Michael_M

I just can't figure out why anyone who already has a 5.1 system should upgrade to 6.1 now or in a few months time. Correct me if I'm wrong, but in order to be able to have an additional surround channel, you have to purchase one of the latest amplifiers that support Dolby EX or/and DTS ES. To the best of my knowledge only the latest and most expensive amps have such a decoder - like the Yamaha DSP-AX1 if I'm not wrong - and the thought of paying that much for just an additional channel doesn't sound that exciting. Additionaly, the titles which support the above formats are extremely hard to find since the only ones I know are Fight Club and the new T2 and planned releases that support them are also few, at the moment anyway.
Also, with the astonishing rate in which new and improved formats appear, meaning 7.1, 8.1, 30.1 etc are not that far away, such an upgrade can hardly be called an investment. What are your thoughts on this?

[This message has been edited by Michael_M (edited August 01, 2000).]

doroshjt

I would agree that if you already have a 5.1 system it would be rather prudent to upgrade now, I think the Denon 5800 is the only one that has both DD and DTS 6.1 I know that the Outlaw 1050 has DD Ex and is rather "inexpensive" for 600 bucks, I'll be upgrading from DPL to the outlaw as soon as I find the cash. Then I think I would wait till the 7.1 to upgrade next, I don't think most homes could stand have any more speakers than that unless they were fortunate enough to have a dedicated home theater room. One day for me hopefully.

brilon

If you have the room,it is worth it.You can either get the new Outlaw or you can get an add on unit for $299.99.There are 2 such components and for the life of me,I cannot remember there names right now.It was not a big deal for me to upgrade because I already had a Sherbourn 5/1500 to go along with my Denon AVR-4800.I just assigned the mains amp to the EX channels.Here are some other titles besides what you mentioned that are out now that support EX and a few upcoming.

Toy Story 1 and 2
Mission To Mars
The World Is Not Enough
The Messenger
The Bone Collector
Bats
The Haunting
Austin Powers-Spy Who Shagged Me

DaveMorales

Both Toy Stories will be released with Dolby 5.1 and not THX EX tracks... sorry

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brilon

Think again.Go to the Dolby site and see for yourself.They had it listed with the EX enhancement.Where do you think I got this information.Try this link www.smr-home-theatre.org/surroundex/index
Click on their homepage and scrool down a little bit and the information will be on the left side of the page.

[This message has been edited by brilon (edited August 01, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by brilon (edited August 01, 2000).]

DaveMorales

quote:<HR>Originally posted by brilon:
Think again.Go to the Dolby site and see for yourself.They had it listed with the EX enhancement.Where do you think I got this information.Try this link www.smr-home-theatre.org/surroundex/index
Click on their homepage and scrool down a little bit and the information will be on the left side of the page.

[This message has been edited by brilon (edited August 01, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by brilon (edited August 01, 2000).]<HR>

Point 1: THX EX did not exist in 1995 when Toy Story was released so it does not have a matrixed 6.1 score.
Point 2: Even though Toy Story 2 was released theatrically with a THX EX score it WILL NOT carry the same mix onto DVD. The DVD releases, the single disc, double-disc box, and Ultimate Toy Box versions will include traditional Dolby 5.1 mixes. For whatever reason Di$ney has decided to alter the audio.

This fact can be confirmed by reputable sources such as Mao and Rutger_s.


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doroshjt

Toy Story 1 and 2 is listed at amazon as having dd 5.1 and (THX Surround EX)

I thought THX was sort of a certification thing, so what is this THX Surround EX?

Josh H

I don't think it worth it unless your an audiophile and have the cash to spend. I don't care that much about sound. I only spent about 600 bucks on my 5.1/dts system. It will take something more than an center rear to convince me to upgrade. I had a plain stereo system before, which is obviously light years behind DTS, and it will take something that is that much better than DTS to make me upgrade again.

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Josh Hinkle
My DVD's
My CD's

DaveMorales

quote:<HR>Originally posted by doroshjt:
Toy Story 1 and 2 is listed at amazon as having dd 5.1 and (THX Surround EX)

I thought THX was sort of a certification thing, so what is this THX Surround EX?<HR>

THX does indeed do certification of theaters, consumer electronics, and home video (VHS, LD, and DVD). In addition, they recently partnered with Dolby Labs and developed an enhancement to Dolby Digital 5.1 where a matrixed rear center would be incorporated into the data stream. Star Wars: Episode I the Phantom Menace was the first to make use of the technology theatrically. There are approximately 8 DVDs currently on the market that incorporate this technology. Only a receiver equipped with a THX EX decoder will be able to recognize the "flags" in the data stream and be able to extrapolate the additional audio channel. DTS incorporates a similar system in their 1st generation DTS ES setup (Bone Collector) and have since moved on to a fully discrete 6.1 sound scheme (The Haunting).


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doroshjt

Dave, say I have an outlaw and hook up a center rear using a standard 5.1 track, will the surrounds remain discrete or will the entire rear blend all together because of the center channel. Any knowledge of this?

DaveMorales

Not totally sure, I have not seen or used the new Outlaw. My initial reaction would be no. If you were playing back a traditional 5.1 Dolby Digital mix, The Abyss for example, I don’t think the Outlaw would make use of the rear center. My impression (and again I could be very wrong) is that the decoder and additional amp will only be enabled with EX content, it wont matrix non-EX sound scores. There are devices, the specific details of which escape me, that can be had for around $300 that will matrix a rear center in any 5.1 mix. Essentially they are analog signal processors that when paired with an additional amp will provide one or two additional channels. DVDFile.com did a good review of this recently and they mentioned Dragonheart as a good example of its capability (Draco circling Dennis on the horse and sound panning from left rear to rear center to right rear). Beyond that receivers such as the new Onkyo 989 and the new Yamaha DSPAX1 (fantastic receiver!) will have similar preemptive matrixing systems.

Hope this sheds some light.


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A free Tibet - Keep Hope alive...

doroshjt

I'll probably be getting an outlaw by the end of the summer and I'll let everyone know how that goes, I don't think I can beat it for that price, $600, I remember reading somewhere that someone said that ID4 though not an EX sounded incredible with the rear center and the outlaw, I hope it does, so stay tuned. And thanks for your input dave.

[This message has been edited by doroshjt (edited August 02, 2000).]

brilon

And where did Mao and Rutger_s get this information?.Did you go to the link I gave you on this matter?.That site gives ALL the titles with EX capabilities with Toy Story 1 being 5.1 and 2 having the Dolby Digital EX.

[This message has been edited by brilon (edited August 02, 2000).]

JimRochester

Since my HT room is also my family room the only possible places for a rear channel would be hanging in the window or in the fireplace. I think I'll pass.

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Topgun94

I think its been reported in several places that Disney does not currently support EX sound on their DVD releases. I guess we will know for sure when the DVD is released.

DaveMorales

quote:<HR>Originally posted by brilon:
And where did Mao and Rutger_s get this information?.Did you go to the link I gave you on this matter?.That site gives ALL the titles with EX capabilities with Toy Story 1 being 5.1 and 2 having the Dolby Digital EX.

[This message has been edited by brilon (edited August 02, 2000).]<HR>

Ok, I will lay this out one more time for you, slowly so maybe it will seep in this time...

#1 Toy Story 1 came out four years before THX EX existed. Toy Story 1 was released in 1995 with Dolby Digital 5.1 and DTS sound mixes. The first film to feature THX EX (and the entire reason it was developed) was Episode I in 1999. Period. End of story, Toy Story does not have an EX mix.

#2 Disney has publicly announced that they will not be supporting THX EX beyond their initial title released, Mission to Mars. Disney believes that the technology is gimmicky and not worth the added production cost. This FACT has been confirmed by editors of reputable sites such as DVDFile and the DigitalBits speaking with Disney PR folks.

#3 Rutger_s and Mao are some of the most reputable and accurate individuals in this community when it comes to release information and each are damn near dead on accurate when it comes to specifics and features. If you don’t believe me, ask them.

Just because Dolby lists TS2 as being in EX, which it was theatrically (and if you read earlier posts you see that I stated this long ago) does not mean that the exact same mix, complete with the EX "flags" will be carried onto disc. Period.


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exm

Not everyone has the money to buy a Lexicon, but with my Lexicon EX certainly rules the planet. It gives an extra dimension but one thing is important: PLACEMENT! Make sure you can place them correcty.

As far as Toy Story 2 EX goes:
It's on the list of Dolby Digital Surround EX encoded movies supplied by Dolby Labs and mentioned both in their press releases and 'Dolby News'. When an EX movie is transferred to DVD, the EX encoding remains intact (much as Dolby Surround remains when transferring movies to VHS).

[This message has been edited by exm (edited August 03, 2000).]

JimRochester

So Dave, what you're saying is that Disney is now doing EX on their titles???

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