Possible to make a good, new superhero movie without having an "origin" story?
#1
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Possible to make a good, new superhero movie without having an "origin" story?
For superhero characters in their first films, has there ever been a good superhero movie that doesn't involve the origin storyline? Sequels don't count!!! Such as X-Men 2, The Dark Knight, and Spiderman 2.
I would like to see a brand new superhero movie that's just like The Dark Knight, meaning, Batman is just there, part of the story, and not dealing with his origin storyline (as in Batman Begins). Does anyone think it's possible to do a good superhero movie like that?
It seems like all superhero movies always have to cover the "origin story". But due to this, it may compromise more interesting, original storylines that may or may not come about in their sequels.
Is it the movie producers that are obsessed with the "origin" storyline? Meaning, people will get turned off from a superhero movie that doesn't explain why or how the main superhero came to be?
There have been many good superhero movies recently but they all follow the same format in which the actual story of the movie doesn't really start til the 3rd act.
I would like to see a brand new superhero movie that's just like The Dark Knight, meaning, Batman is just there, part of the story, and not dealing with his origin storyline (as in Batman Begins). Does anyone think it's possible to do a good superhero movie like that?
It seems like all superhero movies always have to cover the "origin story". But due to this, it may compromise more interesting, original storylines that may or may not come about in their sequels.
Is it the movie producers that are obsessed with the "origin" storyline? Meaning, people will get turned off from a superhero movie that doesn't explain why or how the main superhero came to be?
There have been many good superhero movies recently but they all follow the same format in which the actual story of the movie doesn't really start til the 3rd act.
Last edited by toddly6666; 06-18-09 at 11:14 AM.
#2
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Re: Possible to make a good, new superhero movie without having an "origin" story?
It wouldn't make much sense to make a film without an origin story because a lot of the viewers don't know that origin story. Most people haven't read the comic book of the superhero they're going to see. Which is why some background is a necessity.
#4
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Re: Possible to make a good, new superhero movie without having an "origin" story?
I think it's the easiest story to tell, it's the one that audiences expect and, if done well, works just fine.
So I don't see why anyone would really want to rock the boat. Just tell a better origin story.
So I don't see why anyone would really want to rock the boat. Just tell a better origin story.
#5
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Re: Possible to make a good, new superhero movie without having an "origin" story?
I guess technically Hancock wasn't an origin story. It also wasn't very good.
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Re: Possible to make a good, new superhero movie without having an "origin" story?
The new Hulk didn't really have one. I don't think Daredevil did either.
Edit: Neither did X-men, really.
Edit: Neither did X-men, really.
Last edited by chess; 06-18-09 at 12:36 PM.
#7
Re: Possible to make a good, new superhero movie without having an "origin" story?
First thing I thought of. I thought they handled it pretty well. They just dropped us off in the middle of the Batman story after he started his campaign.
Everybody in the theater should already know who Batman is.
Everybody in the theater should already know who Batman is.
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Re: Possible to make a good, new superhero movie without having an "origin" story?
Ever dance with the devil in the pale moonlight? It had both Wayne's origin as well as Jack Napier/Joker. It just didn't have Batman's training sequences.
Daredevil most certainly had one with Matt on the rooftop as a youngster and finding out about his 'radar'. As well as it deals with how Kingpin played a role.
Originally Posted by chess
I don't think Daredevil did either.
#9
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Re: Possible to make a good, new superhero movie without having an "origin" story?
If I recall, didn't the opening credits of The Incredible Hulk give a shorthand account of how the Hulk came about? Plus they still had the first Hulk movie to use as a platform for his origin even if it wasn't identical.
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Re: Possible to make a good, new superhero movie without having an "origin" story?
Ever dance with the devil in the pale moonlight? It had both Wayne's origin as well as Jack Napier/Joker. It just didn't have Batman's training sequences.
Daredevil most certainly had one with Matt on the rooftop as a youngster and finding out about his 'radar'. As well as it deals with how Kingpin played a role.
Daredevil most certainly had one with Matt on the rooftop as a youngster and finding out about his 'radar'. As well as it deals with how Kingpin played a role.
Then again, we have Batman Begins to compare it with.
#11
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Re: Possible to make a good, new superhero movie without having an "origin" story?
I guess it just depends on how you look at it. To me, that just seemed more like a flashback from when he was a kid, not really showing much origin for Batman himself. And the whole "bats, they're great survivors" didn't really establish much either.
Then again, we have Batman Begins to compare it with.
Then again, we have Batman Begins to compare it with.
#12
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Re: Possible to make a good, new superhero movie without having an "origin" story?
The Incredibles?
Origin stories are the most interesting from a dramatic pov, they lend themselves well to a 3 act story structure.
Origin stories are the most interesting from a dramatic pov, they lend themselves well to a 3 act story structure.
#13
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Re: Possible to make a good, new superhero movie without having an "origin" story?
I would assume that when an Avengers or JLA movie comes out, they (being the writers and directors) may not need to explain origins of those that have not had their own movie.
#14
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Re: Possible to make a good, new superhero movie without having an "origin" story?
Blade wasn't an origin movie. He was dropped into the story as a fait accompli; yeah they showed his Mom in a beginning epilogue being rushed into the hospital after a vampire attack, but that wasn't so much an "origin" as it was a device to "shock" Blade later when he found out she was still alive and in the employ of the villain.
So yeah, I think it can be done, but only with superhero movies that aren't "high concept" or if they are recognizable enough in popular culture to go without... Green Lantern, for example, or The Flash, would necessitate origin stories, but something like Green Arrow or Captain America could do away an entire 1st Act dedicated to origins and instead do some kind of quick, 5-minute recap/flashback thingy.
Think about the 1st Star Wars movie... an opening crawl established an evil Galactic Empire, a heroic Rebellion, a princess with stolen Imperial property, and a menacing weapon of unimaginable power. Not even two minutes into the movie and BAM we got a milieu right then and there.
You could easily do the same with X-Men, or Avengers, or Justice League, or Teen Titans... establish the status quo and history with a quick opening sequence or text crawl, and head right into the heart of the story.
So yeah, I think it can be done, but only with superhero movies that aren't "high concept" or if they are recognizable enough in popular culture to go without... Green Lantern, for example, or The Flash, would necessitate origin stories, but something like Green Arrow or Captain America could do away an entire 1st Act dedicated to origins and instead do some kind of quick, 5-minute recap/flashback thingy.
Think about the 1st Star Wars movie... an opening crawl established an evil Galactic Empire, a heroic Rebellion, a princess with stolen Imperial property, and a menacing weapon of unimaginable power. Not even two minutes into the movie and BAM we got a milieu right then and there.
You could easily do the same with X-Men, or Avengers, or Justice League, or Teen Titans... establish the status quo and history with a quick opening sequence or text crawl, and head right into the heart of the story.
#15
Re: Possible to make a good, new superhero movie without having an "origin" story?
You could theoritically do movie about a superhero without the origin story but you would need a writer capable of writing a movie that will have the audience not care about it.
Hancock did a job of avoiding the true origin story but the overall result was just bad.
The Dark Knight tried to avoid telling the origin of the Joker with just short bits that didn't really reveal anything. However, even Christopher Nolan had to tell the media that the Joker in this film was inspired by "The Killing Joke" graphic novel and that he gave it to Heath Ledger to read.
Hancock did a job of avoiding the true origin story but the overall result was just bad.
The Dark Knight tried to avoid telling the origin of the Joker with just short bits that didn't really reveal anything. However, even Christopher Nolan had to tell the media that the Joker in this film was inspired by "The Killing Joke" graphic novel and that he gave it to Heath Ledger to read.
#16
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Re: Possible to make a good, new superhero movie without having an "origin" story?
I don't think the OP was saying that the character's origin shouldn't be referenced at all - just that the plot of the movie was not based around an origin story. The plot of Batman '89 is most certainly not based around Batman's origin.
#17
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Re: Possible to make a good, new superhero movie without having an "origin" story?
Does the OP mean "new superhero", as in a superhero that has never existed in comics or elsewhere until the movie? If so, then it is unlikely that you would do one without an origin story. Without that connection to the character, why would we care whether he lives or dies or achieves his goals? Besides, superhero movies are built to be franchises, so you'd want to squeeze every possible story out of it that you could.
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Re: Possible to make a good, new superhero movie without having an "origin" story?
Batman: You killed my parents.
The Joker: What? What? What are you talking about?
Batman: I made you, you made me first.
The Joker: Hey, bat-brain, I mean, I was a kid when I killed your parents. I mean, I say "I made you" you gotta say "you made me." I mean, how childish can you get?