On the advice of my lawyer (and law professor)....
09-13-00, 07:33 PM
#1
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I have reported Amazon.com to the BBB, the FTC, the Attorney General's offices for New York State, and the Department of Justice.
He's a corporate lawyer, and said that regardless of what Amazon.com's policy, as stated on their web page is, they are not allowed to do what they did.
He said it was a.) breach of contract (because apparently clicking on the item at the lower price fulfills a contract in the loosest sense of the word, and the email they send you in a much tighter sense) b.) false advertising, c.) unfair and deceptive business practice, and a few other things I wrote down.
He actually gave me the number for the attorney general and the DOJ. He said if I had "deep pockets" I could organize a lawsuit myself, but told me to contact the AG (with whom he is friends) and he promised me that something would get done.
I'd advise everyone to do the same. Even if it's just a fine (the FTC will punish amazon.com with a 10,000 dollar fine for "bait and switch" for each occurance) it sends amazon a message.
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He's a corporate lawyer, and said that regardless of what Amazon.com's policy, as stated on their web page is, they are not allowed to do what they did.
He said it was a.) breach of contract (because apparently clicking on the item at the lower price fulfills a contract in the loosest sense of the word, and the email they send you in a much tighter sense) b.) false advertising, c.) unfair and deceptive business practice, and a few other things I wrote down.
He actually gave me the number for the attorney general and the DOJ. He said if I had "deep pockets" I could organize a lawsuit myself, but told me to contact the AG (with whom he is friends) and he promised me that something would get done.
I'd advise everyone to do the same. Even if it's just a fine (the FTC will punish amazon.com with a 10,000 dollar fine for "bait and switch" for each occurance) it sends amazon a message.
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Why does the Vatican have lightning rods?
Explaining the unknown by means of the unobservable is always a perilous business.
http://www.IHateGeorge-21stCenturyDigitalBoy-Lucas.com
09-13-00, 07:41 PM
#2
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Yes but did you tell him that amazon has a terms/conditions of service/purchase link?
Give it a rest. So you didn't get your DVDs at the low low price. I have never heard so much bellyaching in my life.
Amazon gets fined...then you know what happens...DVD prices go up.
Give it a rest. So you didn't get your DVDs at the low low price. I have never heard so much bellyaching in my life.
Amazon gets fined...then you know what happens...DVD prices go up.
09-13-00, 07:44 PM
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Red Dog
Yes but did you tell him that amazon has a terms/conditions of service/purchase link?
Give it a rest. So you didn't get your DVDs at the low low price. I have never heard so much bellyaching in my life.
Amazon gets fined...then you know what happens...DVD prices go up
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Prices go up, we shop elsewhere, amazon goes bankrupt. Sounds fair to me.
09-13-00, 07:50 PM
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Yeah but it is not that simple...when a major etailer goes out of business, DVDs will go up in price in general. Haven't you noticed how few deals/coupons there are since Reel shut down.
As far as the offer/acceptance argument (yes I am a lawyer as well), my take on it would be that when they send a shipping notice, that creates the contract because it specifically says on their website: "If an item's correct price is higher than our stated price, we contact you for instructions before shipping," and that is also when they charge your CC. The confirmation notice is simply a notice that they received your order.
Quit your crying.
[This message has been edited by Red Dog (edited September 13, 2000).]
As far as the offer/acceptance argument (yes I am a lawyer as well), my take on it would be that when they send a shipping notice, that creates the contract because it specifically says on their website: "If an item's correct price is higher than our stated price, we contact you for instructions before shipping," and that is also when they charge your CC. The confirmation notice is simply a notice that they received your order.
Quit your crying.
[This message has been edited by Red Dog (edited September 13, 2000).]
09-13-00, 11:54 PM
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I was hoping that someone would go forward with a legal claim. I hope the press picks up on this.
This isn't going to put anyone out of business. Bezos gets a good, well deserved spanking and public humiliation and life goes on. I hope everyone saved their emails - this is going to be the only way to get something out of Amazon.
Red Dog, do you get on the AMZN bus too late? If so, dump it!
This isn't going to put anyone out of business. Bezos gets a good, well deserved spanking and public humiliation and life goes on. I hope everyone saved their emails - this is going to be the only way to get something out of Amazon.
Red Dog, do you get on the AMZN bus too late? If so, dump it!
09-14-00, 02:50 AM
#8
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You guys are baby's. Contact your lawyer over a price error...LoL! That butter rang up at $1.79, but it says $1.49 right there! Im taking you ba*tards to court for millions!
I learned my lesson with court during the Buy.con fiasco.
I learned my lesson with court during the Buy.con fiasco.
09-14-00, 03:00 AM
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Actually, no. I'm not taking anyone to court. The state and city of New York are. My tax dollars support the Consumer Protection Division of the Attorney General's office, the FTC, and the Department of Justice.
Your's do too, so thank you for helping to pay these legal costs.
All it took was a few phone calls and two emails (less than a half hour of my time....which as a college student I have in spades).
Amazon can pay the fine, or they can fight it in court. Their lawyers probably cost somewhere around $400 an hour. Someone said they would get back at $.15 a minute, but a prefer a much faster and easier route.
Hopefully they'll fight it in court and lose. The fine is for $10,000, and lawyer's fees would be at least half that.
And for those who say that this raises Amazon's prices, I don't really give a **** , because I don't shop there anymore.
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Why does the Vatican have lightning rods?
Explaining the unknown by means of the unobservable is always a perilous business.
http://www.IHateGeorge-21stCenturyDigitalBoy-Lucas.com
This message has been edited by reserviordog on September 14, 2000 at 12:01 AM
Your's do too, so thank you for helping to pay these legal costs.
All it took was a few phone calls and two emails (less than a half hour of my time....which as a college student I have in spades).
Amazon can pay the fine, or they can fight it in court. Their lawyers probably cost somewhere around $400 an hour. Someone said they would get back at $.15 a minute, but a prefer a much faster and easier route.
Hopefully they'll fight it in court and lose. The fine is for $10,000, and lawyer's fees would be at least half that.
And for those who say that this raises Amazon's prices, I don't really give a **** , because I don't shop there anymore.
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Why does the Vatican have lightning rods?
Explaining the unknown by means of the unobservable is always a perilous business.
http://www.IHateGeorge-21stCenturyDigitalBoy-Lucas.com
This message has been edited by reserviordog on September 14, 2000 at 12:01 AM
09-14-00, 03:10 AM
#10
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waaa!!! waaahaa!!! that's the sound of a bitter angry guy sitting in his garage crying because he seriously believed that Amazon was going to ship out 10,000 copies of a box set that they would lose $60 each on. Am I the only one that didn't waste my time with it because I was realistic and knew no one would get a thing???
This just seems really petty and pathetic to me.
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The other 'E'
This just seems really petty and pathetic to me.
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The other 'E'
09-14-00, 03:18 AM
#11
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Well, that's your opinion.
I'm not bitter or sad. I just believe (as a finance/law major) that corporations need to do a better job of following the law.
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Why does the Vatican have lightning rods?
Explaining the unknown by means of the unobservable is always a perilous business.
http://www.IHateGeorge-21stCenturyDigitalBoy-Lucas.com
I'm not bitter or sad. I just believe (as a finance/law major) that corporations need to do a better job of following the law.
------------------
Why does the Vatican have lightning rods?
Explaining the unknown by means of the unobservable is always a perilous business.
http://www.IHateGeorge-21stCenturyDigitalBoy-Lucas.com
09-14-00, 05:03 AM
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And if someone were trying to hold you to an error you made, you would be whining about how unfair it was. You talk about fairness, but you don't want fairness. You want something for nothing.
09-14-00, 05:25 AM
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First of all, I'm curious about which regular user you are, hopping on with a new name to post a question. This topic has spurned many "new" users who come in to post a hate filled message and whom we never see again.
But you probably don't want to answer that.
In regard to your query, whomever you really are, I actually *am* for fairness. I believe a company needs to check about the legality of any action before they proceed with that action. Individuals, too. I also believe in accountability for one's actions, a viewpoint I acknowledge may be old-fashioned and out of date in this "victim of society, product of a broken home" world. In this case, amazon knowingly and willingly violated several FTC regulations, knowing full-well that each violation was punishable by a fine. The fact that their legal team didn't pick up on this astounds me. I am, of course, assuming that amazon.com has a legal team, but no self-respecting company with as much name-recognition as amazon doesn't.
This is a simple matter of a somewhat large, irresponsibly run company trying to strongarm their way around the law. The law exists for a reason, to provide order and stability.
I take it you're a stockholder who bought high and now realizes what a poor investment that was?
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Why does the Vatican have lightning rods?
Explaining the unknown by means of the unobservable is always a perilous business.
http://www.IHateGeorge-21stCenturyDigitalBoy-Lucas.com
This message has been edited by reserviordog on September 14, 2000 at 02:26 AM
But you probably don't want to answer that.
In regard to your query, whomever you really are, I actually *am* for fairness. I believe a company needs to check about the legality of any action before they proceed with that action. Individuals, too. I also believe in accountability for one's actions, a viewpoint I acknowledge may be old-fashioned and out of date in this "victim of society, product of a broken home" world. In this case, amazon knowingly and willingly violated several FTC regulations, knowing full-well that each violation was punishable by a fine. The fact that their legal team didn't pick up on this astounds me. I am, of course, assuming that amazon.com has a legal team, but no self-respecting company with as much name-recognition as amazon doesn't.
This is a simple matter of a somewhat large, irresponsibly run company trying to strongarm their way around the law. The law exists for a reason, to provide order and stability.
I take it you're a stockholder who bought high and now realizes what a poor investment that was?
------------------
Why does the Vatican have lightning rods?
Explaining the unknown by means of the unobservable is always a perilous business.
http://www.IHateGeorge-21stCenturyDigitalBoy-Lucas.com
This message has been edited by reserviordog on September 14, 2000 at 02:26 AM
09-14-00, 05:33 AM
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I am a new user, and have never posted something on this forum before. Not that that has anything to do with what I have said. You should make a good lawyer, as you are very good at skirting the issue.
Yes, I am a stock holder. I am in it for the long term, so I am not worried. I will make money on them.
As for your statement about Amazons actions, are you stating they did this on purpose? I am sure they would be interested in knowing of these accusations. I am no lawyer (baby lawyer intraining) like you, but I would wonder about the accountability of such statements.
Maybe, just maybe, it was an honest mistake. Wow, something you porbably have never made (forgot to write a check in the old ledger, forgot to pay a bill on time). I applaud you for you perfectness, and hope I never have the need to have you defend me. I would rather have someone who does not just assume, but gets the facts first.
Yes, I am a stock holder. I am in it for the long term, so I am not worried. I will make money on them.
As for your statement about Amazons actions, are you stating they did this on purpose? I am sure they would be interested in knowing of these accusations. I am no lawyer (baby lawyer intraining) like you, but I would wonder about the accountability of such statements.
Maybe, just maybe, it was an honest mistake. Wow, something you porbably have never made (forgot to write a check in the old ledger, forgot to pay a bill on time). I applaud you for you perfectness, and hope I never have the need to have you defend me. I would rather have someone who does not just assume, but gets the facts first.
09-14-00, 06:54 AM
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I must say I'm distressed with amount of bytching thats going on just because people couldn't get a cheaper price from a store.
Are we really that poor and worse off to complain about every cent we lose?
Now before everyone gets up me for being foolish etc, let me just say that I hunt for bargains just as much as the next person but when amazon pulls a stunt like they did, I just go on living the next day.
It isn't the first time an online store has bollocked the prices up and it won't be the last.
That's my 0.02 worth.
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Regards...
John 3:16
Are we really that poor and worse off to complain about every cent we lose?
Now before everyone gets up me for being foolish etc, let me just say that I hunt for bargains just as much as the next person but when amazon pulls a stunt like they did, I just go on living the next day.
It isn't the first time an online store has bollocked the prices up and it won't be the last.
That's my 0.02 worth.
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Regards...
John 3:16
09-14-00, 06:59 AM
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quote:<HR>Originally posted by Eclipse:
waaa!!! waaahaa!!! that's the sound of a bitter angry guy sitting in his garage crying because he seriously believed that Amazon was going to ship out 10,000 copies of a box set that they would lose $60 each on. Am I the only one that didn't waste my time with it because I was realistic and knew no one would get a thing???
This just seems really petty and pathetic to me.
<HR>
Eclipse-
Boy, you really told him huh! For Amazon to lose $60 a shot would never happen, right. Maybe next time before you jump down someones throat you'll know what your talking about first.
For the record, just a few days later Amazon discounted a different boxed set at a $125.00 loss from it's current price today.
Now how did you put that " waaa!!! waaahaa!!!"
DVD DEVIL
Bigstar.com - The Montgomery Wards of the internet!
Buy.com - Consistently inconsistent!
Amazon.com - Who?
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Born to be Badd!!!
This message has been edited by RMDVD on September 14, 2000 at 04:06 AM
09-14-00, 02:01 PM
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quote:<HR>Amazon gets fined...then you know what happens...DVD prices go up<HR>
Yeah ... they might go from 15% to 5% off ...
[QUOTE]Maybe, just maybe, it was an honest mistake. [\QUOTE]
Maybe (like the Pioneer Karaoke), but all evidence I see seems to point to the fact that it was deliberate move by Amazon and now they are trying to cover it up.
I really wouldn't expect an online company to have to honor a LEGITIMATE MISTAKE. The losses would be enormous. I may not be happy, but I can see their point. However Amazon's letter to Geoff was just a bunch of crap. He never explained how products that had been on their site for months suddenly had pricing errors ... or why they went back to their original price and were suddenly discounted heavily again.
I believe that if it was a mistake, it was probably a problem with their variable pricing software ... and if they want to play that game they should learn to live with the consequences. But if they are indeed trying to use us in some test, then those bast*rds need to honor their end.
It's people that complain about us crying that don't look at the whole picture. This kind of metality taken to an extreme would allow big companies to do what the hell they wanted because we are too weak and spineless to stand up to them.
09-14-00, 04:29 PM
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Why are people bitching about other people bitching?
1. amazon have admitted playing with prices
2. they used the marketing data (my personal details arent free)
3. they used the publicity
4. they offered an incentive to take part
5. they shipped to some IN STOCK OR NOT! (some bitched and they honored)
6. they said that the prices were correct and part of an experiment, t&c state that if the price is incorrect they can contact you to increase.
1. amazon have admitted playing with prices
2. they used the marketing data (my personal details arent free)
3. they used the publicity
4. they offered an incentive to take part
5. they shipped to some IN STOCK OR NOT! (some bitched and they honored)
6. they said that the prices were correct and part of an experiment, t&c state that if the price is incorrect they can contact you to increase.
09-14-00, 08:04 PM
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Who is so perfect, so holy, that he or she hasn't made a mistake, an error in the last week, or a month, or a year. I think amazon.com is a saint compared to lots of people - religious institutions through history have tortured and murdered innocent people - political parties have arranged riots that caused death - governments fight wars and cause deaths of millions - chemicals are added into cigarettes and soft drinks to increase addiction of consumers - amazon.com only caused us not to get a few lame dvds for a low price. Intentionally or not, do they really deserve to be punished for that? NO.
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Sleeper - dreaming life away -
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Sleeper - dreaming life away -
09-14-00, 08:05 PM
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Who is so perfect, so holy, that he or she hasn't made a mistake, an error in the last week, or a month, or a year. I think amazon.com is a saint compared to lots of people - religious institutions through history have tortured and murdered innocent people - political parties have arranged riots that caused death - governments fight wars and cause deaths of millions - chemicals are added into cigarettes and soft drinks to increase addiction of consumers - amazon.com only caused us not to get a few lame dvds for a low price. Intentionally or not, do they really deserve to be punished for that? NO.
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Sleeper - dreaming life away -
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Sleeper - dreaming life away -
09-14-00, 08:21 PM
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quote:<HR>Originally posted by [email protected]:
Why are people bitching about other people bitching?
<HR>
So that I can bitch about you bitching about them bitching about the other people bitching!!
09-14-00, 08:25 PM
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quote:<HR>Originally posted by reserviordog:
Well, that's your opinion.
I'm not bitter or sad. I just believe (as a finance/law major) that corporations need to do a better job of following the law.
<HR>
Oh your not bitter?? really??
I WISH I had your problems!
You need to get over this...why would you want amazon, who provide better customer service than just about any e-tailer to go out of business or pay for a lawsuit (and jack up prices)?
09-14-00, 10:59 PM
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If you think this was a mistake, I have a bridge you might be interested in. It was probably an experiment to see if the Top lists affect purchases. Plus its a lot of publicity on every single bargain site online. So when they got everyone interested, the ****ed over whoever ordered the sets.
When other stores make errors like this, they HONOR them!
When other stores make errors like this, they HONOR them!