Josh-da-man

There is much discussion about what is the best viewing order for the Star Wars films: Production order (4-5-6-1-2-3), internal chronology (1-2-3-4-5-6), or some custom order (4-5-1-2-3-6, among others).

But with the Hobbit and LOTR trilogies, there's really just production order (FOTR-TT-ROTK-AUJ-DOS-BOTFA) or by internal chronology (AUJ-DOS-BOTFA-FOTR-TT-ROTK).

So if you were going to show these films to someone who is unfamiliar with the story, which order would you go in?

As a general rule for such things, I usually go with production order, but with these films I'd probably go with internal chronology because A) nothing in the Hobbit really spoils anything in LOTR, except maybe for the appearance of Gollum; B) The LOTR trilogy is a stronger set of films than the Hobbit trilogy, so finishing with the Hobbit is kind of a letdown; C) The Hobbit (novel) was written before LOTR.

kd5

I would watch them in the way the story was told, from the humble beginnings with The Hobbit, through the Lord of the Rings trilogy. That is, once I have the Extended version of Battle...

Jackskeleton

I'm not even sure why this is a question. Both trilogies can stand on their own, but everything in the Hobbit really serves and builds up to LOTR that there's no point in showing them in reverse order.

Go Hobbit EE's on to LOTR EE. And all in one sitting if you're bold enough.

taffer

What's the reasoning behind watching the PT before ROTJ?


I have watched the LOTR EE's all in one day before. I would never do both EE trilogies in one day though. That would be at least 20 hours long.

Anyway, I prefer watching/reading things in production order. So LOTR first, then Hobbit. Star Wars OT first, then PT.

RocShemp

I plan to do a chronological marathon when I have BofFA on BD.

SIDE NOTE: Since WB is now into Dolby Atmos for home theater, I wonder if the initial BD releases of BotFA will be in Atmos or if they'll re-release the movies as such as part of their Diamond Luxe series. And, if so, will they annoyingly omit 3D as they did with Gravity?

RocShemp

I think it's to flesh out the "I am your father" reveal at the end of ESB, to better establish who the Emperor is, and the true relationship between Obi-Wan and Anakin.

Trevor

Now I want to watch all 6 EEs back to back. A gallon of Jolt, two pounds of dip, and 3 bags of Doritos should do.

Solid Snake

I'm not sure that dip will last that well to taste "fresh" or whatever. Depending on the type especially.

RocShemp

The LOTR EE's alone take about 12 hours (if you use the excessive fan club credits as a pee break/intermission). Not that I would know...

Trevor

Crap, why'd you have to go and mention the fan credits? I had the special $30 Fan Club Offer to get some doodads and my name in the credits sitting in my to-do pile for months, missed the deadline, and am going to cry now, again.

Obi-Wanma

I'd start them with LOTR, just because they're much better films, and I don't think anyone who isn't already indoctrinated to Tolkien would sit thru the Hobbit.

TomOpus

Yeah, if they aren't familiar then the first Hobbit movie could be confusing with all the Hobbits and their similar-sounding names.

Obi-Wanma

The reasoning given by proponents of this order is that it keeps most of the spoilers in-tact (except Leia), while still finishing on the high note of ROTJ. You watch in production order up thru the Vader revelation of Empire, then you watch the PT, as sort of a flashback to see the origin of Vader. Then finish with the saga's end point and Vader's redemption. I've always thought it was interesting, but never actually tried it with anyone.

mhg83

That would make one long ass epic shit flashback

E Unit

Yesterday, one of the Drafthouses here in town had a Middle Earth all day event showing the 6 movies, beginning with The Hobbit trilogy followed by the LOTR one. Along with a big ass menu.

Why So Blu?

I wish our Drafthouse in DTLA was open. This looks epic.

Why So Blu?

Since Battle of the Five Armies Extended Cut isn't out yet I can't say but as it stands I'd go with:

Fellowship of the Ring
Two Towers
Return of the King

Hobbit: Unexpected Journey
Hobbit: Desolation of Smaug
Hobbit: Battle of the Five Armies

creekdipper

LOR & then Hobbit (for reasons already mentioned).

The books should be read in order: Hobbit, then the trilogy. The Hobbit is a simple tale told simply; it serves as an appetizer for the much longer, more complex LOR.

With the films, the simple tale of the Hobbit has been extended into a bloated trilogy. Mind you, I like the films as an "alternate reality" version of the original...but I would think that watching it might actually discourage a few from seeing LOR since there are so many "action scenes" that seem to go on forever (diminishing returns) & someone unfamiliar with LOR might assume the same would be true for it.

As has been mentioned, the LOR trilogy are much better films (said without having seeing the final Hobbit movie). It's the same reason I'd watch Star Wars in the original production order & then re-visit at some point watching chronological order.

Guru Askew

It stems from the desire to paint Lucas as so inept that every bit of Star Wars that he doesn't directly control seems "more like real Star Wars than anything Lucas has done in the last 20 years." Go anywhere where people are discussing a video game or a book or a comic or a cartoon and there are people who can't wait to say the same thing, as if they need their Lucas hatred validated every chance they get. And of course if some anonymous nerd "improves" on the two viewing orders created by Lucas (release order and chronological order) they eat it up.

its not entirely unique to Star Wars. People in several fan communities do arrogant stuff like making fan edits and re-sequencing classic albums. But few fan communities actively hate the creator of what they worship like Star Wars fans.

Truth is, the 4,5,1,2,3,6 order is insultingly idiotic. The PT has a longer runtime than the OT so repurposing it as a flashback that is nearly twice as long as what you've watched up to that point is awkward to the extreme. There isn't a storyteller alive who would derail their story at the 4-hour mark to focus on a 7-hour flashback, and of course this awkward interruption does no favors to the cliffhanger structure that exists between Empire and Jedi. It's literally the worst point between two films in the entire series you could possibly pick to take a detour of any kind.

Furthermore, some people defend it by saying that it maintains the Vader reveal while not ending on ROTS's downer ending. They never seem to mind that it ruins the Leia reveal which is even more poorly-handled than it is in release order.

I've actually unknowingly run into the guy who dared to dream this revolutionary viewing order online and he's a real piece of work. I basically made these same points on that other forum when it was being discussed. When his defense starts to peter out finally began playing the "internet fame" card and urged me to Google his name, as if it proved he wasn't just some anonymous internet nobody. I didn't even know it was "the guy" I was nerd-fighting before then and when I told him I wouldn't Google his internet nerd handle you could tell a little part of him died inside.

So in that case you have this anonymous internet loser whose brush with greatness is being name-checked on a couple of blogs. I could tell it meant a great deal to him and to me the image of this loser thinking he'd accomplished something by coming up with a hilariously-flawed fan viewing order is far more fascinating than anything that could be gleaned from watching an "improved" version.

There's just almost always some legitimate personality flaw or obsessive quirk over the people who come up with this shit. There's a Twin Peaks psycho fan who tries to get people to watch the FWWM "Missing Pieces" deleted scenes feature before the FWWM feature itself and if you can untangle all the bullshit you'll realize that he's obsessed with the notion of a Twin Peaks marathon ending with FWWM's final shot. So of course you would watch the deleted scenes first having no idea of their context, am I right?

This stuff strikes such a nerve with me because these people go on these forums and blogs and actually convince first-time viewers to use these orders. I don't care if its George Lucas or David Lynch, there's a line that has been crossed when you offer up your fan-imagined bullshit as something that should supersede or replace the intention of the creator, and in both of these cases these anonymous assbags do just that: they don't offer up an interesting alternate viewing order for the long-time viewer, they want their nonsense to become the norm and they want to be celebrated for it.

dhmac

My "Star Wars" order would be: watch non-SE 4-5-6 then listen to the soundtracks for 1-2-3 (but avoid watching those 3 movies at all cost!), then finish up by listening to the soundtracks for 4-5-6, then the soundtracks for 4-5 again (and again... and again). This order will leave the viewer loving "Star Wars" instead of mainly hating George Lucas.

For Peter Jackson's Tolkien-based movies, I think watching "The Hobbit" trilogy first then "The Lord of the Rings" trilogy makes the most sense, but leaving whether each movie viewed is the Theatrical Version or the Extended Edition up to the viewer.

bluetoast

Because the original release order in many forms of media can have foreshadowing or references meant for people who have seen them in release order, even if later installments take place in the past.

hdnmickey

I expect the eventual answer to be the custom cut that blends the stories together. They key will be blending the scenes that link both trilogies so you don't get the scene with Gandalf and Bilbo end the end of Armies partially repeated near the beginning of Fellowship. The Complete Middle Earth Saga, Parts I through VI?

Till then I agree with the idea of watching the Hobbit EE's followed by the LOTR EE's.

RoboDad

I have to disagree.

While it is true that the Hobbit movies have some bloat (things like the Tauriel/Kili romance), most of the added material can either be traced directly to - or is at least consistent with - the material in the LOTR appendices, and even with other materials such as Unfinished Tales.

For example, at the beginning of the second film there is a flashback scene of Gandalf and Thorin meeting in Bree. That event is recorded in Unfinished Tales, and although there are some differences in the film version (most likely for legal reasons), it "really happened". The same can be said of many of the events in the films. Many complained of the inclusion of Legolas in the films, since he wasn't mentioned in the book. But the fact is, he was a Sindarin Elf, and a member of Mirkwood's ruling class at the time of the Dwarves' quest, so it is not really any kind of stretch to assume that he was involved.

Tolkien himself even went so far as to explain the difference in tone between the books as being attributed to Bilbo. When he recorded his adventure with the Dwarves, he was still a (mostly) simple Hobbit, even though he was already under the influence of the Ring. Therefore, the story is told from a very simple perspective. The LOTR story was penned by Frodo after the destruction of the Ring, and therefore is much closer to reality, given his deeper perspective, and the hardships he endured. In a sense, Bilbo's version of "The Hobbit" is the "alternate reality". The actual events, however, were much more in line with what we saw in these films.

Were there theatrical embellishments in the films? Definitely. But were they any more egregious than the embellishments in the LOTR films? Not in my opinion.

Defiant1

FOTR
TTT
ROTK

And ignore the Hobbit Trilogy.

Solid Snake

Pretty much this. Where the freedom allowed Jackson to MOSTLY excel w/ LOTR. The Hobbit needed someone to snap some sense into him. Jesus. King Kong all the fuck over again. I LIKE King Kong but it is flawed. The Hobbit was that in wild excess. Even for 1 of the films.

Saying that I don't care to ever see Hobbit 1 and 2 ever again. But for 3 I want to see the EE if it does finish what it started and then left there, the whole Saruman taking care of Sauron. It just had to be cut. I can't believe that it was just left there even before it was filmed. They had to finish it, I want to see wtf happens.