necros

subject says it all

I've been looking at a toshiba 40" widescreen projection TV, dunno the # but it's around $2500 and supposed to be pretty popular

When I was at Bryn Mawr Sterio (home entertainment store chain in my area) they had other tvs around the same size, same price, but normal TVs, not the projection kind. I know projection sets can take up a LOT of space when you start getting the bigger ones...

but really, what's better? I'm gonna be getting a new tv soon, with no more than $3000 to spend.. why would I go with projection over a normal kind?

M i c h a e l

The simple answer: the screen is much larger.

ZenDog

quote:<HR>Originally posted by necros:
subject says it all

When I was at Bryn Mawr Sterio (home entertainment store chain in my area) they had other tvs around the same size, same price, but normal TVs, not the projection kind. I know projection sets can take up a LOT of space when you start getting the bigger ones...
<HR>

Are these other tvs that are around the same size and price also widescreen and HD ready? Most of the HD direct view sets that are out are not widescreen and the ones that are widescreen tend to be more expensive then their rear projection counterparts.

The bottom line is that direct view sets usually offer a better picture and can be used in rooms with a lot of light while RPTVs offer a bigger picture at a more affordable price.

The Toshiba TW40X81 that you are considering is a great set. You will be hard pressed to find another HD RPTV of equal quality in the price range that the Toshiba is offered at. If 40inches is not to small for your needs and the set is going to be placed in a low lit room then I would highly reccomend this tv. You will then need to purchase a progressive scan dvd player to enjoy the full benefits of this set.

necros

Right now the dvd player I have is the sony 360 or something like that.. it was around $250, their cheapest model. Does this have the progressive scan thingy?

I am actually planning to get a new and better DVD player, but not till after I get the tv. What I have now works great for now I think my dream DVD player would be one that has all the features plus some kind of read-ahead memory like a car CD player does, so that you never see the layer change. On my player I get a good 1 second pause and even though it's only 1 second, it's very noticable and annoying in some movies

ZenDog

quote:<HR>Originally posted by necros:
Right now the dvd player I have is the sony 360 or something like that.. it was around $250, their cheapest model. Does this have the progressive scan thingy?
<HR>

NOPE

BEC

W/a FRONT projection TV, in addition to a bigger screen, you don't have a big old box in between your speakers to compromise acoustical performance. You also don't have to settle for a horizontal center speaker just because it has to fit on top of your TV.

Still a little pricey and the picture quality isn't as good as a direct view, but damn even a $3k LCD projector is starting to look pretty good.

necros

what is progressive scan anyway? I'm guessing something that makes the picture look clearer?

BEC

A TV image in made up of 480 horizontal lines. Normal (NTSC)playback shows you 240 lines every 1/60 of a second - first the odd lines ("odd field") and then 1/60 of a second later, the offset even lines (even field). This is called "interlaced" and all the video sources you are probably familar with (except your computer) represent video this way.

Progressive scan shows 480 lines at once, either by showing both fields at once (rare and more expensive) or by doubling the line count of a given field.

Interlaced has a slight flicker quality. 1/60 is fast enough to look almost continuous, but occasionally you'll perceive screen flicker, like a deck of animated cells flipping. Progressive comes off as more film like, with less/no perceived flicker. Movement looks more natural, smoother. More noticeable on big screens.



[This message has been edited by BEC (edited November 06, 2000).]

matchpenalty

personally, I am not a fan of projection tv. I will wait for a reasonable direct view set. I don't need a 60+ inch screen to be happy. My viewing location also gets a fair amount of light. If I had a home theater room, I probably would still go with a big direct view/plasma.

necros

Hmm.. well the room my tv is in does get a lot of light.. but only for about 2 hours a day is it at the brightest when the sun is in the right spot, the rest is kinda normal. Is a bright room bad for the tv in any way, or like a film projector does it just make the images hard to see?

I don't only watch DVDs, I watch normal TV too and play video games, usually with the lights on at night.. will the tv not look as good with the lights on? I don't wanna sit at my PC in the dark just so I can look at the tv every 5 minutes

El Kabong

I got the Toshiba DW65X91 from Bryn Mawr in King Of Prussia. I watch normal tv on it also, mainly dvds though. It wouldn't fit down into my basement, so it's in the main living room. I can't completely block out the sun & while the image may be a bit brighter & crisper in total blackness, it still looks really good with light on it. Same goes with a light on at night. Even from the sides it looks fine, unless you're angled so the glare is too bad. I wouldn't worry about watching the way you want to.

jumbojp

If you are worried about light and prefer a direct view look around the smaller home theater shops for a Mitsubishi 40" direct view. I found one that was being used in the back HT show room of a small shop. It had only been played a few hours a week and was about 2 years old.

They aren't made anymore, but you may be able to find one. Other than that if you want a direct view you are stuck with the 36" ones or the 38" widescreen HDTV from RCA.

Frank S

quote:<HR>W/a FRONT projection TV, in addition to a bigger screen, you don't have a big old box in between your speakers to compromise acoustical performance.<HR>

How do you figure that RPTV's compromise speaker acoustics? Do you stack up your left, center, and right speakers in the center of the viewing area? With either a RPTV or FPTV you will need to have seperation between the Left & Right speakers so I fail to see your point! And as for the center speaker with a RPTV or FPTV you either have to place the speaker above or below the screen so there is no advantage either way.

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My DVD/LD List
My Home Theater Equipment

[This message has been edited by Frank S (edited November 08, 2000).]

ZenDog

quote:<HR>Originally posted by Frank S:
And as for the center speaker with a RPTV or FPTV you either have to place the speaker above or below the screen so there is no advantage either way.
<HR>

You couldn't be more wrong. There are advantages to having a vertical standing center channel under a FPTV. Try reading this post and see if this clears up some of your confusion. http://talk.dvdtalk.com/ubb/Forum5/HTML/005032.html

BEC

quote:<HR>Originally posted by Frank S:
How do you figure that RPTV's compromise speaker acoustics?<HR>

Diffraction and reflection. A large object placed in between your speakers creates secondary reflections from both the front drivers and rear ports affecting clarity. Wave fronts that are supposed to bounce off the back wall and reach the viewer from the screens direction can be partly blocked by a massive RPTV - a problem for bi-polars. You can get wave fronts that you aren't supposed to hear or miss ones you should hear.

By far, the best performance from your front speakers will be when there in nothing in between them, as most people w/dedicated music systems will attest. HT, of course, requires compromises, eg, a center speaker. A 6', 1000lbs acoustic block in between speakers happens to be a fairly substantial compromise.

quote:<HR> Do you stack up your left, center, and right speakers in the center of the viewing area?<HR>

Me personally? No. I placed my speakers away from my TV until it adversely affected the viewing experience.

I'm recently bought a LCD FPTV and I've noticed my HT's soundstage has been much larger and clearer without a "modest sized" Sony XBR and AV cabinet in between. The comparable RPTV I thought of buying was much larger.

quote:<HR>With either a RPTV or FPTV you will need to have seperation between the Left & Right speakers so I fail to see your point!<HR>

If you can't see the point, try to HEAR it. Separation certainly helps, but you are limited in what you can do by either room size or screen size. In terms of the latter, separating speakers much further than the screen leads to distracting effects - sounds can seem disconnected from the screen action.
And with a big RPTV there still is a 6', 1000lbs divider in between your speakers. They were not designed with this in mind.

quote:<HR> And as for the center speaker with a RPTV or FPTV you either have to place the speaker above or below the screen so there is no advantage either way.<HR>

No. A FPTV fabric screen can be mounted higher than the speakers, where the center and fronts can easily be all identical and at the same height, just below the lower edge of the screen. I suppose you could TRY to raise a 1000lbs RPTV up 2-4 feet. W/a fabric screen, you can even put the speakers behind the screen at mid-height like in theaters.

A FPTV simply involves LESS acoustic compromises than a RPTV or a direct view. You get the maximum unobstructed soundstage for you speakers, fewer center speaker restrictions, more flexibility. My system's acoustic performance is better because of it and mine isn't the only testimonial. YMMV.









[This message has been edited by BEC (edited November 08, 2000).]

necros

Here's another question about projection TVs that I thought up last night while pondering life, the universe and everything...

Are you supposed to sit far away from them?

When I go to the HT stores and look at projection TVs, they don't look all that great up close, and since the stores aren't huge and/or crammed with other tvs, it's not always easy to see it from far away.

The room my TV will be going in... I'll be sitting probably 7' from the tv, maybe 8 I never really measured, but it's slightly farther away than a dreamcast controller's cord making me have to by those silly extenion chords that get disconnected all the time :/

Anyhow, is that too close? The 40" toshiba is most likely what I'll be getting, but when the time comes after xmas, I may happen to see something I like better.. Will most projection TVs look better if you sit far away, or does it not matter so much?

ZenDog

quote:<HR>Originally posted by necros:
Will most projection TVs look better if you sit far away, or does it not matter so much?
<HR>

It doesn't really make any difference how close you sit. The reasons that the RPTVs look so crappy up close when you are at B&M stores is because they usually have the brightness turned way up. When a program such as Video Essentials is used on a RPTV it makes the picture much darker. Once you run one of these programs on your new tv you will see a dramatic difference in brightness and picture quality.

BEC

A comfortable distance is roughly twice the screen diagonal/width (that's about what it is mid-row in a theater). For a 40" screen, 7 or 8 ft seems just fine. 12" is probably too far, 4 too close. Whatever makes you forget the screen borders/TV lines.

What Zendog said about picture quality is right on the money. Calibration makes a huge difference between in-store and in-home display quality.

necros

OK, then how do I calibrate my tv?

And will that work for a normal TV? I have a plain ole 25" sanyo right now but if I can get that looking better too then I'd like to try

Oatsdad

The simplest way to calibrate your TV is to use "Video Essentials" or a similar product. Lots of people like Avia, but I've never used it. There's also "Ultimate DVD Platinum". Dunno which is truly "best", but each will help...

patrckpiteo

I use the "Ultimate DVD Platinum". Then I tweak it a little more to my taste. That seems to work pretty good.