funstan

The past few Survivor threads have broken down and been about Russell and the conversations have been heated at times. He has a group of followers who think he is the greatest ever. Some think he plays great but lacks the social skill needed to win Survivor. So instead of every weekly Survivor thread turning into the Russell thread, lets hash it out here.

Red Dog

I wouldn't call him the best, but he's one of the best ever.

Wolf359

I think he may be the best. At the very least, he has brought a lot of life back into the show. The Survivor threads are long and entertaining now.

OldDude

I voted "total douche" however, I also acknowledge he is a master manipulator. I hesitate to say master strategist, and I frankly hope his style of plays fails and he gets his come-uppance.

I have a little trouble believing he is a rich oil dealer, but I have the distinct impression I would not want to buy oil from that man.

Survivor requires a balance between succeeding personally and helping the team succeed. He lost me when he poured out water in the prior season and hid the machete in this season. He is a definitional poster-child for the word "scuzz-ball."

(I probably hold a minority opinion.)

rfduncan

Floating in the toilet with the rest?

JuryDuty

If he could play the social game slightly better, not irritating everyone, I'd say he was the best ever--because then he'd get the jury votes, too. But he's darn close, if he could just learn to squelch his ego here and there.

outcastja

mwbmis wrote a damn good wrap up of the great players from each season
http://forum.dvdtalk.com/10074590-post133.html

After reading that list it's hard to even rank him on the top five players of all time. I do think he's probably the best player to never to win the game though. He was able to bring his tribe which was outnumbered to the top 5 and won the final immunity challenge to get to the finals.

Axeramm

His ego is his biggest problem. If he would stop saying "I" so damn much when talking to people he would be better off.

mwbmis

I've never understood the fascination in declaring the "newest thing" the best ever; it's just short attention span. Clearly Russell is not the best Survivor player if only b/c he didn't win. The "best ever" would win. Rob never was the best ever either.

As for other Russell faults...he's a poor leader. There is a reason why Russell led teams have basically never won a challenge. Also, his two big breaks in Survivor have come almost entirely b/c he's blindsided people with individual immuinty. The best of the best aren't really ever in danger of going home b/c they leverage their relationships.

Is Russell a good player...of course. Is he overrated...in my opinion he most certainly is. Part of that is the bizarre editing choice to jam him down our throats the last two years. I've even quit watching this season for the first time in twenty seasons b/c I'm just so tired of Russell. The show is just not fun for me anymore.

Where would I rank him? Right now, he's among the best of the non-winner group (in order by season...Colby, Rob (C & M), Twila, Rafe, Yau, Amanda, Russell).

dino88

Wasn't that his first episode?

Shinobi

If you don't win the game (and then blame it on the Jury, rather than your own shortcomings) then you're not the best Survivor player.

The best Survivor player, whoever that may be, has a million dollars in his or her pocket.

OldDude

Yes, and he has done nothing to redeem himself.

OscarBluth

Nah, I'll keep calling him great in the weekly threads.

dolphinboy

If you come back into this thread and have a moment, please remind me of how Colby lost? I know you seem to remember every moment from every season. Didn't he dominate his season and manage to be a nice guy to most?

My recollection is that he lost because he kept his promise to Tina and she won because she was really liked. Is that really what happened? If he broke the promise with Tina, would the jury possibly have turned on him anyway? And why did Tina win over Colby? Was it only because she was liked and thought of as the "sweet" schoolteacher, because, if so, he would have been just as unfortunate with his jury experience as Russell fans claim he was the victim of last season?

GuessWho

He's the winner of Best Wardrobe

mnementh

^ Where's my eye bleach?

mwbmis

After the Skupin injury and the Jeff vote off (ending the split numbers), Colby basically ran away with the game, but he had made that final 2 promise to Tina. When it got to final 3 and Colby won immunity he would have wiped the board (and probably been the first unanimous winner) if he had taken Keith. No one really liked Keith. At the very worst it would have been 5-2 (with Jerri & Tina voting for Keith).

As to why he lost to Tina...it was almost entirely a female empowerment thing. Alicia and Elisabeth voted for Tina pretty much entirely because she was a woman, and they liked her. Jerri voted for Tina b/c she was still pissed at Colby. Keith voted for Tina b/c he was closer to her, and he was a little pissed at Colby for not taking him to the end.

Colby was nothing like Russell. Other than Jerri everyone else thought Colby was deserving. It wasn't an anti-Colby vote.

By the way, I still sort of read the other thread, and you aren't the only one who has a thing for Courtney. Even though she way too thin, I still love me some Courtney. I think it's her personality.

the big train

I feel like anyone who comes to depend on the hidden immunity idol is automatically disqualified from any discussion of great players. A guy can be a great player and use them, but being in a position where he has to use one is poor play, in my opinion.

It's kind of the same way with people who win a lot of challenges. Someone like Terry I feel was not a great player because he had to win tons of challenges to get as far as he did. However, I think Tom Westman was a great player because he won tons of challenges but also had strong enough partnerships that he didn't need to win all of them.

I value the challenge winners more because it takes a great deal of skill and determination to win a lot of challenges, whereas the idol junkies just have to know how to read a clue.

davidh777

better than referring to himself in the third person

cdollaz

How can you assume that Russell and Terry needed immunity idols and winning challenges to get as far as they did?

Russell found the idols, so he used them. Terry was capable of winning the challenges, so he did.

That doesn't mean that couldn't have gotten as far without either of those things.

TwineTime

Is Heroes vs. Villains your first Russell season?

mwbmis

Russell was voted out last season and only survived b/c he had a hidden immunity idol that people didn't know he had. Given the nature of his relationship (or complete and total lack thereof) with the people that voted him out I think it's fairly safe to assume that he needed the immunity idol to stay in the game.

As for Terry and his immunity run...I think we know he wouldn't have b/c until near the very end those people he was against would never talk strategy with him b/c they always assumed he would be going at some point. When he never stopped winning, Shane and then Danielle finally tried to work a little something out in case he won all the way through. As soon as he lost immunity, he got voted out.

dino88

I'm pissed off. Why doesn't Natalie get her own thread?

mwbmis

She doesn't need her own thread. She is a Survivor winner and has a million dollars. She's also not on the current show.

Cellar Door

Russell isn't the best ever, but he is a great self-promoter. He's claimed so often on the show that he's the greatest Survivor ever, that people are starting to believe him just because he says so.

Just a few off the top of my head that are better: Richard Hatch, Yul, Tom the fireman, Parvati, Chris (winner from Vanuatu). And one could make a case for others.

I mean, really, the best Survivor ever does not lose 7-2 in the final tribal council.

I guess if he wins this season then we can say at least he's in the top 20.