Supermallet

Given the chaotic nature of what occurred today, here is what I am going to do from now on (copied from the Feedback thread):

Each week I will post a match-up of two directors with a poll. This will ensure there is no clutter on the first page of the forum. This will give members a chance to discuss the two directors in depth, and could even give people time to see some of the movies mentioned in the discussion if they feel motivated enough. This will allow for a more robust discussion in any given thread, instead of a glut of threads that are constantly jumping up and down the page.

At the end of the week, I will post the new match-up. I won't close the old one, but I imagine that after a week the old one will have naturally died down anyway. If, for some reason, there are three or more match-up threads on the first page at the start of the new week, I won't post a match-up until the other ones die down.

I will list these as ONE AND ONLY threads, and if someone else tries to start them, I will close them, because otherwise we may risk the threads being deleted again.

Since the existing threads were deleted, I will use directors that were already listed (while adding in new ones), although I may mix up the matches to foster new discussion (and since some of the match-ups were odd, like Lynch and Tarantino).

Since it is now Monday, I will post one now, and I will post a new one each Monday.

This week is Stanley Kubrick and Martin Scorsese. Both lauded and praised, both considered two of the heavyweights of film. Let's discuss the works of these two cinematic giants.

Supermallet

Kubrick's filmography from IMDB:
Eyes Wide Shut (1999)
... aka "EWS" - USA (promotional abbreviation)

Full Metal Jacket (1987)
... aka "Stanley Kubrick's Full Metal Jacket" - USA (poster title)
The Shining (1980)

Barry Lyndon (1975)
A Clockwork Orange (1971)
... aka "Stanley Kubrick's A Clockwork Orange" - USA (poster title)

2001: A Space Odyssey (1968)
Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb (1964)
... aka "Dr. Strangelove" - USA (short title)
Lolita (1962)
Spartacus (1960)
... aka "Spartacus: Rebel Against Rome" - USA (poster title)

Paths of Glory (1957)
The Killing (1956)
Killer's Kiss (1955)
The Seafarers (1953)
Fear and Desire (1953)
Day of the Fight (1951)
Flying Padre: An RKO-Pathe Screenliner (1951)


Scorsese's filmography from IMDB:
Sinatra (2011) (announced)
Hugo Cabret (2011) (filming)
Living in the Material World: George Harrison (2011) (post-production)

"Boardwalk Empire" (1 episode, 2010)
- Pilot (2010) TV episode
Shutter Island (2010)

Shine a Light (2008)
... aka "Shine a Light: The IMAX Experience" - USA (IMAX version)
... aka "The Rolling Stones: Shine a Light" - Japan (English title)
The Key to Reserva (2007)
The Departed (2006)
No Direction Home: Bob Dylan (2005)
The Aviator (2004)
Lady by the Sea: The Statue of Liberty (2004) (TV)
Michael Jackson: Number Ones (2003) (V) (video "Bad")
"The Blues" (1 episode, 2003)
- Feel Like Going Home (2003) TV episode
Gangs of New York (2002)
The Concert for New York City (2001) (TV) (segment "The Neighborhood")

Bringing Out the Dead (1999)
My Voyage to Italy (1999)
... aka "Il mio viaggio in Italia" - Italy (original title)
Kundun (1997)
Casino (1995)
Michael Jackson: Video Greatest Hits - HIStory (1995) (V) (video "Bad")
A Personal Journey with Martin Scorsese Through American Movies (1995) (TV)
The Age of Innocence (1993)
Cape Fear (1991)
Goodfellas (1990)
... aka "GoodFellas" - USA (poster title)
Made in Milan (1990)

New York Stories (1989) (segment "Life Lessons")
The Last Temptation of Christ (1988)
Location Production Footage: The Last Temptation of Christ (1988) (V)
Bad (1987) (V)
The Color of Money (1986)
"Amazing Stories" (1 episode, 1986)
... aka "Steven Spielberg's Amazing Stories" - USA (complete title)
- Mirror, Mirror (1986) TV episode
After Hours (1985)
The King of Comedy (1982)
... aka "King of Comedy" - Japan (English title)
Raging Bull (1980)

American Boy: A Profile of: Steven Prince (1978)
The Last Waltz (1978)
New York, New York (1977)
Taxi Driver (1976)
Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore (1974)
Italianamerican (1974)
Mean Streets (1973)
Boxcar Bertha (1972)
Street Scenes (1970)
... aka "Street Scenes 1970" - USA (alternative title)

The Big Shave (1968)
Who's That Knocking at My Door (1967)
... aka "I Call First" - USA (original title)
... aka "J.R." - USA (reissue title)
It's Not Just You, Murray! (1964)
What's a Nice Girl Like You Doing in a Place Like This? (1963)

Vesuvius VI (1959)

Travis McClain

If we were studying film, I'd expect Martin Scorsese to be our professor...and "Kubrick-ology" to be an upper level, specialized course. Scorsese's works almost always belie a sense of reality; they often feel more like documentaries than works of fiction. Maybe it's the way he frames his shots, or the performances he coaxes out of his casts; I don't know. But I'll tell you this: the guy absolutely lives and breathes cinema. I can think of a handful of people up in his league when it comes to knowledge and enthusiasm, but I can't think of anyone who would rate more highly on either scale than him.

With Kubrick, the appeal is the depth and layers of his works. I'm sure members are about tired of me crushing on Eyes Wide Shut, but it really is true that I find new things every time I see the film. It got under my skin in a way few films ever have, and I've spent a decade-plus trying to learn why that is. Along the way, I've learned some things about the film, and some things about myself, as well. I believe there is no greater purpose for art than to provoke introspection, and Eyes Wide Shut is art of the highest order.

So for me, it comes down to the expert craftsman Scorsese, who knows the ins and outs of his trade well enough to be legitimately considered a "guru," or Kubrick. who produced the kind of art that can touch the soul? I must go with the artist; for all my admiration of his skill, I've yet to be affected by a work of Scorsese's on such a personal level.

RagingBull80

First of all, I would like to thank Suprmallet for showing up with the riot-shotgun and getting this shit under control.

Secondly, I'm going to need more time to ponder on this one. This may be the hardest choice I've ever had to make.

Eric D.

Thanks to whoever cleared up all those threads today, it was pretty ridiculous. The idea of one a week makes a lot more sense.

As for this topic, for me it's a rather easy choice with Kubrick coming out on top. He made so many different and classic films that he set the bar high and paved the way for many other great filmmakers. While I enjoy Scorsese (Shutter Island is currently my favorite film of the year), his movies have never floored me the way Kubrick's have. They also feel pretty safe compared to the kind of work that Kubrick was putting out. In my opinion, Scorsese got caught up with making too many movies about NY and organized crime. While all those films vary from good to great, it grew kind of stale after a while. I'm glad to see that Scorsese is finally trying out new genres and I really hope he keeps exploring different cinematic paths because it appears to be working for him.

jrsl76

2 of my top 3 directors. Scorsese used to be my favorite. Kubrick is my favorite for a long time now.

Solid Snake

Kubrick all the way...love Scorsese but...Kubrick is what I think can be totally true to most...A master of Filmmaking. Kubrick did things that only he could do. Scorsese does things that he does but not beyond the realms of ability for other great directors. Kubrick did things that should've been impossible to do..but he did it.

Ash Ketchum

I went with Scorsese because of his three greatest movies, MEAN STREETS, TAXI DRIVER and GOODFELLAS. They all struck a chord with me in a way Kubrick's films never did. Kubrick's a great filmmaker but he spent so much time making so few films. I mean, he only did three films from 1980-1999 and none of them were as good as any of his earlier films. And only five films from 1971-99. If you date it from 1968, after 2001: A SPACE ODYSSEY, that's five films in 30 years. The lack of activity diminishes his standing.

PopcornTreeCt

Tough call.

I went with Kubrick. Kubrick wasn't afraid to go to other genres and he ended up making some of the greatest films ever made in other genres.

jmu878

Its tough, but I gotta go with Scorsese. While both have incredibly diverse resumes to their credit, Goodfellas as well as The Last Waltz are both in my top 5. Although I do love FMJ, The Shining and ACWO.

Travis McClain

Yeah, but the same is true of David Lean. Consider:

1957 The Bridge on the River Kwai
1962 Lawrence of Arabia
1965 Doctor Zhivago
1970 Ryan's Daughter
1984 A Passage to India

Should the quantity of films really be a deciding factor in evaluating the quality of the work? I realize this is entirely subjective, but I don't see the value of massive output. I'm not interested in how many films someone made; I'm interested in whether or not those films mean anything to me.

Mr. Cinema

Kubrick

kd5

Even though Martin Scorsese has some wonderful movies out, Stanley Kubrick's work holds considerably more interest for me. +1 for Kubrick. -kd5-

Goat3001

Easy for me... Scorsese. He's my favorite director and I've enjoyed everything he's done. My favorite is Goodfellas. Taxi Driver is a close second. I'm also a big fan of his "Leo Era" movies. Aviator and The Departed were great and I even enjoyed Shutter Island (which is a lot better after a second viewing when you can see the film in a different way).

And who isn't excited for "Boardwalk Empire"?

Don't get me wrong, I think Kubrick is fantastic. I've enjoyed everything I've seen although I admit I haven't seen everything he's done. My problem is that his movies don't have much rewatchability for me. 2001 was an amazing movie, I just can't see myself sitting down and watching it again. Same with Full Metal Jacket. A Clockwork Orange is the only one I can see myself watching again.

nando820

Damnn YOU!! jk making me chose between Kubrick and Scorsese

Supermallet

The lack of activity diminishes his standing? That's a bizarre statement. Since when was quantity more important than quality?

As some of you may have gathered from the Kubrick vs. Coppola thread, I think Kubrick is the best filmmaker of all time. When he touched a genre, he made the definitive statement. 2001: A Space Odyssey is, imo, the greatest film yet made. I've seen it three times in 70mm and once on 35mm with 4-track sound, and it's the most moving experience I've had in a theater (tied with Blade Runner final cut). If he had only made 2001, that alone would qualify him to be among the greatest filmmakers. But when you add in The Killing, Paths of Glory, Spartacus, Dr. Strangelove, A Clockwork Orange, Barry Lyndon, The Shining, Full Metal Jacket, and Eyes Wide Shut, well, it's unbeatable.

Solid Snake

so......who'd you choose?

PopcornTreeCt

bluetoast

It wasn't really a lack of activity....during that time he did years of research for films that he wouldn't even end up making.

Solid Snake

Yeah....Kubrick was crazy intense about the research. Hell...I'd love to see the stuff he had on Napoleon...the film he never got to make. He was working on that thing a very long time.

Travis McClain

I believe someone actually published his notes for that project recently. It's a super-limited, huge and outrageously expensive volume, but it's out there. Not sure who published it, or whether it's already sold out, but you should be able to Google it to find out more.

Supermallet

http://www.taschen.com/pages/en/cata...never_made.htm

Solid Snake

.....................yes...........now let's hope my college payments are due..too soon...I might have to do the payment plan for this.....yum...Kubrick research work on film that never happened....delicious...


EDIT: HOLY FUCKING SHIT! I can't pay that! Maybe $300 max..but jesus titty fucking christ...not that for THAT price. Price being....$1,500

Travis McClain

Like I said...it's 'spensive. Somehow, though, it just seems right that the only publication of those notes and plans would be something so exclusive. Given that Napoleon has always fascinated me, I'd love to sift through Kubrick's research--it's supposed to be not just extensive, but comprehensive.

Maybe I could coax an old professor to lobby for the university to acquire it for the library. Not sure what rights I have as an alumnus to avail myself of library content from there anymore, but even if I could just sit down with it once I'd be happy.

Numanoid

Kubrick fans should definitely check out Stanley Kubrick's Boxes, a documentary about his obsessive note-taking and planning. He left behind entire buildings full of notes on the movies he did and did not make. Amazing, and a little scary.

You can watch the whole thing on Youtube. Here's part one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBIP6ZbRqbQ (embedding is disabled)