kjdotts

On Black Friday I managed to score a bunch of $2 DVDs from Wal-Mart. Unfortunately, two of them "Borat" and "Hellboy II: The Golden Army" had defects and would not play. On both titles there were concentric bubble/scratch looking defects that rendered them useless. I have a buffing machine and have become expert at repairing scratches and defects up to a certain degree but these were deep. On "Hellboy II: The Golden Army", the bubble/scratch looking defects were on discs one and two. The digital copy disc was fine but useless since the authorization code expired on 2009-10-31. Anyways...

Anyone that owns "Borat" knows what the DVD looks like so you already know where this is going. They designed it to look like an illegal burn but naturally it is not. I had already planned mentally for this heading in to exchange the DVDs. I walk up to the customer service desk and the below exchange takes place...

Wal-Mart Employee: How may I help you?

Me: I need to exchange these DVDs. They both have manufacturing defects and will not play correctly.

Wal-Mart Employee: You cannot return them since they've been opened. You see, they are copyrighted and we are not allowed to process returns for opened DVDs.

Me: Right, which is why I requested an exchange. I realize you cannot do returns on opened DVDs. (actually where I live they usually will if there are no replacements available -- more on this later)

Wal-Mart Employee: Ok ... (she proceeds to open each case to inspect the contents and discovers the "Borat" DVD) ... Sir, this "Borat" DVD is not the right one. It's been copied! ... (proceeds to remove "Borat" DVD by prying up on one end, bending it until it eventually springs loose -- oblivious to the "Push Here" button on the Amaray case)

Me: HA -- yes they designed it like that to fit in with the "Borat" movie subject-matter.

Wal-Mart Employee: (blank look while she continues to inspect the DVD) ... No, look here it's been copied! (pointing to the sharpie writing type silkscreen printing on the DVD)

Me: Look, that is the correct DVD. It is a commercially pressed DVD -- IT IS NOT BURNT. Just look at the underside. Burnt DVDs have a visible dye pattern on the data side of the disc. If you don't believe me have someone from electronics come up. If need be, open one of your copies of "Borat" and verify.

Wal-Mart Employee: Oh, ok ... (dumbfounded like she's still convinced I'm trying to scam Wal-Mart with a $2 "Borat" DVD but she moves on)

I ended up getting a return since there were no more copies of either title available to exchange which really sucked but I already knew this would be the outcome. At one point a manager came up to authorize the return and she said "For $2 each, if it was me I would just keep these" but I told her it didn't matter how much they cost, if they don't play then they're useless to me.

The manager originally told me she would not allow a return and I would just have to keep checking in until they had the exact titles/editions in stock but I only had 90-days so check in often. I told her there was no way I would accept that. I stated she had three options...

1. Give me a date (within the 90-day window) when they would have replacements in stock.
2. Allow me $4 in credit to purchase another DVD.
3. Refund my $4.

She ended up choosing option-3. A lot of trouble for $4 but in a matter such as this principle comes in to play.

I wish manufactures would increase their quality control. It seems like every time I purchase DVDs I have to mess with exchanging at least one due to quality control issues. There were several other Black Friday DVDs I bought which looked pretty bad but they all played/scanned perfectly so I kept them.

Everyone should check their Black Friday DVD purchases to make sure they don't have any bad ones. There is nothing worse then trying to watch a DVD you purchased and finding out it's bad right in the middle of the movie.

Later!

Groucho

I had a good guess how this was going to go based on the subject header, but it was a funny read all the same. Good stuff.

ericn101

I have 1200 discs and counting,and probably bought and sold or rented 3000 more, and I have never gotten a defective disc, not once. Amazing to me that someone would get 3 in one day.

dsa_shea

Consider yourself lucky then.

DeanoBKN

I've been collecting and renting DVDs since 1998, and unless I purchased or rented a scratched disc, I have also never, ever run into a single problem with a brand new disc. I consider myself very lucky too, considering all the stories I see on this board and others.

On a side note, I managed a Coconuts/FYE for a couple of years back, and I always found it amusing how 9 out of 10 "defective" movies returned were always shitty and the person always asked to pick out another movie instead.

kjdotts

As of Black Friday I have 871 DVDs in my collection. I always immediately open all my DVDs to check them out. If I notice any physical defects then I scan the DVD and try to play it in various devices. I'm afraid many collectors have discs with defects but don't realize it.

For example, on "Borat", the defect was in a location that only affected the special features. The main movie played fine. Many collectors miss these types of defects. Sure I could have kept this DVD but knowing the defect was there would have annoyed me to death. You see, I'm like Monk and very OCD so all my discs have to be perfect.

Unfortunately, on "Hellboy II: The Golden Army", the defect was near the edge of the disc at the layer transition and affected several chapters in the middle of the movie.

Yes three defective discs out of 15 discs purchased on Black Friday is amazing but just my luck. I always check for floaters so that is never an issue for me except when ordering online.

Call me crazy but when I purchase a DVD I need for it to function perfectly throughout.

Later!

TimeandTide

Nice post, kjdotts. Enjoyed reading about your experience.

kjdotts

Glad you both enjoyed my post. Thanks to everyone for reading and commenting. I have been in spectator mode here for years and I finally decided to start participating.

Later!

stingermck

If only you were also exchanging Army of Darkness bootleg

jjcool

Ex- Sam Goody manager here. I also noted this phenomenon. If it was opened it was an exact exchange only according to policy. Being a smaller store, most of the time this meant we didnt have another copy. So they ended up getting store credit anyway. Of course, our district manager instructed us to check all the returned the dvds, and if they played, to repack them and put them back out for sale.

Defective dvds were one of the few items that we didnt destroy at store level. They were actually returned to the company, and presumably the vendor for credit. Dont know if this is still the way it works or not.

jjcool

As to the original post, I havent ever gotten a defective disc that wasnt a floater. I have had a couple(about 5) dvds that I bought online and came in and were losse and wouldnt play. I have had one dvd that I bought in store snap righ in half as I tried to take it out of the case to play it for teh first time. That's it out of ~800 dvds.

mndtrp

Amusing story, I'm glad it worked out for you.

Alan Smithee

I rented Borat (for free) from Redbox a while ago- I was sooo tempted to make a copy, switch the sticker and return that and keep the original, just to see if anyone would even notice.

Gizmo

I always enjoy the Borat thread that pops up here every year or so.

Abob Teff

Those two defective ones were probably suffering from DVD rot.

BobO'Link

Even though I knew where this was going I *had* to read. It's just funny how clueless CS staff can be at times! When the Manager said: "For $2 each, if it was me I would just keep these" I would have replied similarly and probably have added something along the lines of "and that's just what WM corporate would like for me to do so they don't have to deal with defective product". You're right... it's the principal. I don't care if it is a $.50 disk I'll do a return if it's defective.

I'm somewhat amazed the Manager gave you cash back instead of store credit as they had been opened. That usually only happens the week after Christmas during the return/exchange blitz.

As far as wanting you to "check in often" during a 90 day window to see if they had restocked a title... that's outrageous! I don't care if it's the hottest title on the market and they'll get more in "a day or two" if it's not in stock *when I do the return* I expect store credit *or* a full refund. I'd have never given or accepted option #1.

For you guys who've never received a defective disk... WOW! I have a farily large collection (800+ movies, 200+ TV seasons) and while defectives tend to be rare I *do* get them occasionally. While they've mainly been the DVD-18s that Uni has released, I've gotten a few others. I stopped purchasing "Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea" with S1 simply because I *never* got a set without a defective disk. Even replacements. For one half-season I went through 4(!) sets before I was finally able to swap out enough "good" disks for "bad" to get a "non-defective" set. One season of "Hogan's Heroes" had a disk that looked as if someone had taken a hole-punch and tried to make a hole in the disk! I got some very strange looks when I returned that one (at WM no less).

kjdotts

Yes I totally agree, the CS staff can be nuts sometimes. Many people will accept their crazy conditions -- that's why you have to stand up for yourself when doing exchanges/returns. I understand the whole copyright issue but at the same time the stores need to understand that when returning a defective DVD I have already been inconvenienced enough and I shouldn't have to jump through hoops just to get a working copy of something I paid hard earned money for. I gave the CS manager that same spiel and I believe that is why she decided to refund my money. I have never returned a DVD I just didn't want and I would never ask for a different title unless they lacked a replacement for the title I am returning.

The only reason I offered option #1 is because I really wanted the "Hellboy II: The Golden Army" 3-disc set for $2 so I was willing to do something I normally wouldn't. Under normal circumstances I would never accept that as a solution.

Speaking of defective discs and my luck. Just last night I purchased my first DVD since Black Friday and guess what? The one and only DVD I purchased was absolutely filthy! Looked like someone had taken a mixture of water/flour and sprayed the data side of the DVD and allowed it to dry except it wouldn't wipe off. None of my devices would even recognize it. Were talking about a brand new, sealed DVD from a major studio, not one of those junky $1 DVDs. Luckily, I was able to use my buffing machine and make it look absolutely perfect. I scanned it and there were no CRC errors (got a quality rating of 99.15%) so I am happy now.

Funny because when I opened the DVD I was thinking of this post and my luck. The second I saw the underside of the DVD I was like D*MN, D*MN, D*MN!!!

What's funnier is that last Christmas a relative gave me ~$10 worth of those junky $1 DVDs with titles no one has ever heard of (the relative heard I'm a DVD collector -- LOL) and they were ALL perfect! They looked like NASA had their manufacturing contracted out to use as mirrors on the Hubble Space Telescope. The same day on my way home I stopped somewhere and ended up purchasing the "Tremors Attack Pack" (Tremors / Tremors 2-Aftershocks / Tremors 3-Back To Perfection / Tremors 4-The Legend Begins) and they looked like CRAP! That's when I broke down and bought my buffing setup. Now I can repair most any DVD to mint condition unless the defect is deep or within the data layer.

Later!

Alan Smithee

Where can you get a buffing machine for an affordable price?

Back in '94 I bought a 31-inch GE TV from Circuit City for $599- a ridiculously low price at the time, but the damn picture rolled whenever there was anything with rapid flashes of light and dark. Took it back and eventually got a higher-priced model, but someone there said "Well, since you paid so little for it, you should just put up with it." One of the thousands of reasons I was happy to see them go out of business!

jjcool

If the CSR was comfortable keeping the defective dvds for $2 a piece, you could have offered to sell them to him for $2.

kjdotts

I researched all the different options for properly repairing DVDs and found the best results and lowest cost per repair could be had using an old school buffing machine with the proper wheels and buffing compound.

I ordered my wheels and buffing compound from Caswell Inc. and my buffing machine from Sears (see below).

I was going to post direct links but I'm not allowed to yet so just Google the below keywords (should be #1 result for both items):

Caswell Inc. CD & Plastics Buffing Kit

...and...

Sears Craftsman 6" Bench Top Buffer

The Caswell CD & Plastics Buffing Kit comes with a buffing machine but I didn't like the look of it so I went with a Craftsman unit and bought all of the kit components separately (see below). If you only plan to use this for DVD/CD repair then the 6" unit is perfect but if you would also like to work with larger items then an 8" setup might be better but keep in mind it will add another $75 or so to the investment.

-------------------Sears-------------------
$099.99 Craftsman 6" Bench Top Buffer
$000.00 Free In Store Pick-Up
----------------Caswell Inc.----------------
$009.98 2x Loose Cotton Wheel (LCW65)
$005.98 2x Canton Flannel Wheel (CFW64)
$006.50 1x White Buffing Compound (WBC5)
$005.32 1x Blue Buffing Compound (BLUBC5)
$008.25 USPS Priority Mail Shipping
-------------------------------------------
$136.02 Total Investment
==================================

This setup produces the best results out of everything I have seen and/or tried and the cost per repair is a few pennies at most (including electricity). During the 12 months I have owned this setup, I have done hundreds of repairs for myself and family/friends. My wheels look brand new and both buffing compounds have just a 1/4" or so of wear in the middle.

To anyone considering this just please keep in mind that you will be working with a bench top power tool so please use caution and follow all instructions/warnings. If you're not comfortable using power tools and working with your hands then you should consider another repair solution. Take it slow and practice on a few coasters or already trashed DVDs to get the hang of the repair process. Once you've done a few repairs you will most likely be able to do a light repair in under a minute and a deep repair in a few minutes.

VenMill Industries sells an impressive looking Venmill VMI 3500 Buffer for prices ranging from $2,300 to $4,000 (thanks to Google search). However, if you open it up and look inside, guess what you'll see? A motor mounted with buffer wheels on one side very similar to the above $136.02 setup.

I would post pictures but I am not allowed to yet. However, if you go to Bing and do an image search for "VMI 3500 Buffer" you should see results showing the inside of the unit.

For ~6% of the lowest price I could find for the Venmill VMI 3500 Buffer you could have a setup that produces better results. You'll have more control over the repair and you won't have to purchase the expensive proprietary consumables.

My local Family Video has a VMI 3500 Buffer and its results are just a fraction of what I can achieve with my setup. They've repaired rentals for me in the past and it seems like unless they run a DVD through dozens of repair cycles the results are lacking. Their machine may be out of calibration but it also seems to miss the inside and outside regions of the disc.

After I have a higher post count I might do a dedicated posting on this in a new thread to include links and images.

Yes, I should have. Who would want DVDs that don't work correctly. Crazy!

hindolio

ive read concurrence. one question though... when you are buying used dvds, do you totally feel empowered by your ability to take on nearly any challenge of picking up scratched disks and lol?

Trevor

That just seems like such overkill. I've played perhaps 15,000 different discs in my life, and have perhaps 2 be not playable on any machine. Spending $140 to probably fix 2 $5 CDs seems a bit much.

CDs and DVDs are incredibly durable in my experience, we play frisbee with them, and nobody I know ever has disc problems, but I guess we've all just been lucky.

kjdotts

I'm assuming you realize this setup repairs all polycarbonate discs (except Blu-ray) and not just CDs. I wanted to make that clear because of the way you worded the "Spending $140 to probably fix 2 $5 CDs seems a bit much" sentence.

I agree this setup is a lot of upfront money but considering one can easily spend $20-$30 on poor solutions like the Skip Dr., I feel $140 for a highly effective repair solution that cost just pennies per repair and can perform tens of thousands of repair cycles for the $140 is perfect for anyone with a medium to large size disc collection. (Sorry for the run-on sentence -- HA!)

I keep hearing from all these collectors that never have disc problems and I wonder why me . Now please keep in mind that the only time I have issues is from new additions to my collection. With my OCD, I take extreme care with my collection and have therefore never caused a disc to go bad. I only have to deal with bad discs coming in to my collection.

I also have to wonder if we're comparing apples to apples here in our definition of "bad/defective". I consider a disc defective if there are any CRC errors that cause any amount of data to be unreadable (error correction failure). I don't care if the defect is in the main title, some bonus that most people will never watch or a trailer -- if there is a defect ANYWHERE of ANY LENGTH then naturally the disc is DEFECTIVE.

Anytime I encounter a supposedly defective disc, I try it in several devices to ensure it is truly defective and not just a compatibility issue.

Later!

TimeandTide

I'd say about 2/3 of my son's DVDs are now almost unwatchable, either due to scratching or residue, so I can see some value in having a tool around that could fix them. But having said that, a $140 tool to fix cheap DVDs does sound a bit much.

I admire the OP's resourcefulness, however!

Trevor

I could see the need for a cleaning system/product if one had a large collection and messy kids.
Yep, I was speaking of 'all discs' with my 15,000+ checked and only ~2 were bad. I'm continually amazed at how many of you run into bad discs. I should buy lottery tickets I guess.