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mcnabb
07-18-16, 01:41 PM
I know this question has almost become a cliche for the past 15 years, as everyone blames MTV for not playing videos anymore. I honestly think that music changed in the 90's and that was essentially the death of music videos.

When I was growing up in the heyday of MTV during the mid 80's, pop music ruled everything. And what I mean ruled is that every type of music in one way another co-opted pop. Whether it was hair bands like Whitesnake and Motley Crue, or classic rock groups from 70's like Bowie, Rolling Stones, and Bruce to pure pop sensations like Madonna, Michael Jackson, Prince and Whitney Houston.

MTV could play all of this music 24 hours a day and still have a mass audience, as rap and heavy metal were just a niche group of fans. Then the early 90's came and other forms of music became popular: Grunge, Rap/HipHop, Country, and Pop.

So what should MTV play 24 hours a day to get a mass audience? Would Nirvana fans listen to Notorius BIG? Would Eminem fans listen to Britney Spears or N'Sync? How about Country Music artists became mainstream too?

My point is that in the 1980's, MTV could play Michael Jackson, Madonna, Rolling Stones, Prince, Duran Duran, etc, and most teenagers growing up liked or loved most of them. But once music became diverse in the 90's/00's, then there would never be a mass audience to watch videos anymore, hence the death of MTV.

Now of course YouTube, and other forms of listening to music changed MTV too, but the bottom line is that radio stations are still alive playing music, the only difference is they cater to one specific genre of music, where MTV can never survive doing that.

DJariya
07-18-16, 01:50 PM
I think it also has to do with advertiser support.

MTV can't support itself just playing music videos, especially now in 2016.

Advertisers will be more inclined to pay for spots in a cheap reality show or Teen Wolf/Scream than say a 1 hour music video show. I think those reality shows are water cooler TV for the kids in High School and college. I just don't think there's enough quality modern music to play on a revolving basis anymore. And are most major artists still even shooting music videos anymore?

Mikael79
07-18-16, 01:55 PM
And are most major artists still even shooting music videos anymore?
Granted, I'm 37 and I don't have the musical tastes of a teenager, but most of the "current" bands that I listen to still create music videos. My wife and I actually use a Chromecast to watch music videos on YouTube, thus creating a better version of the MTV of old.

Chrisedge
07-18-16, 02:13 PM
I think it also has to do with advertiser support.

MTV can't support itself just playing music videos, especially now in 2016.

Advertisers will be more inclined to pay for spots in a cheap reality show or Teen Wolf/Scream than say a 1 hour music video show. I think those reality shows are water cooler TV for the kids in High School and college. I just don't think there's enough quality modern music to play on a revolving basis anymore. And are most major artists still even shooting music videos anymore?

It's this. Music videos (esp if so diverse as you mentioned) do not cause viewers to STAY tuned. They can switch as soon as their favorite is over. There is a good book on the decline of MTV (I Want My MTV: The Uncensored Story Of The Music Video Revolution) that explains exactly why they moved away from the videos)

Alan Smithee
07-18-16, 05:36 PM
Still doesn't justify the crap they put on in its place.

Why So Blu?
07-18-16, 09:38 PM
For us rockers - MTV-X was amazing. Hard rock/rock/metal all the time.

The Cow
07-18-16, 09:45 PM
Most bands I listen to still do videos. I have a ton downloaded and put into a playlist in iTunes. Set that sucker to random and I'm good to go.

VHS?
07-18-16, 09:59 PM
I used to complain about MTV not playing music videos anymore but now with YouTube it's all good.

Josh-da-man
07-18-16, 10:06 PM
I think it also has to do with advertiser support.

MTV can't support itself just playing music videos, especially now in 2016.

Advertisers will be more inclined to pay for spots in a cheap reality show or Teen Wolf/Scream than say a 1 hour music video show. I think those reality shows are water cooler TV for the kids in High School and college. I just don't think there's enough quality modern music to play on a revolving basis anymore. And are most major artists still even shooting music videos anymore?

Yeah, the bottom line is more people will watch not-music videos than music videos. So now they show nothing but original reality shows (Teen Mom, Catfish) that are cheap to produce, syndicated television (like Martin), or movies.

Same with every other cable television channel that has moved away from their original programming.

Alan Smithee
07-19-16, 01:38 AM
I think it also has to do with advertiser support.

Which is what's so WRONG about cable's basic business model. If I'm PAYING for it, then *I* am the sponsor, and if they won't show me what I want then they don't get my money. (Who the hell would PAY to watch "Martin" reruns, and choose THAT over music videos???) I'd pay for a good online music video service with better-than-YouTube quality- Vevo on the Roku almost fits that, though their main "TV channel" has an onscreen bug- you get a clutter-free picture when you select your own videos, but then it plays a narrower variety of them afterwards. I don't mind sitting through a few stupid rap videos to see/hear something I might like but never heard of before in between.

Commercial radio of course doesn't play as diverse a variety of music as it used to. Top 40 stations, though limited only to "hit singles" and not every song on an album, would play hard rock, soul, pop and maybe even one country song every once in a while during a few hours. The #1 top 40 station here in the 80s is now 100% rap and new R&B, and other stations are now limited to rock and nothing but that, etc. My taste is all over the place- when I put Pandora on "Quickmix" I get just about everything- it's always funny when it plays Dead Kennedys and Hannah Montana back to back!

mcnabb
07-19-16, 06:49 AM
I think it also has to do with advertiser support.

MTV can't support itself just playing music videos, especially now in 2016.

Advertisers will be more inclined to pay for spots in a cheap reality show or Teen Wolf/Scream than say a 1 hour music video show. I think those reality shows are water cooler TV for the kids in High School and college. I just don't think there's enough quality modern music to play on a revolving basis anymore. And are most major artists still even shooting music videos anymore?

I see what you're saying, but from what I read MTV ratings have been dropping for years. Yes, there is always a hit show like Jersey Shore/Beavis and Butthead that will boost the ratings in the short-term. But there is so much dreck they show that you wonder how the network is even relevant anymore? My point is that if I were running the network, is it worth it to show a bunch of stupid teenage shows to a small audience of kids, when they could rebrand the channel doing something more substantitive to a mass audience? It's almost like they gave up and said, "OK, only teenagers watch us, so we are going to show them the lowest common denominator shows and get awful ratings!"

majorjoe23
07-19-16, 09:11 AM
I think advertisers are probably happier reaching a small, teenage audience than a large mass audience. Teenager are traditionally harder to market to than the 18-49 demo, so companies are happy to have an in to that audience.

Alan Smithee
07-19-16, 12:09 PM
More specifically SPOILED RICH teenage audiences, as they can't afford cable on their own. And add STUPID to that list with what most of the shows are. In the 80s at least they used to advertise audio/video equipment and stuff like that.

Mabuse
07-19-16, 01:49 PM
More specifically SPOILED RICH teenage audiences, as they can't afford cable on their own. And add STUPID to that list with what most of the shows are. In the 80s at least they used to advertise audio/video equipment and stuff like that.

I was watching a documentary about Spaulding Grey called ...and Everything is Going Fine. It's entirely made of clips of the man speaking and being interviewed. About half way in they show a clip of him being interviewed and it has that famous MTV bug in the corner. I'd guess it was about 1993.

It jogged my memmory. MTV used to show interviews with Spaulding Grey!!! They used to show The Young Ones and Flying Circus. They used to push a lot of exciting and interesting subjects.

Cable used to be a niche of affluent viewership. MTV viewers were affluent young people. Affluent young people have diverse interests and were receptive to MTV's alternative content. Cable went mainstream, and everybody bought in. MTV had to change to accommodate their new viewership who were young, dumb, not college bound. They had to go from lampooning ignorant teens with Bevis and Butthead to embracing them as the target demographic.

And they called their leader The Situation!

Coral
07-19-16, 02:18 PM
I just think there's not a lot of interest in music videos in general as there once was.

Does anyone here actually watch the same music video more than once? Usually I'll check out a music video on youtube just to listen to the new song (whether it's an artist I already like or someone I don't know), and that's usually it. I won't go back to re-watch the video - although if liked the song enough I may play the video again just for the audio while doing something else.

And if there are still people who love to watch music videos and watch them often, wouldn't youtube be the best option anyway? In the 80's I had to sit through a lot of crap in the hopes of watching something I liked - but today you have the luxury of picking and choosing. Why would anyone want to be forced to listen/watch something they don't like?

Mikael79
07-19-16, 02:44 PM
I watch the same videos many times. I know that barely anyone does anymore, so I'm not saying that MTV should change their course.

The Cow
07-19-16, 03:06 PM
I watch the MTV-Live (formerly Palladia) channel a lot. It's more concerts and festivals than videos, but they do show both.

And I do watch videos multiple times with my setup on iTunes. To me it's just another playlist on random.

PhantomStranger
07-19-16, 03:21 PM
MTV started moving away from music videos when the music labels started demanding more and more licensing fees. MTV was basically paying nothing for videos in the 80s. The music industry considered it free advertising. That was the impetus behind MTV transitioning into a reality channel.

The rise of the Internet largely destroyed the music video as television business model. People could hear the songs on Napster without having to hang around the TV all day.

Paff
07-19-16, 03:50 PM
Yeah, MTV should totally have ignored all the trends and stuck to what they do best, music videos. Stay the course, keep going with the original plan. You know, like Blockbuster video rental stores.

The only thing I've watched on MTV in the last decade has been the Beavis and Butthead revival a few years ago, but I can see why they abandoned music videos. Had they stayed the course, they probably would have been gobbled up and rebranded, like TNN (The Nashville Network) becoming Spike TV, or OLN (Outdoor Life Network) becoming Versus and eventually NBC Sports Network.

Josh-da-man
07-19-16, 04:22 PM
What was the first non-music program MTV did? Remote Control?

The early 90's were really the golden age of MTV. They were still running music, with genre-specific programming like Yo MTV Raps, Headbangers Ball, and 120 Minutes, in addition to innovative original series like MTV News, Aeon Flux, Beavis and Butthead, and The Real World. Damn, I miss that shit.

Greg MacGuffin
07-19-16, 07:58 PM
What was the first non-music program MTV did? Remote Control?

I didn't get MTV until the late 80s, but from what I've read, they experimented with a lot of non-music programming early on, like pro-wrestling and teen-oriented movies like Friday the 13th. Supposedly they would occasionally show experimental films like Un Chien Andalou.

Josh-da-man
07-19-16, 09:45 PM
I didn"t get MTV until around '86 or '87, and it was all music at that time. I remember watching 120 Minutes and HBB, and I remember when Yo MTV Raps debuted. They also did a top ten viewer requests show around 5:00 or 6:00 pm. I also remember when Remote Control started, and it seemed weird at the time that MTV was showing something that wasn't music (either videos or concerts).

Alan Smithee
07-20-16, 01:31 AM
Yep, Remote Control was the first non-music show, though at least at first the questions were about music. They added Monty Python's Flying Circus in the late 80s which was a bit too old to be showing there (plus it had already been on PBS which you could get for free over the air). The whole point of MTV in the beginning was that you could turn it on any time day or night and see music videos. If you wanted to see regular shows, there were other channels for that.

This is how it started out in 1981 (this is just the intro, someone had the whole first hour uploaded but it seems to be gone now)
XBf0yJVMSzI

"Teen Mom" is NOT "Rock n Roll".

Josh-da-man
07-20-16, 12:46 PM
I also remember them showing "The Young Ones" on, I think, Sunday nights at some point in the late 80s or early 90s.

mcnabb
07-20-16, 01:19 PM
What was the first non-music program MTV did? Remote Control?

.

I think Remote Control started 1987 or 1988? I think that was their first rebranding as I'm pretty sure they cleaned house with all of the Original VJ's in 1987, and then the next wave of VJ's (Downtown Julie Brown, Kennedy, Tabitha Soren, Kurt Loder did MTV News every half hour).

I think a big change in MTV when was 'Yo!MTV Raps' was so successful as they realized there actually was an audience for that music, especially white kids. I still think that time period (early 90's) is when music got away from pure pop and got genre specific like Grunge, Rap, Country, Hip-Hop, etc. There is no way you can run all of those types of music and be able to hold a mass audience. Once you focus on one type of music, you are going to turn off another fanbase. It was easy in the mid 80's as pretty much everything that was popular was considered Pop Music so they could run with those videos all day.

bunkaroo
07-20-16, 01:25 PM
I'll always remember Remote Control for the following question:

"What band would you only need to knit nine mittens for"?

I couldn't have lived with out MTV from the late 80s into the early 90s. I found so many bands through Headbangers Ball who I would likely have never heard otherwise. Unfortunately I knew it was the beginning of the end of that show when they started playing Pearl Jam "Alive". I love that album but it had no place on Headbanger's Ball.

Alan Smithee
07-20-16, 07:30 PM
MTV was criticized in its early years for not playing enough "black" music- even Michael Jackson didn't get played a lot when he was mega-popular.

Supermallet
07-20-16, 09:13 PM
What was the first non-music program MTV did? Remote Control?

The early 90's were really the golden age of MTV. They were still running music, with genre-specific programming like Yo MTV Raps, Headbangers Ball, and 120 Minutes, in addition to innovative original series like MTV News, Aeon Flux, Beavis and Butthead, and The Real World. Damn, I miss that shit.

And Liquid Television!

sportsfan64
07-20-16, 10:18 PM
I remember getting cable in Spring of 1987 and seeing MTV's Spring Break shows. They used to get away with a lot back then and toned it down year after year. I think it eventually wound up on MTV2.

Nick Danger
07-20-16, 10:33 PM
I watched The Young Ones in 1987 or 1988. It couldn't have been later, because it was before I moved.

I think it was in 1990 that I saw a story in Billboard magazine about MTV changing their programming. They dumped the hair metal bands and started playing hip hop. The article said that some hair metal band sued, saying that if they weren't played on MTV, nobody would buy their records. It was hilarious on multiple levels.

Barth
07-21-16, 12:06 AM
Man I remember coming back home after dates on Saturdays, parents were already in bed, throwing a Hot Pocket in the turn dial microwave, burning the shit out of my mouth, and watching some Headbangers Ball videos till 2 am.

Grew to like a lot of hair metal bands that no one has ever heard of that way.

Paff
07-21-16, 01:28 AM
Oh man, if we start talking Liquid Television, we'll be here forever. Everyone talks about Aeon Flux, but this was always the best animated thing ever shown on MTV:

ezgjoOjbnVI

Always loved how they kept the audio outtakes in, and sometimes even animated them.

Supermallet
07-21-16, 02:03 AM
MTV had some of the best animation. Liquid Television, Cartoon Sushi, Aeon Flux, Beavis and Butthead, The Head, The Maxx, I'm sure I'm forgetting a bunch.

William Fuld
07-21-16, 02:56 AM
There are at least six cable channels devoted to music videos and a few others that offer music programming.

mcnabb
07-21-16, 06:47 AM
MTV was criticized in its early years for not playing enough "black" music- even Michael Jackson didn't get played a lot when he was mega-popular.

I do remember that, but I think MTV was trying to be a Rock & Roll music station at first. I don't even think they wanted to be associated with pop music, as they essentially wanted to be 'Classic Rock' of TV with bands like Bowie, Rolling Stones, etc.

Then by 1982, music videos changed everything as your look was just as important as your music. So pop bands figured out that a cool music video could sell, and that is when MTV got away from Rock & Roll. I still remember the summer of 1982 when I first got into MTV they played: The Go Go's, Duran Duran, The Motels, Asia, Men at Work, etc, as they all had cool videos. The older artists from the 70's videos were just straight up them playing their instruments on some set and they were so bland.

1983-84 is when they started playing black artists as I remember that was the first I saw of Michael Jackson/Bilie Jean, Lionel Richie/All Night Long, Prince/Little Red Corvette, The Pointer Sisters/Jump. And Michael Jackson/Thriller Video was when it came full circle in January 1984, as they played it EVERY hour on the hour for months.

AaronHernandez
07-21-16, 09:06 AM
I think Remote Control started 1987 or 1988? I think that was their first rebranding as I'm pretty sure they cleaned house with all of the Original VJ's in 1987, and then the next wave of VJ's (Downtown Julie Brown, Kennedy, Tabitha Soren, Kurt Loder did MTV News every half hour).

I think a big change in MTV when was 'Yo!MTV Raps' was so successful as they realized there actually was an audience for that music, especially white kids. I still think that time period (early 90's) is when music got away from pure pop and got genre specific like Grunge, Rap, Country, Hip-Hop, etc. There is no way you can run all of those types of music and be able to hold a mass audience. Once you focus on one type of music, you are going to turn off another fanbase. It was easy in the mid 80's as pretty much everything that was popular was considered Pop Music so they could run with those videos all day.

Also when Real World reruns would still get better ratings then music video's.

No matter the genre the novelty of turning on the tv to play song's that are on the radio all the time when you go to school or work was always gonna be a novelty with a short shelf life. The only surprising thing is something like Remote Control didn't start even sooner.

JeffTheAlpaca
07-21-16, 05:48 PM
There are at least six cable channels devoted to music videos and a few others that offer music programming.

6 channels that only show music videos and no reality shows?

I bet in outer countries MTV is still known as a music station.

Huge festivals like Glastonbury mix different genres of music and nobody complains and I can not see why MTV can't show music videos from all different genres in U.S.

Texan26
07-21-16, 06:54 PM
6 channels that only show music videos and no reality shows?

I bet in outer countries MTV is still known as a music station.

Huge festivals like Glastonbury mix different genres of music and nobody complains and I can not see why MTV can't show music videos from all different genres in U.S.

MTV Hits on Comcast plays nothing but music videos. No reality shows.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MTV_Hits#Current_programming

Paff
07-21-16, 07:06 PM
I do remember that, but I think MTV was trying to be a Rock & Roll music station at first. I don't even think they wanted to be associated with pop music, as they essentially wanted to be 'Classic Rock' of TV with bands like Bowie, Rolling Stones, etc.

Then by 1982, music videos changed everything as your look was just as important as your music. So pop bands figured out that a cool music video could sell, and that is when MTV got away from Rock & Roll. I still remember the summer of 1982 when I first got into MTV they played: The Go Go's, Duran Duran, The Motels, Asia, Men at Work, etc, as they all had cool videos. The older artists from the 70's videos were just straight up them playing their instruments on some set and they were so bland.

1983-84 is when they started playing black artists as I remember that was the first I saw of Michael Jackson/Bilie Jean, Lionel Richie/All Night Long, Prince/Little Red Corvette, The Pointer Sisters/Jump. And Michael Jackson/Thriller Video was when it came full circle in January 1984, as they played it EVERY hour on the hour for months.

The Go-Go's, Duran Duran, et al, aren't rock and roll?

No, I know what you meant (I just take umbrage when someone refers to a particular sub-genre of rock and roll, or time period, and only THAT is "rock and roll"). But I thought that MTV's original plan was mostly based on new wave, as both elements (music videos and new wave) really got going around the same time. If you recall those early "I want my MTV!" commercials, yes Pete Townshend was in them, but so were Billy Idol and the Police. Obviously, a channel dedicated to new wave would last as long as the genre did, so they'd have to branch out.

William Fuld
07-22-16, 07:53 AM
6 channels that only show music videos and no reality shows?

I bet in outer countries MTV is still known as a music station.

Huge festivals like Glastonbury mix different genres of music and nobody complains and I can not see why MTV can't show music videos from all different genres in U.S.

MTV Hits, TR3S, BET Jams, BET Soul, and CMT Music are all videos. VH1 Classic and REVOLT are mostly videos with music oriented shows mixed in. MTV Live carries new and old festivals (including Glastonbury), music documentaries, Unplugged episodes, and a four hour block of videos everyday.

There was an excellent Frontline episode years ago called "The Merchants of Cool" that examined MTV's use of market research. It's on the Frontline website.

Rival11
07-22-16, 09:54 AM
I know this question has almost become a cliche for the past 15 years, as everyone blames MTV for not playing videos anymore. I honestly think that music changed in the 90's and that was essentially the death of music videos.

When I was growing up in the heyday of MTV during the mid 80's, pop music ruled everything. And what I mean ruled is that every type of music in one way another co-opted pop. Whether it was hair bands like Whitesnake and Motley Crue, or classic rock groups from 70's like Bowie, Rolling Stones, and Bruce to pure pop sensations like Madonna, Michael Jackson, Prince and Whitney Houston.

MTV could play all of this music 24 hours a day and still have a mass audience, as rap and heavy metal were just a niche group of fans. Then the early 90's came and other forms of music became popular: Grunge, Rap/HipHop, Country, and Pop.

So what should MTV play 24 hours a day to get a mass audience? Would Nirvana fans listen to Notorius BIG? Would Eminem fans listen to Britney Spears or N'Sync? How about Country Music artists became mainstream too?

My point is that in the 1980's, MTV could play Michael Jackson, Madonna, Rolling Stones, Prince, Duran Duran, etc, and most teenagers growing up liked or loved most of them. But once music became diverse in the 90's/00's, then there would never be a mass audience to watch videos anymore, hence the death of MTV.

Now of course YouTube, and other forms of listening to music changed MTV too, but the bottom line is that radio stations are still alive playing music, the only difference is they cater to one specific genre of music, where MTV can never survive doing that.

Good post, I never really thought of it that way before.

Rex Fenestrarum
07-23-16, 04:28 AM
Does anyone here actually watch the same music video more than once?

Depends on the video. There are many I only watch once, but there are others I have watched many times, including:

Saint Etienne - "I've Got Your Music" - The song is about the joy of putting on headphones and zoning out to your favorite band. The group asked fans to send them video clips of themselves holding up their favorite albums. Sometimes I watch it just to look at the records they're holding up, other times I watch to actually look at the people.

Kylie Minogue - "Come Into My World" - Kylie walks out of a dry cleaners in Paris, walks down the sidewalk, crosses the street, walks back up the sidewalk, then crosses the street to end up back where she started. She does this four times. Every time she does, an additional Kylie walks out of the cleaners. In addition, the background scenes get more and more chaotic, since there's an additional extra with every lap she makes. I'm not a Kylie fan, but this is fun to watch.

Fiest - "1234" - Not much of a Feist fan, either. But I could watch this all day, just to see how it was shot. This also applies to Weezer's "Undone", Spoon's "The Underdog", Metric's "Gimme Sympathy", most of OK Go's stuff, and other continuous-take music videos.

JeffTheAlpaca
07-27-16, 05:24 AM
If MTV did only play music videos people would complain the music sucks and miss they days of Prince, Van Halen, Guns N' Roses, etc and the music they listened to as kids.

AaronHernandez
07-27-16, 08:38 AM
People always think MTV was better in the past. I remember when they started playing George Lopez and Fresh Prince reruns all the time people complained why can't they play Mr. Peanutbutter's House and Horsin Around reruns like they used to.

Supermallet
07-27-16, 12:56 PM
:lol:

Forget those, when will they play the reruns of The Bojack Horseman Show?

BDB
07-27-16, 03:55 PM
Vh1 Classic is being rebranded MTV Classic on Aug 1. and will show a bunch of old shows.

it will include some rare stuff that hasn't aired in ages like Aeon Flux and Clone High. They will also be including classic episodes of Unplugged, Yo! MTV Raps, 120 Minutes and Headbangers Ball.

The music video blocks are staying but under alternate names:
Metal Mania -> Headbangers
Rock Fest -> Rock Block
Totally 80's -> I Want My 80s
90s Rocked -> 90s Nation
Morning Video Block -> MTV Classic Videos
VH1 Classic 120 Minutes -> 120 Minutes

And they're adding the following blocks
YO! Hip Hop Mix (Classic Hip-Hop)
House Of Pop (Pop from the 80s-early 00s)
Total Request Playlist (late 90s-early 00s)

The channel is also relaunching on the 35th anniversary of MTV with the entire first hour of MTV as it aired back on August 1st 1981, complete with classic commercials and technical glitches.

bluetoast
07-27-16, 04:17 PM
Rex - if you liked that Kylie Minogue video, you should watch more of Michel Gondry's videos. Start with Star Guitar and Sugar Water.

JeffTheAlpaca
07-27-16, 06:58 PM
People always think MTV was better in the past. I remember when they started playing George Lopez and Fresh Prince reruns all the time people complained why can't they play Mr. Peanutbutter's House and Horsin Around reruns like they used to.


I miss the days when you can listen to music on a gramophone.

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NTAwWDUwMA==/z/AZAAAOxyeZNTVkLL/$_35.JPG?set_id=2

mcnabb
07-28-16, 01:03 PM
If MTV did only play music videos people would complain the music sucks and miss they days of Prince, Van Halen, Guns N' Roses, etc and the music they listened to as kids.

I agree and sort of goes to my original post to start the thread. I was listening to the 80's Sirius Channel this weekend and they did the top 40 from July 13, 1985. Here were many of the artists and songs that were hits at that week:

-Duran Duran (A View to a Kill)
-Phil Collins (Sussudio)
-Bruce Springsteen (Glory Days)
-Huey Lewis & The News (The Power of Love)
-Tears For Fears (Everybody Wants to Rule the World)
-Billy Joel (You're Only Human)
-Whitney Houston (You give Good Love)
-Prince (Rasberry Beret)
-Survivor (The Search Is Over)
-Madonna (Angel)
-Eurythmics (Would I Lie To You)
-Til Tuesday (Voices Carry)
-Brian Adams (Heaven)
-Sting (If you Love Sombody Set Them Free)
-Howard Jones (Things Can Only Get Better)
-Heart (What About Love)
-Glen Frey (Smugglers Blues)
-Aretha Franklin (Freeway of Love)

My point is that these were all mainstream artists that pretty much appealed to anyone, so you could play these videos all day in 1985 and there was a market that watches them. If you go through the Top 40 these days, I guarantee most of it would not appeal to the masses other then a few songs.

Draven
07-28-16, 01:52 PM
Just thought I'd weigh in with the younger perspective. My daughter is 10 and spends hours in the basement watching music videos on YouTube with her friends. They can watch whatever they want, whenever they want, for as long as they want, as many times as they want. That will always be more appealing than putting MTV on and hoping they play the video you want to see.

I tell my friends who don't have kids that things are way different now. Between YouTube and Netflix, my daughter and my 12 year old son can always watch exactly what they want to watch. Neither one of them watches anything on traditional TV. I watched tons of shows every week on primetime and Saturdays growing up. They just watch whatever they want at all times instead on any of their devices.

And frankly, if that technology had been around when I was a kid I would have done the same thing.

Barth
07-28-16, 03:59 PM
Just thought I'd weigh in with the younger perspective. My daughter is 10 and spends hours in the basement watching music videos on YouTube with her friends. They can watch whatever they want, whenever they want, for as long as they want, as many times as they want. That will always be more appealing than putting MTV on and hoping they play the video you want to see.

I tell my friends who don't have kids that things are way different now. Between YouTube and Netflix, my daughter and my 12 year old son can always watch exactly what they want to watch. Neither one of them watches anything on traditional TV. I watched tons of shows every week on primetime and Saturdays growing up. They just watch whatever they want at all times instead on any of their devices.

And frankly, if that technology had been around when I was a kid I would have done the same thing.

Summed up quite nicely. :thumbsup:

Goat3001
07-28-16, 04:47 PM
I know this question has almost become a cliche for the past 15 years, as everyone blames MTV for not playing videos anymore. I honestly think that music changed in the 90's and that was essentially the death of music videos.

When I was growing up in the heyday of MTV during the mid 80's, pop music ruled everything. And what I mean ruled is that every type of music in one way another co-opted pop. Whether it was hair bands like Whitesnake and Motley Crue, or classic rock groups from 70's like Bowie, Rolling Stones, and Bruce to pure pop sensations like Madonna, Michael Jackson, Prince and Whitney Houston.

MTV could play all of this music 24 hours a day and still have a mass audience, as rap and heavy metal were just a niche group of fans. Then the early 90's came and other forms of music became popular: Grunge, Rap/HipHop, Country, and Pop.

So what should MTV play 24 hours a day to get a mass audience? Would Nirvana fans listen to Notorius BIG? Would Eminem fans listen to Britney Spears or N'Sync? How about Country Music artists became mainstream too?

My point is that in the 1980's, MTV could play Michael Jackson, Madonna, Rolling Stones, Prince, Duran Duran, etc, and most teenagers growing up liked or loved most of them. But once music became diverse in the 90's/00's, then there would never be a mass audience to watch videos anymore, hence the death of MTV.

Now of course YouTube, and other forms of listening to music changed MTV too, but the bottom line is that radio stations are still alive playing music, the only difference is they cater to one specific genre of music, where MTV can never survive doing that.

MTV was alive and well and at the top of it's game through the 90's into the early 2000's. MTV did very well when they were playing N*Sync followed by Eminem followed by Korn. It worked for them. They had that show, TRL, where they played all those videos in a 2 hour block. That show was huge back in the day and it's because it appealed to the entire teenage demo. I'd even venture to say that the late 90's was the height of MTV's popularity.

If you're going to say that Whitesnake and Michael Jackson both fall under the same "pop music" banner then so did Eminem, Britney Spears and Limp Bizkit.

I'd attribute the downfall of MTV more to the introduction of widespread high speed internet than changing music genres.

Texan26
07-28-16, 06:22 PM
My point is that these were all mainstream artists that pretty much appealed to anyone, so you could play these videos all day in 1985 and there was a market that watches them. If you go through the Top 40 these days, I guarantee most of it would not appeal to the masses other then a few songs.

But it didn't appeal to everyone in the 80s. My parents and many parents hated MTV music. They would prefer to listen to Elvis, The Beach Boys, The Beatles, etc. just like you now don't seem to like today's music. And it will keep going on and on like that. 30 years from now, the teenagers of today will wish they could go back to Lady Gaga, Katy Perry, Rihanna, Drake, Adele, etc....

AaronHernandez
07-28-16, 08:25 PM
I agree and sort of goes to my original post to start the thread. I was listening to the 80's Sirius Channel this weekend and they did the top 40 from July 13, 1985. Here were many of the artists and songs that were hits at that week:

-Duran Duran (A View to a Kill)
-Phil Collins (Sussudio)
-Bruce Springsteen (Glory Days)
-Huey Lewis & The News (The Power of Love)
-Tears For Fears (Everybody Wants to Rule the World)
-Billy Joel (You're Only Human)
-Whitney Houston (You give Good Love)
-Prince (Rasberry Beret)
-Survivor (The Search Is Over)
-Madonna (Angel)
-Eurythmics (Would I Lie To You)
-Til Tuesday (Voices Carry)
-Brian Adams (Heaven)
-Sting (If you Love Sombody Set Them Free)
-Howard Jones (Things Can Only Get Better)
-Heart (What About Love)
-Glen Frey (Smugglers Blues)
-Aretha Franklin (Freeway of Love)

My point is that these were all mainstream artists that pretty much appealed to anyone, so you could play these videos all day in 1985 and there was a market that watches them. If you go through the Top 40 these days, I guarantee most of it would not appeal to the masses other then a few songs.


When I see that list all I can think of list is besides Prince,Aretha and Madonna how did that milquetoast crap appeal to any young people or anyone but the whitest of whitebread people. Like it's hard for me to imagine anyone under 25 in any era being into Glen Fry or Bryan Adams.

Alan Smithee
07-29-16, 01:53 AM
Just thought I'd weigh in with the younger perspective. My daughter is 10 and spends hours in the basement watching music videos on YouTube with her friends. They can watch whatever they want, whenever they want, for as long as they want, as many times as they want. That will always be more appealing than putting MTV on and hoping they play the video you want to see.

Still doesn't excuse MTV for putting on crap instead of music videos. Watching MTV straight was how you got introduced to new songs and videos- if you're watching just what you want on YouTube, you're not as likely to check out something you never heard of before, though YouTube's auto-playing of similar videos afterwards might be helpful- I never tried that, but you'd likely eventually get stuck with some bootleg-quality upload of the same video you've just seen or one of those audio-only uploads that plays a song with a still picture of the album cover.

Draven
07-29-16, 02:03 AM
Still doesn't excuse MTV for putting on crap instead of music videos. Watching MTV straight was how you got introduced to new songs and videos- if you're watching just what you want on YouTube, you're not as likely to check out something you never heard of before, though YouTube's auto-playing of similar videos afterwards might be helpful- I never tried that, but you'd likely eventually get stuck with some bootleg-quality upload of the same video you've just seen or one of those audio-only uploads that plays a song with a still picture of the album cover.

Here's the thing Alan...they don't care about the quality of the video much. And they can always skip to the next one anyway.

We've been trying to give them a movie education on the "classics" my wife and I grew up with but these are people who've never not had the Internet and wi-fi at their beck and call. Their mentality is completely different when it comes to media.

I'm old enough that my daycare lady had an 8-track player. I'd record MTV for hours at a time just in the hopes that my favorite video would come on.

If I'd grown up with an iPad and Spotify, I wouldn't have spent a single moment waiting for MTV or the radio to play a song I wanted to hear. I would have just listened to it whenever I wanted.

That's so different from my experience that it's hard to even wrap my brain around it. I think about that when I watch my 80 year old father ask Siri a question.

AaronHernandez
07-29-16, 02:29 AM
Still doesn't excuse MTV for putting on crap instead of music videos. Watching MTV straight was how you got introduced to new songs and videos- if you're watching just what you want on YouTube, you're not as likely to check out something you never heard of before, though YouTube's auto-playing of similar videos afterwards might be helpful- I never tried that, but you'd likely eventually get stuck with some bootleg-quality upload of the same video you've just seen or one of those audio-only uploads that plays a song with a still picture of the album cover.

Graduating High school in the late 90s outside of some stuff on 120 Minutes I can't think of a single band I have ever heard of thanks to MTV. The rock,rap or pop songs MTV played were basically whatever the rock,rap or top 40 station were playing. Basically the only way to find out about bands besides whoever was cherry picked by the record labels was Indy Record Magazines,recomendations from friends and the local stations on Sunday showcasing local bands. Nowadays there's a thousand different ways to discover new acts and explore unheard of genre's.

Sonny Corinthos
07-29-16, 07:38 AM
I think it's the old chicken and the egg theory. MTV says no one will watch music videos on TV anymore. People complain that networks like MTV and VH1 don't play music videos anymore. And around and around she goes.........

JeffTheAlpaca
07-29-16, 09:40 AM
I was under 25 and liked Glen Frey and Phill Collins.

Vh1 Classic is being rebranded MTV Classic on Aug 1. and will show a bunch of old shows.

VH1 has become a sister station of BET. All the shows now are mostly geared for black viewers like Basketball Wives, Love and Hip Hop, TI's show, and a show with Shaq's ex wife.

Maybe the only shows you can see white people on VH1 are repeats of SNL and Dating Naked.

Alan Smithee
07-29-16, 11:53 AM
And apparently all the nudity on "Dating Naked" is blurred- what's the point of THAT? (Wondering if they'll ever start a cable channel for nudists? I might watch that- though they'd eventually turn that into all reruns of "Law and Order" anyways.)

JeffTheAlpaca
07-29-16, 06:22 PM
LOL

They should show it uncensored during the late hours.

Still can't believe the programming VH1 shows that replaced music videos.

Alan Smithee
07-30-16, 04:28 AM
VH1 started out as a music video channel for "older" audiences too- leaning more towards what was played on "adult contemporary" format radio stations at the time, skipping the harder stuff that MTV played.

TheKing
07-30-16, 05:38 AM
Vh1 Classic is being rebranded MTV Classic on Aug 1. and will show a bunch of old shows.

it will include some rare stuff that hasn't aired in ages like Aeon Flux and Clone High. They will also be including classic episodes of Unplugged, Yo! MTV Raps, 120 Minutes and Headbangers Ball.

The music video blocks are staying but under alternate names:
Metal Mania -> Headbangers
Rock Fest -> Rock Block
Totally 80's -> I Want My 80s
90s Rocked -> 90s Nation
Morning Video Block -> MTV Classic Videos
VH1 Classic 120 Minutes -> 120 Minutes

And they're adding the following blocks
YO! Hip Hop Mix (Classic Hip-Hop)
House Of Pop (Pop from the 80s-early 00s)
Total Request Playlist (late 90s-early 00s)

The channel is also relaunching on the 35th anniversary of MTV with the entire first hour of MTV as it aired back on August 1st 1981, complete with classic commercials and technical glitches.

I was just going through my DVR and looking at the upcoming schedule. Some good, some bad. Beavis and Butt-Head is part of the channel now, but it looks like they're starting with (and possibly only showing) the revived season from a few years ago and not the 90s episodes. Daria is also on the schedule.

Day 1 features an Unplugged marathon, anchored by Nirvana of course.

Nirvana
Erykah Badu
Bob Dylan
Neil Young
Aerosmith
Oasis (Liam sits this show out if I recall, leaving all vocals to Noel)
The Cure
R.E.M. (1991 Performance)
Alice In Chains
Nirvana

Nirvana will also reair several more times through the first couple weeks.

They're also going to still air movies (Both Ghostbusters, Revenge Of The Nerds, Sixteen Candles, etc.)

The Bus
07-31-16, 12:28 PM
Yeah, MTV should totally have ignored all the trends and stuck to what they do best, music videos. Stay the course, keep going with the original plan. You know, like Blockbuster video rental stores.


:lol:

LiquidSky
07-31-16, 02:21 PM
My point is that in the 1980's, MTV could play Michael Jackson, Madonna, Rolling Stones, Prince, Duran Duran, etc, and most teenagers growing up liked or loved most of them. But once music became diverse in the 90's/00's, then there would never be a mass audience to watch videos anymore, hence the death of MTV.

I was 18 when MTV began in the early 1980s. Even back then, the music was diverse: Joan Jett next to Duran Duran. Very different. Not sure what happened but I'm definitely not interested in the bullshit they promote now.

Rainet
08-01-16, 12:46 PM
Graduating High school in the late 90s outside of some stuff on 120 Minutes I can't think of a single band I have ever heard of thanks to MTV. The rock,rap or pop songs MTV played were basically whatever the rock,rap or top 40 station were playing. Basically the only way to find out about bands besides whoever was cherry picked by the record labels was Indy Record Magazines,recomendations from friends and the local stations on Sunday showcasing local bands. Nowadays there's a thousand different ways to discover new acts and explore unheard of genre's.

I agree with Alan. MTV was a great way to get introduced to new music, which you can't do with youtube unless you know what your looking for. It's not just 120 minutes. Headbangers Ball, Unplugged, etc and alot of diverse stuff outside of top 40. While the 90's was not great due to non music shows (still better than now), the 80's were amazing in terms of different music playing. it's a great way to discover music you have not heard before.

Sonny Corinthos
08-01-16, 05:01 PM
On August 1, 1981 -- 35 years ago today -- a channel launched that was to change music history. Music Television, or MTV, kicked off for the first time at 12:01 a.m., Eastern Time, with the now legendary words: "Ladies and gentlemen, rock and roll."

TheKing
08-01-16, 06:23 PM
For those curious, here is how MTV Classic started (after showing MTV Hour One):

Madonna - Like A Virgin (1984)
No Doubt - Hey Baby (2001)
Outkast - Hey Ya (2003)
Kanye West - Gold Digger (2005)
Matchbox 20 - Bent (2000)
Santana & Rob Thomas - Smooth (1999)

Draven
08-01-16, 06:25 PM
I was 18 when MTV began in the early 1980s. Even back then, the music was diverse: Joan Jett next to Duran Duran. Very different. Not sure what happened but I'm definitely not interested in the bullshit they promote now.

Says every member of every generation about their music compared to the next.

Josh-da-man
08-01-16, 09:42 PM
I think the teen-to-early-twenties generation has more diverse music interests than any in the past four or five decades.

When I was a kid in the 80s, if you liked rap music you hated heavy metal. If you liked heavy metal you hated rap. Nobody liked country music except old people (Garth Brooks really changed this around 1990 or so, though).

But now it seems like the average kid has diverse interests, that can include all genres of popular music. My friends and family have teens that will listen to country, pop, hip hop, metal, alt rock.

Alan Smithee
08-02-16, 02:32 AM
Yet you won't find a radio station that plays all of those together.

One idea I had for a radio format was a ridiculously diverse selection of music- punk rock to classical to you-name-it. Likely it would be hard to sell ad time on such a station as companies want to advertise to specific demographics, but I can dream.

mcnabb
08-02-16, 12:10 PM
For those curious, here is how MTV Classic started (after showing MTV Hour One):

Madonna - Like A Virgin (1984)
No Doubt - Hey Baby (2001)
Outkast - Hey Ya (2003)
Kanye West - Gold Digger (2005)
Matchbox 20 - Bent (2000)
Santana & Rob Thomas - Smooth (1999)

They are definetly skewering away from the 80's, as that just makes me feel older now that my demographic is being phased out. :(

GuessWho
08-03-16, 11:37 AM
For those curious, here is how MTV Classic started (after showing MTV Hour One):

Madonna - Like A Virgin (1984)
No Doubt - Hey Baby (2001)
Outkast - Hey Ya (2003)
Kanye West - Gold Digger (2005)
Matchbox 20 - Bent (2000)
Santana & Rob Thomas - Smooth (1999)Nobody needs to see Rob Thomas in two consecutive videos. Nobody.

DRG
08-04-16, 10:49 AM
When I was a kid in the 80s, if you like rap music you hated heavy metal. If you like heavy metal you hated rap. Nobody liked country music except old people (Garth Brooks really changed this around 1990 or so, though).

Very true... although I had liked some early hip hop when I was younger, once I became a teen I became a metal kid and hated rap for awhile. I actually did like DJ Jazzy Jeff and the Fresh Prince - especially A Nightmare on My Street - and secretly bought the tape, but I didn't display it with my other tapes. I actually had it hidden away so my friends wouldn't see it if they came over, like a closeted dude hiding his gay porn stash or something. :lol: It's ridiculous now, but it was a weird time.

Goat3001
08-04-16, 12:09 PM
Yet you won't find a radio station that plays all of those together.

Yes, you can. It's called Spotify and it uses algorithms to create personalized radio stations based on the music you already like and it's not genre specific. No one listens to the radio anymore.

Paff
08-04-16, 02:05 PM
Exactly. I use Pandora, but in a similar way. It's totally possible for me to hear Petula Clark, the Bad Brains, the Specials, and Puffy AmiYumi in a row.

Inhumans99
08-04-16, 02:43 PM
VH1 started out as a music video channel for "older" audiences too- leaning more towards what was played on "adult contemporary" format radio stations at the time, skipping the harder stuff that MTV played.

This is true, if you wanted to watch a Madonna video go to MTV, but if you wanted to watch a Celine Dion video go to VH1 (I picked an artist that I assume MTV was not playing a lot of, if at all, back in their glory days). I definitely spent some time watching music videos on VH1.

mcnabb
08-05-16, 07:01 AM
Says every member of every generation about their music compared to the next.

I totally disagree with that. I grew up in the 80's and MTV (and liked that music) but my favorite music was classic rock (which I got into when I was in highschool). Most of my friends growing up were all classic rock fans, as we all joked we were born 15 years too late. I ended up seeing The Who, The Stones, Pink Floyd all in the late 80's/early 90's, but I would have loved to see them in their prime in the early 70's.

I just think music is a symptom of our culture (along with Movies, TV, etc.), in that teenagers think it's not cool to like anything from the past. Part of the reason is they just aren't exposed to older stuff and you have to search it out yourself. The only music I was exposed to was MTV and pop music in the 80's growing up, and I started to search out The Who, Led Zeppelin, The Beatles, and was amazed at what I was missing all of those years.

AaronHernandez
08-05-16, 09:18 AM
A segment of teenagers for the last 30 years have always been like OMG music now SUUUUUUUXXXXXXX. Go on the youtube page for any crappy 80's rock song and it's flooded with why can't we get real bands anymore like"Ratt,Starship,Dokken etc" anymore instead of Beiber and Katy Perry I wish I grew up in the 80's seems like real talent mattered back then.

JeffTheAlpaca
08-05-16, 09:28 AM
MTV Classic what a load of crap!

I saw Headbangers Balls and it was the same videos they showed on Metal Mania all the time.

JeffTheAlpaca
02-10-17, 09:42 PM
Its now official as of 2017 MTV no longer plays music videos at 3am or in the wee hours of the morning.

Music Feed has been replaced by Catfish and old reruns of stupid shows.

MTV should change their name to Freeform or some other lame name.

MTV Live should be the real MTV and only they should be allowed to carry the VMA Awards.

A dark era when MTV and VH1 have no music videos.

GuessWho
02-13-17, 10:57 AM
MTV’s Turnaround Plan: More Music, More Live, More Fun

http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/mtv-turnaround-viacom-chris-mccarthy-mary-and-jane-cancel-1201983349/

Space Ape Mafia
02-17-17, 07:14 AM
MTV plays what makes them money. If playing videos made more money than the crap they show now, they would still be playing videos.

JeffTheAlpaca
02-20-17, 06:22 PM
MTVís Turnaround Plan: More Music, More Live, More Fun

http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/mtv-turnaround-viacom-chris-mccarthy-mary-and-jane-cancel-1201983349/

Sounds like a bunch of crap where they will add more crappy reality shows.

JeffTheAlpaca
02-24-17, 06:22 PM
If it is any consolation MTV Live now plays music videos every weekday at 3 and 4pm Pacific.

Coral
02-24-17, 07:00 PM
Does a channel exist that only plays concerts? If not, I think that would be pretty cool.

Of course it would have to cater to all tastes, so there'll be music/genres that people would love and hate - rock, pop, jazz, hip-hop/rap, classical, country, etc. They could just rotate the different types of concerts throughout the day, and then maybe dedicate each evening of the week to a particular genre of music.

I'd much prefer concerts to music videos. I'll only watch a music video once (on youtube) when I'm listening to the song for the first time, and any repeated listens I wouldn't be watching along. It's 2017 - music videos aren't a big deal.

William Fuld
02-24-17, 08:57 PM
It's 2017 - music videos aren't a big deal.

Ed Sheeran's latest has almost 200 million views on YouTube.

Finisher
02-24-17, 10:18 PM
MTV should do another dating show. Next and Room Raiders were fun nonsense.

sportsfan64
02-24-17, 10:51 PM
Does a channel exist that only plays concerts? If not, I think that would be pretty cool.

Of course it would have to cater to all tastes, so there'll be music/genres that people would love and hate - rock, pop, jazz, hip-hop/rap, classical, country, etc. They could just rotate the different types of concerts throughout the day, and then maybe dedicate each evening of the week to a particular genre of music.

I'd much prefer concerts to music videos. I'll only watch a music video once (on youtube) when I'm listening to the song for the first time, and any repeated listens I wouldn't be watching along. It's 2017 - music videos aren't a big deal.

MTVLive (formerly Palladia) plays a lot of concerts and AXS-TV plays a fair amount.

JeffTheAlpaca
03-19-17, 06:45 PM
Music Feed is back on MTV but maybe one hour a night and not 2-4 hours and not sure if it airs every weekday.

AaronHernandez
03-19-17, 09:24 PM
Ed Sheeran's latest has almost 200 million views on YouTube.

And Ed Sheeran fans didn't have to sit through music videos of several other musicians they might not like just to watch his video for 3 minutes.

Alan Smithee
03-20-17, 05:33 AM
But the thing about that is, those other music videos you sit through MIGHT end up being something that you like that you hadn't heard of before. That's what I liked about the music video shows that aired on broadcast TV in the 80s, and why I would've loved to have had MTV during that time. Same thing with good radio versus playing just your favorite tracks.

But I was gonna bump this thread after finding this on YouTube- I don't really like Guns N Roses but this shows how much YouTube's video quality has improved- this was shot on video for MTV and if you watch this using Google Chrome, Internet Explorer, or on a recent TV's YouTube app (like my LG), it actually displays AT THE RIGHT FRAME RATE! Still some slight compression artifacts but if internet video improves then there really won't be any need for cable anymore (not that any current cable channels even care about picture quality).

EwlJTN2OBhw

I need to figure out how to upload video like this and re-do all the stuff I've uploaded.

Jason
03-20-17, 03:23 PM
There's no such thing as 60fps NTSC.

Alan Smithee
03-20-17, 08:02 PM
I think the "f" in this case stands for fields, not frames. In any case, on internet video 60fps looks like real video, 30fps doesn't.

Mabuse
03-20-17, 08:08 PM
Ed Sheeran's latest has almost 200 million views on YouTube.

That Major Laser song called Lean On has 1.9 billion youtube views.

JeffTheAlpaca
03-26-17, 07:51 PM
I hate that Lean On song.

MTV Live or Palladia use to play a lot of alternative or more rock but now they mostly just pop tunes.

MTV2 might but they play a lot of rap.

Mabuse
03-26-17, 10:36 PM
I hate that Lean On song.



Hate it or not it's got 1.9 billion. That is a fuck load of views. Global phenomenon. My guess is it's prime jack material in countries that block most porn.

GuessWho
03-27-17, 12:14 PM
MTV Hits on Comcast plays nothing but music videos. No reality shows.


FYI, MTV Hits changed its name months ago to


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c7/NickMusic.svg/384px-NickMusic.svg.png
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NickMusic

The Bus
04-04-17, 08:37 PM
<b>MTV Classic</b> shows videos almost every morning. They had XTC on this morning. Last week it was an 80s hair metal block. The week before that it was hip-hop from early 2000s.

<b>MTV Live</b> shows videos interspersed with concerts.

The Bus
04-04-17, 08:47 PM
Which is what's so WRONG about cable's basic business model. If I'm PAYING for it, then *I* am the sponsor, and if they won't show me what I want then they don't get my money.

You are paying, on average, a few pennies a month per channel. <b>Animal Planet</b> costs your carrier about 13Ę a month.

Animal Planet's owner, Discover Communications, makes as much, if not more, money on advertising.


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