The Works of Frank Herbert
 

Ok, this'll probably be a long post since I feel like making notes on all the books. None of these will be in-depth reviews, but I can write those on an individual basis for anyone who's interested. If any books don't show up on this list, it's because I don't have them, or haven't gotten around to reading them yet. Admittedly some of these marks may be higher than what others would rate them, given my appreciation of Herbert.

Frank Herbert:

Dune saga: Dune, Dune Messiah, Children of Dune, God Emperor of Dune, Heretics of Dune, Chapterhouse Dune.

Imagine a series of books that combines the most intricate of medieval/fantasy court intrigues with an empire that spans star systems. The six books of the series cover a period approximately 16,000 years. Control of the galaxy revolves around control of a single desolate desert planet -- Arrakis -- better known as Dune. The planet itself is the catalyst connecting the books together, while people age and die, wars rage, empires rise and fall, the planet remains -- though undergoing a remarkable ecological evolution change in the process. -- Incidentally it's worth noting that the Dune saga is the greatest Science Fiction series ever created (it blows Asimov's Foundation out of the water).

Overall, this series is very well written. The first three books: Dune (5/5), Dune Messiah (4.5/5), and Children of Dune (5/5) are all very well written, and are considered by most to be far superior to the last three. God Emperor of Dune (3/5) is the weakest of the 6 in my opinion. Coming as it were in the middle of the series between a connected set of three books - 6000 years later, and a set of two books at the end -- 10000 years after. Heretics of Dune (4.5/5) and Chapterhouse Dune (4.5/5) are both very well written as well, bringing in a completely new cast of characters on an evolving planet, fighting a brand new enemy from beyond the galaxy. The only real weakness is the fact that Herbert died before he could properly complete writing and editing Chapterhouse Dune, so the ending is a little off-kilter and doesn't make as much sense as could be hoped.

Another note: A new pre-quel trilogy has just been completed by Herbert's son, Brian Herbert (also a great author), and Kevin J. Anderson. Dune: House Atreides, Dune: House Harkonnen, Dune: House Corrino (haven't read the last one yet). While devoid of most of the commentary that makes Herbert's original work especially memorable, they provide an excellent story nonetheless.

Also notable is the Dune Encyclopedia - compiled by Professor Willis McNelly in 1984 (IIRC). There was only a single printing and it now goes for a pretty penny on Ebay -- think I paid about $60-70 for mine. Most of it is based purely on McNelly's own imagination based off of tiny references here and there in the books, giving McNelly free artistic license to imagine things as he pleases. Even so, they provide some interesting descriptions for things that are only given little to no real time in the books.

Herbert's other works - in no particular order:

The Book of Frank Herbert -- short stories, good stuff. (5/5) Contains the following stories: Seed Stock*, The Nothing, Rat Race*, Gambling Device, Looking for Something?, The Gone Dogs, Passage for Piano*, Encounter in a Lonely Place, Operation Syndrome, Occupation Force. *= also appears in “Eye”.

The Worlds of Frank Herbert -- short stories, good stuff. (5/5) Contains the following stories: The Tactful Saboteur* (first appearance of Jorj X. McKie and the Bureau of Sabotage), By the Book*, Committee of the Whole, Mating Call, Escape Felicity, The GM Effect, The Featherbedders, Old Rambling House, A-W-F Unlimited. *= also appears in “Eye”.

Eye -- (5/5) short stories. Great stuff. The cover contains my ideal representation of a Fremen. Also contains a nice collection of Dune artwork. Contains the following stories: Rat Race, Dragon in the Sea (early short story version of “Under Pressure”), Cease Fire, A Matter of Traces, Try to Remember, The Tactful Saboteur, The Road to Dune, By the Book, Seed Stock, Murder Will In, Passage for Piano, Death of a City, Frogs and Scientists.

The Green Brain -- ecological -- (4/5) Mankind in an effort to purify the planet has exterminated nearly every insect on the planet. The last stronghold is a sentient mass in the Amazon jungle, which still resists man's approach.

Whipping Star -- sociology -- (5/5) alien culture vs human culture. What makes humans what they are? This is discussed by way of a kidnapped sentient star. Features the Bureau of Sabotage and Jorj X. McKie.

Destination Void -- Artificial Intelligence -- (5/5) A human crew sent out to search for a habitable planet discover the true purpose of their mission. A good part of The Jesus Incident was shares/was inspired by part of this story.

The Dosadi Experiment -- sociology -- (5/5). An experiment in overpopulation and it's consequences. Chronological sequel to Whipping Star. Featuring Saboteur Extraordinaire Jorj X. Mckie.

Direct Descent -- librarians -- (2.5/5). About the weakest of Herbert's works that I've come across so far. Also the only one that's completely illustrated. Rather odd story about Earth as an intergalactic library invaded by an empire. I probably need to read it again, but I wasn't particularly impressed at all.

The Heaven Makers -- straight-up scifi -- (3.5/5) Aliens arrived on Earth thousands of years ago and make blockbuster movies for their people by filming events on the planet. However, sales have been down lately so they need to whip up some disasters to sell tickets. An interesting idea, but it could have been better carried out.

Hellstrom's Hive -- genetic engineering -- (5/5) A government agency stumbles over a bizarre "hive" of people under the ground in California. Really hard to summarize it, suffice to say -- think human hive-mind.

The Santaroga Barrier -- pharmacology -- (4/5). Why is there no contact between the town of Santaroga and the outside world? What keeps them separate? Pretty interesting.

The Eyes of Heisenberg -- genetic engineering -- (5/5) In the future, a race of genetically engineered supermen possess immortality, ruling over the neutered human drones who live artificially shortened lives, until someone turns the tables.

The White Plague -- genetic engineering -- (5/5) After his wife is killed by the IRA, an American scientist creates and releases a virus (in Ireland) that is extremely contagious and kills only women. Predictably it spreads beyond Ireland and soon there is a veritable dearth of women worldwide.

Under Pressure -- psychology -- (5/5) During a future war, specialized submarines are used for pumping and transporting oil underwater, but something has gone wrong and subs are starting to disappear. Are there moles in the forces? A psychologist is sent undercover to investigate the crews and motives for such activity. Very, very good. A shortened, earlier version of this is included in Eye.

Soul Catcher -- anthropology -- (4/5) culture clash between a Native American and the culture of his oppressors. Does bring up some good points about the forced abandonment of many native customs and whatnot.

The God Makers -- sociology -- (5/5) Interesting story about humans approaching various cultures and attempting to communicate with them. Some really interesting points -- I don't really know how valid they are given that we've never met a completely alien species, but cool nonetheless -- on how to distinguish whether a people is warlike or peaceful based on building types, roads, etc.

Written with Bill Ransom:
The Pandora Trilogy:

The Jesus Incident – ecology – (4.5/5) Expands on some ideas brought up in Destination: Void. A ship/computer attains consciousness and proceeds to attain a god-complex. Interesting so far. Also some attempts to communicate with sentient kelp on the planet Pandora, resulting in a good study of the codependence and symbiosis between species.

The Lazarus Effect -- (5/5) -- I read this back in high school but the other books from the trilogy weren't accessible. Many years after the first book, people on Pandora are now split, some living on the surface of the planet-covering sea, while others live on the ocean floor. There is a waterworld like attempt to search for/create dry land.

The Ascension Factor -- Haven't read yet.

Written with son Brian Herbert -- Man of Two Worlds -- I haven't read it yet either.

I think beyond these, there are a few other books I have yet to get my hands on. Feel free to ask questions about any of these, and I'll try to answer.


Tuan Jim

It's been over a decade since I read the last 2 Dune books (Heretics and Chapterhouse), but my impression was that Herbert was entering that "dirty old man" writer's stage (Heinlein was the same way with his last book or two (To Sail Beyond The Sunset). I still chuckle over the name/concept of the "Honored Matres". :)

I do remember thoroughly enjoying the 1st 3 Dune books, and yes, that 4th Dune book was flar out bizarre.

I tried his other short sci-fi books, but none of them did much for me (unlike the short stuff that Asimov put out).

Patman you and I agree on the "Dirty Old Man" thing!!! I noticed that in his last few books even as far back as "God Emperor" he was obsessed with weird sex and giant penises(Leto's worm form)

He was sounding more like CLIVE BARKER and less like Herbert rotfl

What's this about the Honored Matres? I don't get it. Maybe it's just my virgin mind.

I do find Herberts stuff in general (even his short stories) to be superior to anything I've read by Asimov. My other favorite SF writer is Ray Bradbury -- best short stories.

Tuan Jim

"Honored Matres" Bwa-hahahahahahaha! The concept is still hilarious to me to this day.

I'm thinking of Matre = mother, but maybe that's mater = mother. What the heck are you thinking about?

Tuan Jim

I may be completely off here, but my guess is that they mean Honored Matress (aka something you sleep and screw on).

Matre = boffer.

I love the first three books. God Emperor was a chore to get through. Heretics was ok. I have not finished Chapterhouse. I think Herbert got waaaaaaaaaay out there on the last 3 books.

I've read all 6, and the first 2 are wonderful.... but they start into a slow decline after that.

Dune question
 

Can anyone tell me what happened at the end of ChapterHouse....I've read the whole original series three times but I never quite understood what was going at the end of the last book....Idaho sees these old people in a garden and they see him, but what does that mean?

Part of the problem was that Herbert died before finishing Chapterhouse and so Brian his son just compiled his remaining notes and tried to wrap the whole thing up, IIRC. Doesn't make as much sense as I'd like but the general story is pretty interesting.

Patman and Robo, I'm rereading the Lazarus Effect after reading the Jesus Incident (first 2 books of the trilogy he co-authored with Bill Ransom -- still haven't read The Ascension Factor. That'll come next), and I'm seeing some of what you're mentioning I guess. I don't think I picked up on it much the first time, but it's there, and a little disappointing really.

Still, don't let it ruin your enjoyment of his other great works: ie. The Dosadi Experiment, Eye, Whipping Star, Under Pressure, The God Makers, The Eyes of Heisenberg, etc.

Tuan Jim

I quit reading, "The Ascension Factor" pretty quickly. I think that it is just Bill Ransom. And I didn't care too much for "The Lazarus Effect" either. I loved "Destination: Void" so much that I tried to read the rest. I guess "The Jesus Incident" was pretty good, but I'm not sure if I got the religious significance - I'd have to read it again, and I just don't have the time

Was it this dirty old man factor or something else?

Man, Destination: Void was really great. That was a very interesting idea, and the plot twist at the end was pretty wild.

"Hellstrom's Hive" was the only other book I recall reading that had some rather pathetic sexual overtones. The vast majority of his other work is top notch.

Tuan Jim

no, it wasn't the dirty old man stuff, I like that....Heinlein was great at it....in "To Sail Beyond the Sunset" everyone was sleeping with everyone else - gender and relation irrelevant. It was just that the writing started to sound stiff and boring. There is a fluency that the language of a story has to have, and those second two books in that series just didn't have it - they seemed forced.

woohoo, dead thread resurrecting and all --

Anyhoo, I just finished "The Ascension Factor" (well about 3 weeks ago, but I only just thought about it in this regard). I didn't find it to be as bad as you were talking about Ziggy. In terms of "dirtiness", I'd say "Jesus Incident" and "Lazarus Effect" were both still worse. However, AF has virtually no Frank Herbert in it. I was reading the forward, and apparently, FH did little more than sketch out the character designs before he kicked the bucket (not finishing Dune off properly either). Bill Ransom essentially wrote the whole thing. That said, it was my least favorite of the trilogy, probably because there was so little of Herbert in it.

Oh well, just wanted to get that off my chest.

Maybe now it's time to start a thread discussing the prequel trilogy (spoilers included).

Tuan Jim

Maybe I judged AF to harshly - I didn't read more than 50 pages of it after all - but I just didn't like the way it was going, and when I realized that Herbert hadn't even really written it after all, I decided to go read something more rewarding.....

I liked the jesus incident alright, and was fairly disappointed with the Lazarus Effect, so I just assumed that it would be a downhill effect with the Ascencion Factor being the worst....

I've never read any of the prequel books for Dune though.......I may at some point, but I was afraid of what the kid was going to do to the story......it would be so easy for him to undermine the essence of Dune by writing a bunch of prequels that extend the story but not the philosophy and style of Dune....

So is that what they are? Just a continuation of the story? or is it an addition to the overall idea of Dune?

IMHO, the prequel books do add to the story in a positive way without changing too much of the history of Dune. I noticed some things were changed in comparison to the DUNE ENCYCLOPEDIA but the majority was not.

But what I mean is, does it just add to the story.....Dune is much more than simply a story.

Is anyone else a bit skeptical of the Dune prequels? I'm not really sure that I buy the party line that Brian Herbert discovered extensive notes from his father, which covered the SEVEN proposed books that have been/will be published.

(Yes, seven. After the first "House" trilogy, there will be a "Butlerian Jihad" trilogy, and then, finally, DUNE SEVEN, the last book in the saga that takes place after CHAPTERHOUSE.)

I think it's a little dubious that there was always all of this material there, and if it was, just how extensive it was. I mean, Frank only wrote six DUNE books, and now, almost two decades after his death, his story will be extended by SEVEN books.

I haven't read any of the non-Herbert DUNE books yet, but I suppose it's only a matter of time...

It's not that implausible, when you create a universe as broad and diverse as the Dune setting, over a period of over 30 years, it's easy to have that much in the way of notes and stuff. Heck, look at all the stuff Chris Tolkein has published -- in straight note form, not even edited, etc.

Plus, Herbert mixed and matched a lot of stuff between his other novels/short stories and the Dune saga in terms of ideas, terms, objects, etc. A lot of overlapping in certain areas = more basic material.

Tuan Jim

Well, IMHO the 2 I've read thus far add a great deal to the DUNE mythology. I liked them and one can read them without having read the original DUNE books.

Well I was thinking about a new thread just for the prequels (spoilers and whatnot), but seeing as how this board is so slow, this one'll do just fine. This is stream of consciousness because I have to write a paper later and don't feel like thinking much now).

New info for the Dune universe -- in depth details:

Harkonnens:
Baron -- why/how he got his nasty bod., why he hates the Bene Gesserit so much, more in-depth background on Beast Rabban and Dr. Yueh.

Tleilaxu -- women Not sure how much of a surprise that was, but I've been somewhat curious about this for years since this point was always brought out when discussing them.

Ix -- a world never really elaborated upon in the original books. Works pretty well in the end context here --

Duncan Idaho and Gurney Halleck -- good intro and background stories. Flesh out the hints from the originals.

The Emperor and co. -- some nice background on Shaddam and more surprisingly Count Fenring. His appearances in the original raised some questions -- they seemed rather random to say the least. This explains them more.

Overall the storyline was well done and was neatly wrapped up without leaving any loose ends to muck around with the originals. If anything, the story highlighted the importance of the spice and Arrakis in general -- starting with Dune you don't really grasp the full importance or nature of the planet from the beginning. Not to say that it lessens the message of the originals, but having read them after the originals, it gives the beginning of "Dune" a little more meaning, depth, etc.

feel free to continue the discussion.

Tuan Jim

um, several of your spoilers there contain information that I picked up from the original dune books..... :hscratch:

which ones? As I said above, some of them may have been briefly glossed over originally, but there's a lot more detail here. If it's the Tleilaxu one, I must've completely missed it in the series, because it came as a (not total -- given their character) surprise after the hints in the originals.

These weren't all necessarily spoilers as much as a brief rundown of some of the things in the new trilogy and how they don't conflict with the originals -- answering someone else's question.

Tuan Jim