Zombie talk
08-13-09, 02:45 AM
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Zombie talk
I've been perusing old threads and I've read countless comments on how zombies shouldn't be running. So I guess I'll add my two cents...
I have no problems with zombies running as long as they've just been recently killed or turned. They would still have synovial fluid in their joints and their muscles would not have gone into rigor mortis yet. As for the dead rising from their graves or have died long ago, then yes they would only be walking, staggering, etc...their muscles would long have been decrepid, decomposed and the like.
I guess what i'm trying to say is, why can't we have both fast and slow zombies?
And on a side note...if a person dies and then turns into a zombie, doesn't that person cease to be dead?
I have no problems with zombies running as long as they've just been recently killed or turned. They would still have synovial fluid in their joints and their muscles would not have gone into rigor mortis yet. As for the dead rising from their graves or have died long ago, then yes they would only be walking, staggering, etc...their muscles would long have been decrepid, decomposed and the like.
I guess what i'm trying to say is, why can't we have both fast and slow zombies?
And on a side note...if a person dies and then turns into a zombie, doesn't that person cease to be dead?
08-13-09, 03:21 AM
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Re: Zombie talk
Simon Pegg wrote a fantastic article about zombies, that echoes my sentiments.
Full Article
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008...-pegg-dead-set
The speedy zombie seems implausible to me, even within the fantastic realm it inhabits. A biological agent, I'll buy. Some sort of super-virus? Sure, why not. But death? Death is a disability, not a superpower. It's hard to run with a cold, let alone the most debilitating malady of them all.
More significantly, the fast zombie is bereft of poetic subtlety. As monsters from the id, zombies win out over vampires and werewolves when it comes to the title of Most Potent Metaphorical Monster. Where their pointy-toothed cousins are all about sex and bestial savagery, the zombie trumps all by personifying our deepest fear: death. Zombies are our destiny writ large. Slow and steady in their approach, weak, clumsy, often absurd, the zombie relentlessly closes in, unstoppable, intractable.
However (and herein lies the sublime artfulness of the slow zombie), their ineptitude actually makes them avoidable, at least for a while. If you're careful, if you keep your wits about you, you can stave them off, even outstrip them - much as we strive to outstrip death. Drink less, cut out red meat, exercise, practice safe sex; these are our shotguns, our cricket bats, our farmhouses, our shopping malls. However, none of these things fully insulates us from the creeping dread that something so witless, so elemental may yet catch us unawares - the drunk driver, the cancer sleeping in the double helix, the legless ghoul dragging itself through the darkness towards our ankles.
Another thing: speed simplifies the zombie, clarifying the threat and reducing any response to an emotional reflex. It's the difference between someone shouting "Boo!" and hearing the sound of the floorboards creaking in an upstairs room: a quick thrill at the expense of a more profound sense of dread. The absence of rage or aggression in slow zombies makes them oddly sympathetic, a detail that enabled Romero to project depth on to their blankness, to create tragic anti-heroes; his were figures to be pitied, empathised with, even rooted for. The moment they appear angry or petulant, the second they emit furious velociraptor screeches (as opposed to the correct mournful moans of longing), they cease to possess any ambiguity. They are simply mean
More significantly, the fast zombie is bereft of poetic subtlety. As monsters from the id, zombies win out over vampires and werewolves when it comes to the title of Most Potent Metaphorical Monster. Where their pointy-toothed cousins are all about sex and bestial savagery, the zombie trumps all by personifying our deepest fear: death. Zombies are our destiny writ large. Slow and steady in their approach, weak, clumsy, often absurd, the zombie relentlessly closes in, unstoppable, intractable.
However (and herein lies the sublime artfulness of the slow zombie), their ineptitude actually makes them avoidable, at least for a while. If you're careful, if you keep your wits about you, you can stave them off, even outstrip them - much as we strive to outstrip death. Drink less, cut out red meat, exercise, practice safe sex; these are our shotguns, our cricket bats, our farmhouses, our shopping malls. However, none of these things fully insulates us from the creeping dread that something so witless, so elemental may yet catch us unawares - the drunk driver, the cancer sleeping in the double helix, the legless ghoul dragging itself through the darkness towards our ankles.
Another thing: speed simplifies the zombie, clarifying the threat and reducing any response to an emotional reflex. It's the difference between someone shouting "Boo!" and hearing the sound of the floorboards creaking in an upstairs room: a quick thrill at the expense of a more profound sense of dread. The absence of rage or aggression in slow zombies makes them oddly sympathetic, a detail that enabled Romero to project depth on to their blankness, to create tragic anti-heroes; his were figures to be pitied, empathised with, even rooted for. The moment they appear angry or petulant, the second they emit furious velociraptor screeches (as opposed to the correct mournful moans of longing), they cease to possess any ambiguity. They are simply mean
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008...-pegg-dead-set
08-13-09, 03:48 AM
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Re: Zombie talk
fair enough...that's a good enough philosophical answer. And I respect that opinion on why you prefer the slow zombies.
But my beef really remains with the people that say zombies should be slow just because they're dead. I find it kind of insulting to see a normal moving guy getting killed, turned into a zombie, and all of a sudden start shuffling towards its victim. If the legs havn't been damaged then that bastard should be able to run.
IMO, I feel that the a zombie should only be limited by its physical abilities rather than philosophical ideology. But I at least can buy your arguement
But my beef really remains with the people that say zombies should be slow just because they're dead. I find it kind of insulting to see a normal moving guy getting killed, turned into a zombie, and all of a sudden start shuffling towards its victim. If the legs havn't been damaged then that bastard should be able to run.
IMO, I feel that the a zombie should only be limited by its physical abilities rather than philosophical ideology. But I at least can buy your arguement
08-13-09, 01:22 PM
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Re: Zombie talk
fair enough...that's a good enough philosophical answer. And I respect that opinion on why you prefer the slow zombies.
But my beef really remains with the people that say zombies should be slow just because they're dead. I find it kind of insulting to see a normal moving guy getting killed, turned into a zombie, and all of a sudden start shuffling towards its victim. If the legs havn't been damaged then that bastard should be able to run.
IMO, I feel that the a zombie should only be limited by its physical abilities rather than philosophical ideology. But I at least can buy your arguement
But my beef really remains with the people that say zombies should be slow just because they're dead. I find it kind of insulting to see a normal moving guy getting killed, turned into a zombie, and all of a sudden start shuffling towards its victim. If the legs havn't been damaged then that bastard should be able to run.
IMO, I feel that the a zombie should only be limited by its physical abilities rather than philosophical ideology. But I at least can buy your arguement
08-13-09, 01:36 PM
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Re: Zombie talk
So, devilshalo, would you say that this "hunger" is animal like? or something else? I'm just thinking that if there is some sort of animalistic instinct (not rational) then maybe they should be able to run or at least try to run until reality kicks in, i.e. rotten legs, etc.
08-13-09, 01:46 PM
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Re: Zombie talk
Simon Pegg wrote a fantastic article about zombies, that echoes my sentiments.
Full Article
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008...-pegg-dead-set
Full Article
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008...-pegg-dead-set
that said, i also loved the quickness in Dawn remake or better yet i really didn't think about or mind the new movements. i just thought Snyder needed to do something different for the update and it worked for me. but, then it became more of an action-adventure then flat out horror as Romero's films are. so i took it for the action/updated style and enjoyed it.
but the original Romeros are classics, as well as, Shaun of the Dead and those will remain on my all-time list.
08-13-09, 01:51 PM
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Re: Zombie talk
then move along. nothing to see here.
So, devilshalo, would you say that this "hunger" is animal like? or something else? I'm just thinking that if there is some sort of animalistic instinct (not rational) then maybe they should be able to run or at least try to run until reality kicks in, i.e. rotten legs, etc.
So, devilshalo, would you say that this "hunger" is animal like? or something else? I'm just thinking that if there is some sort of animalistic instinct (not rational) then maybe they should be able to run or at least try to run until reality kicks in, i.e. rotten legs, etc.
As for Snyder's DotD... hey, they run.. cool. But then they run and come to a stop? Not cool. That involves thinking and reacting.
08-13-09, 02:03 PM
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Re: Zombie talk
I'll give them running IF they fall over themselves, they should not have the ability to balance their forward momentum at that pace. It's already a learned trait.
As for Snyder's DotD... hey, they run.. cool. But then they run and come to a stop? Not cool. That involves thinking and reacting.
As for Snyder's DotD... hey, they run.. cool. But then they run and come to a stop? Not cool. That involves thinking and reacting.
08-13-09, 02:06 PM
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Re: Zombie talk
I've been perusing old threads and I've read countless comments on how zombies shouldn't be running. So I guess I'll add my two cents...
I have no problems with zombies running as long as they've just been recently killed or turned. They would still have synovial fluid in their joints and their muscles would not have gone into rigor mortis yet. As for the dead rising from their graves or have died long ago, then yes they would only be walking, staggering, etc...their muscles would long have been decrepid, decomposed and the like.
I guess what i'm trying to say is, why can't we have both fast and slow zombies?
And on a side note...if a person dies and then turns into a zombie, doesn't that person cease to be dead?
I have no problems with zombies running as long as they've just been recently killed or turned. They would still have synovial fluid in their joints and their muscles would not have gone into rigor mortis yet. As for the dead rising from their graves or have died long ago, then yes they would only be walking, staggering, etc...their muscles would long have been decrepid, decomposed and the like.
I guess what i'm trying to say is, why can't we have both fast and slow zombies?
And on a side note...if a person dies and then turns into a zombie, doesn't that person cease to be dead?
08-13-09, 02:47 PM
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08-13-09, 02:53 PM
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Re: Zombie talk
Then what are your thoughts on the zombie that learns to use a gun and salute in Romero's Day of the Dead? And the lead zombie in Romero's Land of the Dead being able to lead an army of zombies? If zombie's are able to use guns and lead an army then they should be able to run and stop
08-13-09, 05:17 PM
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Re: Zombie talk
I love this topic, it's rediculous. Who is to dictate how a dead body would act if returned to "life" driven by it's basic need to eat? Well, I can see arguments for both cases.
For the slow advocate you can argue that rigor mortis and lower brain function would demand they are slow.
For the runner crowd you could argue that once a body was dead it would not be limited by any pain factors thus making then able to move as fast as that body could handle until breaking down.
Of course the big variable is what is doing the reanimating? Until that's figured out then all arguments are with incomplete evidence.
That said, I like both. But unless we are talking huge crowds, I cannot stand to watch a person being snuck up on by a shambling, groaning slow zombie. It bothers me. Wheareas runners have brought survival to a whole new area.
In the end tho, it goes without saying: I can't wait for Zombieland!
For the slow advocate you can argue that rigor mortis and lower brain function would demand they are slow.
For the runner crowd you could argue that once a body was dead it would not be limited by any pain factors thus making then able to move as fast as that body could handle until breaking down.
Of course the big variable is what is doing the reanimating? Until that's figured out then all arguments are with incomplete evidence.
That said, I like both. But unless we are talking huge crowds, I cannot stand to watch a person being snuck up on by a shambling, groaning slow zombie. It bothers me. Wheareas runners have brought survival to a whole new area.
In the end tho, it goes without saying: I can't wait for Zombieland!
08-13-09, 08:32 PM
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Re: Zombie talk
Dead Set is excellent and better than most zombie movies out there, especially considering it's a TV show, but the zombies do run in it so if you're a traditionalist you may not like it. I definately recommend it as i've watched it a few times and it gets better each time as I pick up on things I missed in previous viewings.
Bob
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08-14-09, 06:41 AM
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Re: Zombie talk
I love this topic, it's rediculous. Who is to dictate how a dead body would act if returned to "life" driven by it's basic need to eat? Well, I can see arguments for both cases.
I'm so tired of Vampire stories only happening at night! How dare they limit the use of Vampires to only 12 hours of the day! Twilight has it right!
See, not as compelling. Even if this is an imaginary character/situation, you still have to go by the rules and structure given to these creatures.
These are zombies and the moment you do give them the ability to think quickly, they are no longer relentless zombies. They're free thinkers.
As for shamblers, by the very thought that once they're turned, they have limited brain capacity or are in this sort of lust for the food that doesn't provide them with much thought process to use on the movement of their legs, add in that rigor is going to kick in. Don't have blood cycling in your system, then your leg is going to turn blue or not have the proper lube to move like it should.
08-14-09, 09:24 AM
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Re: Zombie talk
Simon Pegg wrote a fantastic article about zombies, that echoes my sentiments.
Full Article
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008...-pegg-dead-set
Full Article
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008...-pegg-dead-set