Need to replace my DVD player. Suggestions?
06-02-00, 10:41 PM
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My old Panasonic player has seen much use, and is finallly starting to exhibit symptoms of the laser assembly wearing out, so it's time to replace it. I don't need a changer (although I won't rule one out, if the price is right), but I do have a few requirements. The player I buy must:
1) Play DTS DVDs (really a no-brainer, since DTS support is now so common in DVD players)
2) Have a bitrate meter
3) Pass a Pluge signal for VE calibration
4) Cost less than $350
I don't care about built-in DD/DTS decoders, but I do prefer optical digital output.
I've been looking at several of the models out there, and I like the features and prices of the Toshiba SD2200, the Sony DVPS330, and the Pioneer DV 525 (does this model pass the blacker-than-black Pluge signal?).
Any comments from people with experience with these players is welcome.
Thanks,
Robo
1) Play DTS DVDs (really a no-brainer, since DTS support is now so common in DVD players)
2) Have a bitrate meter
3) Pass a Pluge signal for VE calibration
4) Cost less than $350
I don't care about built-in DD/DTS decoders, but I do prefer optical digital output.
I've been looking at several of the models out there, and I like the features and prices of the Toshiba SD2200, the Sony DVPS330, and the Pioneer DV 525 (does this model pass the blacker-than-black Pluge signal?).
Any comments from people with experience with these players is welcome.
Thanks,
Robo
06-02-00, 11:58 PM
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Tosh2200/3109- great all around. extra disk play a nice feature. little jagged w/anamorphic conversion to 4:3, but very good picture quality. Good scaning. Zoom. Sucky remote - need a universal. Component video. Quite reliable. One or two skips over the last 4 months.
Sony330 - QUITE a few reports of lip synching (my mom's player, e.g.). the new 360/560 supposed to have taken care of this. IMO, too early to know if Sony fixed this problem for long term - get an extended warranty w/a Sony. Overall, better picture quality than 2200. Best for anamorphic conversion to 4:3. Better scans, nice remote. No zoom. No component video out.
Pioneer525- best picture quality out of the three. passes pluge. Plays cd-r. Lousy scans(choppy). Good anamorphic conversion to 4:3 (a few more motion artifacts than Sony). also sucky remote (not as bad as tosh).Component video. No zoom. Also quite reliable - 8 months w/o skip, lockup, lipsynch, etc ...
I own a Tosh2109 and Pioneer 525. My mom has a Tosh3109 and a Sony 330. I had a Panny 120U for two weeks before I sold it. (I heard it's starting to skip now! Dodged a bullet on that one.)
Sony330 - QUITE a few reports of lip synching (my mom's player, e.g.). the new 360/560 supposed to have taken care of this. IMO, too early to know if Sony fixed this problem for long term - get an extended warranty w/a Sony. Overall, better picture quality than 2200. Best for anamorphic conversion to 4:3. Better scans, nice remote. No zoom. No component video out.
Pioneer525- best picture quality out of the three. passes pluge. Plays cd-r. Lousy scans(choppy). Good anamorphic conversion to 4:3 (a few more motion artifacts than Sony). also sucky remote (not as bad as tosh).Component video. No zoom. Also quite reliable - 8 months w/o skip, lockup, lipsynch, etc ...
I own a Tosh2109 and Pioneer 525. My mom has a Tosh3109 and a Sony 330. I had a Panny 120U for two weeks before I sold it. (I heard it's starting to skip now! Dodged a bullet on that one.)
06-03-00, 06:18 AM
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Thanks for the valuable info, BEC. I picked up a Pioneer DV525 tonight ($229 at Costco) since i knew I could return it tomorrow if I really don't like it. You're right about the remote. It sucks, both in terms of the layout and the way it is designed to behave. I also hate the "scanning" feature. ONE speed?? And it doesn't continue to scan after you release the button??? Pathetic!
In terms of 4:3 downconverted picture quality, I would say it is very good, but not great (as compared to my dying Panasonic A105, which was practically perfect, and beat every other player I have ever tried).
I'm trying to decide if the lousy remote, lousy (make that non-existent) scanning, and less-than-stellar downconversion are enough of a pain to make me return the player tomorrow.
Robo
In terms of 4:3 downconverted picture quality, I would say it is very good, but not great (as compared to my dying Panasonic A105, which was practically perfect, and beat every other player I have ever tried).
I'm trying to decide if the lousy remote, lousy (make that non-existent) scanning, and less-than-stellar downconversion are enough of a pain to make me return the player tomorrow.
Robo
06-04-00, 09:23 PM
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If it's any help:
The scan does continue after you release. You have to hold the button for a few seconds. Again a good universal remote clears up some of the interface problems (that's goes for any DVD player). Cinema 7 or Radio shack 15-1994 do a great job for $25-$40.
If you try a Sony, you may want to consider an extended warranty. In the short term, the 330/360 might appeal to you more w/it's jog wheel and down-conversion . I thought the down-conversion was about as good as (or better) the Panasonic 120U. (Panny has the smoothest scans though.) I still think the 525 has the best picture quality, but, I'm primarily using it on a wide screen TV (36" Sony XBR).
Good luck.
The scan does continue after you release. You have to hold the button for a few seconds. Again a good universal remote clears up some of the interface problems (that's goes for any DVD player). Cinema 7 or Radio shack 15-1994 do a great job for $25-$40.
If you try a Sony, you may want to consider an extended warranty. In the short term, the 330/360 might appeal to you more w/it's jog wheel and down-conversion . I thought the down-conversion was about as good as (or better) the Panasonic 120U. (Panny has the smoothest scans though.) I still think the 525 has the best picture quality, but, I'm primarily using it on a wide screen TV (36" Sony XBR).
Good luck.
06-05-00, 01:31 AM
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The 360 does not have the lip sync problem that I can find and I have tried about 50 DVDs. It now has component outs and good scanning ability. It also has a nice bit rate meter and a meter that shows were you are on the disc and what layer your on. The 360 is missing a head phone jack and built in DD, but the 560 has both. Might be worth checking it out. I really like it and it has a beautiful picture.
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06-10-00, 08:31 AM
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Time for a followup report.
I ended up taking the Pioneer back to Costco. I found that the combination of the poor remote design, the lack of scanning features (I tried holding the button down for as long as five seconds, but it never "held" for me), and the profoundly noisy transport (I could hear it during playback, from across the room, over the normal audio level of a movie while it was playing) all added up to make the player less than adequate for my needs. I still think that the downconversion to 4:3 was very good, though.
Next, I picked up one of the new Panasonic RV30 models. This unit is apparently replacing the A120, and ushering in a new model numbering scheme. This player is excellent in every respect but one, which I'll address in a minute. The menu navigation speed (the time from when you press a button until the selected action actually takes place) is dramatically faster than the older Panasonics, as well as the Pioneer 525. Most menu functions are virtually instantaneous. Layer switches are also noticeably faster (they are in the sub-1/2-second range now). None of the old A110 problems exist in the new player's firmware, and every disc I've tried has worked perfectly, including The Matrix, the new Man with the Golden Gun disc, all of the discs that suffered from the "levelor" effect, and all of the discs that suffered from layer-change chapter-skips. The scanning has actually been improved over the previous Panasonic models, with support for up to 100x scanning. The player also passes a pluge signal, and offers additional black level enhancements, making it possible to use discs such as Video Essentials and Avia to their fullest potential. It also comes with component video outputs (but no coaxial digital audio out, just optical, which is fine for me). In short, this player has everything I could want, with the exception of a bit rate meter, and I was prepared to be in Panasonic heaven.
HOWEVER, for some unknown reason, with the release of these new models, Panasonic has abandoned the stunning 4:3 downconversion technology they were using on their previous models, and have gone back to the Toshiba-style of discarding every fourth scan line. After having spent 2 1/2 years spoiled by the "old" technology, this "new" stuff makes most anamorphic titles nearly unwatchable.
Now I don't know what to do. I know that I will eventually have a 16:9 set, but do I want to suffer with this pathetic downconversion until I get one, or should I trade the RV30 back in and get a Sony DVP-S360 (same price at Best Buy) for its superior downconversion, not knowing how it will compare to the Panasonic in all of the other categories?
Robo
I ended up taking the Pioneer back to Costco. I found that the combination of the poor remote design, the lack of scanning features (I tried holding the button down for as long as five seconds, but it never "held" for me), and the profoundly noisy transport (I could hear it during playback, from across the room, over the normal audio level of a movie while it was playing) all added up to make the player less than adequate for my needs. I still think that the downconversion to 4:3 was very good, though.
Next, I picked up one of the new Panasonic RV30 models. This unit is apparently replacing the A120, and ushering in a new model numbering scheme. This player is excellent in every respect but one, which I'll address in a minute. The menu navigation speed (the time from when you press a button until the selected action actually takes place) is dramatically faster than the older Panasonics, as well as the Pioneer 525. Most menu functions are virtually instantaneous. Layer switches are also noticeably faster (they are in the sub-1/2-second range now). None of the old A110 problems exist in the new player's firmware, and every disc I've tried has worked perfectly, including The Matrix, the new Man with the Golden Gun disc, all of the discs that suffered from the "levelor" effect, and all of the discs that suffered from layer-change chapter-skips. The scanning has actually been improved over the previous Panasonic models, with support for up to 100x scanning. The player also passes a pluge signal, and offers additional black level enhancements, making it possible to use discs such as Video Essentials and Avia to their fullest potential. It also comes with component video outputs (but no coaxial digital audio out, just optical, which is fine for me). In short, this player has everything I could want, with the exception of a bit rate meter, and I was prepared to be in Panasonic heaven.
HOWEVER, for some unknown reason, with the release of these new models, Panasonic has abandoned the stunning 4:3 downconversion technology they were using on their previous models, and have gone back to the Toshiba-style of discarding every fourth scan line. After having spent 2 1/2 years spoiled by the "old" technology, this "new" stuff makes most anamorphic titles nearly unwatchable.
Now I don't know what to do. I know that I will eventually have a 16:9 set, but do I want to suffer with this pathetic downconversion until I get one, or should I trade the RV30 back in and get a Sony DVP-S360 (same price at Best Buy) for its superior downconversion, not knowing how it will compare to the Panasonic in all of the other categories?
Robo
06-11-00, 06:30 AM
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I can't speak for the DVP-S360 model, but I have the DVP-S300 that I bought about a year and a half ago and am using with a Sony 27" direct view TV. I have never had any problems either hardware wise or software compatibility wise. It has worked flawlessly since I bought it. I beleive that Sony has fixed the lip sync problems that occured with the previous models - S350, S550 etc. The S300 also plays back anamorphic DVDs perfectly. 
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06-11-00, 01:33 PM
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You might want to look at the Toshiba 2200.I was thinking of buying the Pioneer 525 but I have read a lot of reviews stating that it was REAL noisy.I do know for a fact that the 2200 is a smooth running DVD player with a very good picture.I used to have the Sony DVP-S3000 which was an outstanding player,but I did not care for the soft image it had for enhanced widescreen movies.
06-12-00, 08:58 PM
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The Toshiba's are overall good machines (frequently, I recommend these players), but it sounds like anamorphic down conversion is important to you. I WOULD NOT recommend a Toshiba to you, if this is the case. The 2200 has little better color rendition than the 3109, but the same anamorphic tech: tends to sharper picture w/motion jaggies.
Judging from your expressed needs (and not out of a knee reflex "my player is best"), sounds like the new Sony's 360/560 will be the best match for you. The ONLY issue is the possibility (albeit low) of lipsynching.
It's very early, but so far, I haven't seen any complaints about these player's. Anyway, an extended warranty for any DVD player is a good idea, as your Panasonic player has demonstrated.
(The new Pioneer 333 is supposed to have fixed the scanning (it does scan, instead of scene flip), some of the transport noise of the 525, while retaining the 525's video properties. I played around w/a store room demo this weekend. Same type of remote, though.)
If remotes bother you, get a good universal remote. W/TV,VCR,DVD and receiver, it's an investment well worth the money. You get to concentrate on the "performance issues".
Good luck
Judging from your expressed needs (and not out of a knee reflex "my player is best"), sounds like the new Sony's 360/560 will be the best match for you. The ONLY issue is the possibility (albeit low) of lipsynching.
It's very early, but so far, I haven't seen any complaints about these player's. Anyway, an extended warranty for any DVD player is a good idea, as your Panasonic player has demonstrated.
(The new Pioneer 333 is supposed to have fixed the scanning (it does scan, instead of scene flip), some of the transport noise of the 525, while retaining the 525's video properties. I played around w/a store room demo this weekend. Same type of remote, though.)
If remotes bother you, get a good universal remote. W/TV,VCR,DVD and receiver, it's an investment well worth the money. You get to concentrate on the "performance issues".
Good luck
06-12-00, 09:59 PM
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Robodad,
I would go with the sony 360. Hearing nothing but great things about that unit. Sony has exceptional video output, so unless you need a built in decoder it will be a great choice. I have the 330 and absolutely love it.
Also, BEC seems to know his stuff. For what you say you want, I really think the sony is the way to go.
FYI, do a search in here on the sony. SOme others have recenlty picked the new 360 up and are extremely happy. I do believe it also still comes with the no commitment and pay $5 shipping for 2 DVDs to columbia house (added bonus) BUT make sure the deal is still active.
I would go with the sony 360. Hearing nothing but great things about that unit. Sony has exceptional video output, so unless you need a built in decoder it will be a great choice. I have the 330 and absolutely love it.
Also, BEC seems to know his stuff. For what you say you want, I really think the sony is the way to go.
FYI, do a search in here on the sony. SOme others have recenlty picked the new 360 up and are extremely happy. I do believe it also still comes with the no commitment and pay $5 shipping for 2 DVDs to columbia house (added bonus) BUT make sure the deal is still active.
06-13-00, 07:00 AM
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Thanks everyone for your comments and suggestions. I tend to think like BEC, and would probably not be very happy in the long run with the Toshiba-style downconversion, even though the Toshiba players are, in every other respect, very solid players. Spending the last week watching anamorphic movies on my new Panasonic player has been... painful.
I've decided to return the player tomorrow (or is that today?) and swap it for a Sony 360. As I mentioned before, I have no need of an internal decoder (the decoder in my Sony 50ES does a fine job in that regard), so the 360 looks to be the best deal for me.
As far as the remote issues go, just for the record, I do own a pretty good universal remote (the Radio Shack 15-1994), and will be programming it with the codes for my new player.
Well, I'll report back when I get the new player home, but I am fairly confident I'll be satisfied. Thanks again to all.
Robo
[This message has been edited by RoboDad (edited June 13, 2000).]
I've decided to return the player tomorrow (or is that today?
) and swap it for a Sony 360. As I mentioned before, I have no need of an internal decoder (the decoder in my Sony 50ES does a fine job in that regard), so the 360 looks to be the best deal for me.As far as the remote issues go, just for the record, I do own a pretty good universal remote (the Radio Shack 15-1994), and will be programming it with the codes for my new player.
Well, I'll report back when I get the new player home, but I am fairly confident I'll be satisfied. Thanks again to all.
Robo
[This message has been edited by RoboDad (edited June 13, 2000).]
06-14-00, 07:28 AM
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Well, I have the new player home, and I have to say I am pretty impressed.
The image is a little softer than I expected (some of the extremely fine print in movie credits is mostly illegible), but the picture quality is excellent overall. The remote functions are also a bit different than what I am used to, but nothing earth-shattering there either.
I really like the OSD navigation, and the wealth of available information that can be found there (bit rates, active layer, title time remaining, chapter time remaining, number of active audio channels, and so on). This player has everything I had hoped to find, and a whole lot more.
I also want to give some kudos to Best Buy. I had purchased the Panasonic player there a week and a half ago, but all I had to say when I went to the exchange counter was "I don't like this model, and I want to exchange it for the Sony." Of course, I admit that I kept the Panasonic player and all of its "stuff" in pristine condition, making it easy for them to slap some new tape on the box and resell it, but still, they were extremely courteous, and had me out the door with the new player in under 10 minutes.
Now, when is that Jaws 25th anniversary DTS DVD gonna get here?
Robo
The image is a little softer than I expected (some of the extremely fine print in movie credits is mostly illegible), but the picture quality is excellent overall. The remote functions are also a bit different than what I am used to, but nothing earth-shattering there either.
I really like the OSD navigation, and the wealth of available information that can be found there (bit rates, active layer, title time remaining, chapter time remaining, number of active audio channels, and so on). This player has everything I had hoped to find, and a whole lot more.
I also want to give some kudos to Best Buy. I had purchased the Panasonic player there a week and a half ago, but all I had to say when I went to the exchange counter was "I don't like this model, and I want to exchange it for the Sony." Of course, I admit that I kept the Panasonic player and all of its "stuff" in pristine condition, making it easy for them to slap some new tape on the box and resell it, but still, they were extremely courteous, and had me out the door with the new player in under 10 minutes.
Now, when is that Jaws 25th anniversary DTS DVD gonna get here?
Robo
06-14-00, 09:50 PM
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Good choice.
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MY SHORT BUT SLOWLY EXPANDING DVD LIST
"The earth does not belong to people; people belong to the earth. Everything that happens to the earth happens also to the sons and daughters of the earth." -Chief Seattle.
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MY SHORT BUT SLOWLY EXPANDING DVD LIST
"The earth does not belong to people; people belong to the earth. Everything that happens to the earth happens also to the sons and daughters of the earth." -Chief Seattle.
06-14-00, 11:08 PM
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Add me to the party.. Welcome new Sony owner. Think you are going to be very very happy with your selection....
Robodad, did you find out if Columbia House is still running the 2 dvd deal for Sony buyers???
Robodad, did you find out if Columbia House is still running the 2 dvd deal for Sony buyers???
06-15-00, 06:51 AM
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Yes, the special is still running! 2 DVDs for $4.95 S/H.
Oh, and BTW, I found something interesting when I programmed the DVD player into my universal remote tonight. Apparently there are codes in the Radio Shack remote for a whole bunch of commands that don't appear on the Sony remote, but work perfectly with the player. I was able to build my own "custom" remote settings that do exactly what I want them to do, even though the original remote couldn't do them.
Robo
Oh, and BTW, I found something interesting when I programmed the DVD player into my universal remote tonight. Apparently there are codes in the Radio Shack remote for a whole bunch of commands that don't appear on the Sony remote, but work perfectly with the player. I was able to build my own "custom" remote settings that do exactly what I want them to do, even though the original remote couldn't do them.
Robo
