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George R.R. Martin again -- what are the criticisms of these novels?

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George R.R. Martin again -- what are the criticisms of these novels?

Old 02-01-07, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Jadow
My biggest complaint with Martin's novels is that there isn't a recap of what's previously happened at the beginning of each book. Sorry, but I've got a lot going on in my life, and I read these books like 3+ years apart, I can't remember much of what happened previously. I had a heck of a time with the last one because of that.
I know you might have alot of other books to read, but I love this series so much that I have reread it twice already. My wife, who does not read fantasy, read through the first 3 books 3 times!
Old 02-01-07, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Jadow
My biggest complaint with Martin's novels is that there isn't a recap of what's previously happened at the beginning of each book. Sorry, but I've got a lot going on in my life, and I read these books like 3+ years apart, I can't remember much of what happened previously. I had a heck of a time with the last one because of that.
I wonder why more fantasy series don't do this? It wouldn't be hard, and would be extremely helpful and make me more likely to purchase books in a series before the series is over. Tad Williams does this in all his "series" books ("Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn" and "Otherland") - a couple pages of synopsis at the start of each book, with a heading of something like "What came before".

I do find the character lists, for all the different families and groups, at the back of the book very helpful.
Old 02-02-07, 02:12 AM
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I normally re-read the whole series when a new book comes out. This is especially necessary for Martin because he has so many characters and story arcs going.
Old 02-02-07, 02:14 AM
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Haven't seen this posted yet, so I'll drop some news; apparently HBO has purchased the rights to this series and will be looking to possibly begin production this summer. Also, in the announcement, GRRM states that their will be 7 books and finishing up around 2011. I think this could be cool as hell! GRRM Link
Old 02-02-07, 02:16 AM
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Okay, apparently my 'big news' is posted all over; Yes, I'm a moron. I blame the tequila.
Old 02-02-07, 02:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Ozzy's Bat Head
Okay, apparently my 'big news' is posted all over; Yes, I'm a moron. I blame the tequila.
Hell, I hadn't noticed yet. Thanks for bringing it up!
Old 02-02-07, 10:32 PM
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Paul Giamatti will be playing Tyrion
Old 02-05-07, 05:50 PM
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Sweet! Thanks for pointing out the HBO stuff.

I gave up on this series but now it seems GRR has a reason to actually finish it, and I'm glad. I'll be reading it when he does.

I hope HBO does a good job, they usually get a nice budget but rarely follow a series to it's fruition.
Old 02-05-07, 10:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Eric F
I gave up on this series but now it seems GRR has a reason to actually finish it
Well, that and the millions upon millions of copies he sells, and the fact that he's doubtlessly a hundred-fold more emotionally invested than any of us are.

I don't think the miniseries gives him a reason to finish it. He had plenty already. MAYBE it puts him on a tighter deadline, though ... also good.
Old 02-06-07, 03:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Jadow
My biggest complaint with Martin's novels is that there isn't a recap of what's previously happened at the beginning of each book. Sorry, but I've got a lot going on in my life, and I read these books like 3+ years apart, I can't remember much of what happened previously. I had a heck of a time with the last one because of that.
No one's posted this yet, but in one of his podcasts, Martin actually explains why he doesn't have a recap of previous events at the beginning of each book.

To paraphrase what he said, he doesn't do recaps because he seeds his books with lots of forshadowing events that fly under the radar so to speak. A minor plot point in one book, could have serious repricussions in the next book or even 2-3 books down the line. If he were to do recaps, he would either have to leave out these previously mentioned forshadowing events, making the recaps next to useless, or he would have to include everything he hints at, ruining the surprise. He said it was a lose-lose situation so he doesn't do it.

Hope that answers your question, and for a better answer, check out Martin's podcasts themselves. They're pretty good.
Old 02-06-07, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by SiberianLlama
To paraphrase what he said, he doesn't do recaps because he seeds his books with lots of forshadowing events that fly under the radar so to speak. A minor plot point in one book, could have serious repricussions in the next book or even 2-3 books down the line. If he were to do recaps, he would either have to leave out these previously mentioned forshadowing events, making the recaps next to useless, or he would have to include everything he hints at, ruining the surprise. He said it was a lose-lose situation so he doesn't do it.
That's a pretty lame sounding excuse. Forget about tiny plot points foreshadowing future events. Just sketch out the big picture again so the readers can get their bearing again. If its just a minor plot point, surely the recap can do without. If its a major plot point, surely Martin wants his reading audience to remember it when starting the next book. I don't get the "lose-lose" situation. Essentially, it sounds like Martin is telling readers of his series to either: a) re-read every book in the series right before starting a new book, b) have a photographic memory, c) take extensive notes while reading, or d) wait until the whole thing is done before reading.
Old 02-06-07, 09:16 AM
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If you want a recap, just ask. I am sure one of us would be more than happy to give you the general story arc.
Old 02-06-07, 01:55 PM
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The time period between books is exactly why I stopped reading. Other novelists like Gene Wolfe won't print books in a series until they're all finished.

I already read 3 or 4 of these GRR books and got tired of waiting for the next one (after reading like 20 or 30 books inbetween), so I just decided to wait for George to finish the whole series and restart from the beginning when he's done.
Old 02-11-07, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by SiberianLlama
Hope that answers your question, and for a better answer, check out Martin's podcasts themselves. They're pretty good.
Where could i find his podcasts? That sounds interesting.
Old 02-13-07, 12:46 AM
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Here's a link to where you can find his podcast:

George RR Martin Podcast
Old 02-16-07, 06:50 PM
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Any word on Dances with Dragons? I know he said 2006, and that is past. I need my Westeros fix.
Old 02-18-07, 06:01 PM
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Ok so how many books are out now - someone recommended this series to me, what is the list, what's out, what's planned?

No plots need be recounted - let's just talk the books out/not out/timelines etc.
Old 02-18-07, 07:59 PM
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4 of the 7 planned titles are out, and it sounds like 7 will be it. I first heard of this series when book 3 (A Storm of Swords) came out, and as I recall, back then, people didn't even know how many books will be in the entire series..... some said 5, some said more, but now it appears 7 will be it. On the author's own site, he lists the novels as:

1) A Game of Thrones (1996)
2) A Clash of Kings (1999)
3) A Storm of Swords (2000)
4) A Feast for Crows (2005)
5) A Dance with Dragons (to be completed)
6) The Winds of Winter
7) A Dream of Spring


Optimistically, even if he finishes book 5 this year, and does the other 2 at 2 years apart, we're looking at 2011 for the last book. I've read the first one and a half books, and the story is GREAT. I'll definitely read the others in the future, but they're long. I definitely don't want to be re-reading every book just before the new one comes out, because there are a lot of details to forget.

So, even though I have the first 3 books (bought them all when I started), I've stopped in the middle of A Clash of Kings for a few years now simply because I'm going to wait until book 7 comes out to go through the rest.
Old 02-18-07, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Seeker
Ok so how many books are out now - someone recommended this series to me, what is the list, what's out, what's planned?
Amazon.com
Old 02-18-07, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by mgbfan
Amazon.com
Sure, anyone can do that - and I did - but I wanted opinions - and I got good ones from Autotelik.

But thank you for playing...
Old 02-18-07, 10:05 PM
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To be fair you didn't ask for opinions. Autotelik just happens to be a mind reader.
Old 02-19-07, 09:56 AM
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Sigh - books "not out" is not as easy to find on Amazon - and yes, if we ALL did "google searches" we'd barely need this forum. This IS Book Talk after all.

I responded to a snippy response with about what it deserved.
Old 02-19-07, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Cusm
Any word on Dances with Dragons? I know he said 2006, and that is past. I need my Westeros fix.
DwD is really FoC part 2. Sigh.... Anyway, he is still not done (and considering that he had most of it done after splitting FoC into 2), I hope he finish it by end of year. Keeping my fingers crossed.
Old 02-19-07, 10:48 AM
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What concerns me is if it took 7 years (5 for Crows + 2 more to get "part 2" out) - how long for the rest?
Old 02-19-07, 07:23 PM
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Well, I'm hoping the HBO deal will spur the pace along. I'm already thinking of the champagne I will drink when I can officially say I've finished both Robert Jordan and GRRM series. Oh, what a happy day that will be...

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