty glaring.

4. Weather can change...awkward, but not unforgiveable.

5. I don't think you have to be a Prefect to be a Head Boy, do you?

Regarding the Veil...it's odd the way it was set up as part of an arena. Is it possible the wizarding world used it for their worst criminals before they set up Azkaban? Probably, it was just a creation by a really bad wizard.

hotaru_san

All but #3 can be explained away as Blade said.


I am willing to believe that the death of his mother could not truely be understood by baby Harry (and that he may have only seen the green light anyway) but why didn't he see the Thestrals on the trip home the previous year? I can't believe that Cedric's death really hadn't sunk in at all by the end of term.

Canis Firebrand

Well.. just finished the book today and read through this thread that I had been avoiding like the plague until I finished.

Overall a very good book.. I like each book better then the previous... Hopfully the 6th and 7th continue to be better then their predecesor.

On the future of Harry after book 7, I think it will be interesting to see what happens.
I was speaking with a co-worker about that subject and I am of the mind that she will not kill off Harry at the end of book 7. Too many people would love to see what becomes of him after school.
My thoughts are that after the battle with V, Harry might become incapacitated, perhaps like Nevilles parents. Since he will be with in a coma or without their memories and feeble she won't need to write about him. Perhaps, in the future when she wants to continue on, a cure or potion or something can help restore Harry and she could write a bit about his life then.
I know I am not looking forward to reading book 7 because I'd love to see how Harry fares. Will be be an Auror, teacher, ministy member, eventual headmaster?
Too many unanserwed questions will be at the end of that book.

But still, I am thankful for the books thus far.
I;m still letting everything soak in at this point.

Blade

Maybe this is why some people still think I'm a mod...

hotaru_san

oops sorry about that

Ken2

Sorry, but I gotta agree with a few others in this thread that this book was a huge disappointment. Harry's anger problem, although natural at that age was over played. I work with 13-15 year olds every day, many who come with a lot of baggage, but none of them act as an A-hole like he does. Okay, I can see him getting mad once in a while, but he was practically yelling in the whole book. If I were Ron and Hermione I wouldn've left his sorry ass behind. I have to go with the theory that Voldemort's connection to him is feeding him some of his anger.

I liked the wizard battle in the end... And I'm curious where Dumbledore was after he left Hogwarts. He kicks butt and I hope he stays around till the end.

Could Black's mother move from picture to picture and tell some Death Eaters what was going on in her house?

I didn't like the lack of quidditch which I suppose may be over played, but it is still a cool game. Who won the house cup?

And... Was it just me or was the ending lacking something... After the first four books I was expecting some type of twist or something to happen. Mr. Weasley is really under someone's curse or something like that... But there was no twist at all. That's what I've been trying to figure out in every book, but this one left me with nothing. At least book one had that Snape/Quirrell thing, 2 had the Tom Riddle/Ginny thing, 3 had the Black is a good guy thing and 4 had the Moody thing...

Well maybe it was just me, but I didn't care for this book as much as 3 & 4.

Blade

Only if she had another portrait she could move into.

To me the twist in this book was, "what is Voldermort up to?" and the real twist is a display of how much trouble he can cause by simply being back in the world and not really doing anything at all. It was an excellent portrayal of the evil that can happen when good wizards refuse to say something.

Ken2

Blade, I guess no more Imax movies for you guys...

Bandoman

I didn't mind the lack of Quidditch. Griffindor won the house cup by beating Ravenclaw in the match that Harry and Hermione missed when they went with Hagrid to meet Grawp.

Kal-El

I hated that! Arrrgh! Not only did we miss how Ron redeemed himself in Quidditch, but it was cuz we had to meet the most boring character ever created by JKR in Grawp. And instead of exciting Quidditch, we get Hagrid's supreme stupidity. Hated that part. Hated it.

Jeremy517

Hagrid was just a complete waste in this book, unless she's planning on using Grawp meaningfully in book six or seven.

Hagrawp annoyed me this book.