The Death Star's construction and depiction in the movies
05-19-09, 07:11 PM
#1
The Death Star's construction and depiction in the movies
I've watched the old Star Wars movies again recently and something was just off to me about episode 4 and episode 6, and it has to deal with the depiction of the Death Star and the gravity of the structure.
To summarize: the Death Star is the size of a small moon. Websites seem to disagree on the size of the station, but I think it's safe to say it may not be as big as our moon, but it's not as small as the smallest moon in our solar system, by any stretch of the imagination. This is an impressive sized object... the size of a small moon.
Therefore, when we see the Star Destroyer crash into the Death Star in Episode Six, it make sense that it would fall into the structure much like how an airplane would crash nose first into the Earth.
And from the force.net...
But what I have a problem with is this:
My problem is that no...no, the decks are NOT oriented accordingly.
The decks appear to be horizontal:
Which is reinforced by this blue print, spoilerized for size
I simply cannot wrap my head around that. If the gravity is centered at the core like a natural planet, having decks like that would be akin to building everything going DOWN into the structure. The decks would be going down towards the core much like the Star Destroyer that crashed.
While we do see towers on the surface of the Death Star to suggest that they did get it in terms of having "cities" built on the surface, beneath that is something entirely. For example, when we see the Falcon dock, or the Emperor's shuttle, they are pretty much going in nose first towards the structure, so they would be going down into it.
The blue prints and the structure of the entire station would have to be more like city planning for a planet. And you couldn't have decks like the ones depicted in that drawing above...it would be impossible. All the crew men would be falling towards the center of the station.
I would envision something more along the lines of the city above and underground tunnels and such, with "mantle" like decks going into the Death Star that would contain the underground ocean that would be required to supply water to the entire station, and the power generators that wouldn't just power the Death Star but the super weapon that destroyed planets.
To summarize: the Death Star is the size of a small moon. Websites seem to disagree on the size of the station, but I think it's safe to say it may not be as big as our moon, but it's not as small as the smallest moon in our solar system, by any stretch of the imagination. This is an impressive sized object... the size of a small moon.
Therefore, when we see the Star Destroyer crash into the Death Star in Episode Six, it make sense that it would fall into the structure much like how an airplane would crash nose first into the Earth.
And from the force.net...
Over most of the outer surface the gravity is directed towards the core, just like that of a natural planet.
The decks are oriented accordingly and the surface is festooned with turbolaser towers and skyscrapers of various kinds, like part of a city. This arrangement caters for the psychological comfort of the crew, as humans have evolved as planet-bound beings.
The decks appear to be horizontal:
Which is reinforced by this blue print, spoilerized for size
Spoiler:
I simply cannot wrap my head around that. If the gravity is centered at the core like a natural planet, having decks like that would be akin to building everything going DOWN into the structure. The decks would be going down towards the core much like the Star Destroyer that crashed.
While we do see towers on the surface of the Death Star to suggest that they did get it in terms of having "cities" built on the surface, beneath that is something entirely. For example, when we see the Falcon dock, or the Emperor's shuttle, they are pretty much going in nose first towards the structure, so they would be going down into it.
The blue prints and the structure of the entire station would have to be more like city planning for a planet. And you couldn't have decks like the ones depicted in that drawing above...it would be impossible. All the crew men would be falling towards the center of the station.
I would envision something more along the lines of the city above and underground tunnels and such, with "mantle" like decks going into the Death Star that would contain the underground ocean that would be required to supply water to the entire station, and the power generators that wouldn't just power the Death Star but the super weapon that destroyed planets.
05-19-09, 07:16 PM
#4
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Re: The Death Star's construction and depiction in the movies
"humans have evolved as planet-bound beings"
Are they even humans? It's a galaxy far, far away, right?
Are they even humans? It's a galaxy far, far away, right?
05-19-09, 07:25 PM
#6
Re: The Death Star's construction and depiction in the movies
It's just fan boy discussion. Nothing more.
And looking at that design in the spoiler again, the living quarters are all just south of the equator. Assuming this place is the size of a small moon, it would take a LONG ass time to get to the command center. Think your commute to work sucks? It would be like your house is just south of the equator and you have to find transportation to get to Ohio every day for work.
And looking at that design in the spoiler again, the living quarters are all just south of the equator. Assuming this place is the size of a small moon, it would take a LONG ass time to get to the command center. Think your commute to work sucks? It would be like your house is just south of the equator and you have to find transportation to get to Ohio every day for work.
Last edited by calhoun07; 05-19-09 at 07:28 PM.
05-19-09, 07:31 PM
#8
DVD Talk Legend
Re: The Death Star's construction and depiction in the movies
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Death_Star#Description
according to that, the death star also had shopping centers and taverns.
according to that, the death star also had shopping centers and taverns.
05-19-09, 07:37 PM
#9
DVD Talk Legend
05-19-09, 07:42 PM
#10
Senior Member
Re: The Death Star's construction and depiction in the movies
I always wondered what happened to the exposed parts of Death Star II when the shield generator went down. I figured that the force field from that generator enabled the DS to stay in one piece so that the "contractors" could work in some safety.
But once the generator blew up I thought there would be debris and people flying out the back.
But once the generator blew up I thought there would be debris and people flying out the back.
05-19-09, 08:12 PM
#11
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: The Death Star's construction and depiction in the movies
I have more of a problem with Leias memories of her mom from Jedi getting condradicted in Revenge of the Sith
05-19-09, 09:18 PM
#14
Re: The Death Star's construction and depiction in the movies
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Death_Star#Description
according to that, the death star also had shopping centers and taverns.
according to that, the death star also had shopping centers and taverns.
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Sv5iEK-IEzw&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Sv5iEK-IEzw&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
I love that skit.
05-19-09, 09:38 PM
#16
DVD Talk Hero
Re: The Death Star's construction and depiction in the movies
In the late 70s and early 80s when this was made, nobody really scrutinized the physics involved in things like these.
And why does it need to be so fucking big? A space station of that size (providing that the whole thing is made up of crewed levels) could hold a crew of billions. Why do they need so many people for what amounts to a big gun?
The size could possibly be justified by having the whole thing be basically a nuclear reactor/energy plant of some kind because it's going to take a shitload of firepower to destroy an entire planet with one shot.
Also not 100% on the physics involved here, but I would think that a structure of that mass would collapse in on itself if it's made up of hollow horizontal crewed levels. Gravity is going to want to push everything down into the center.
And why does it need to be so fucking big? A space station of that size (providing that the whole thing is made up of crewed levels) could hold a crew of billions. Why do they need so many people for what amounts to a big gun?
The size could possibly be justified by having the whole thing be basically a nuclear reactor/energy plant of some kind because it's going to take a shitload of firepower to destroy an entire planet with one shot.
Also not 100% on the physics involved here, but I would think that a structure of that mass would collapse in on itself if it's made up of hollow horizontal crewed levels. Gravity is going to want to push everything down into the center.
05-19-09, 10:58 PM
#18
DVD Talk Legend
Re: The Death Star's construction and depiction in the movies
In the late 70s and early 80s when this was made, nobody really scrutinized the physics involved in things like these.
And why does it need to be so fucking big? A space station of that size (providing that the whole thing is made up of crewed levels) could hold a crew of billions. Why do they need so many people for what amounts to a big gun?
The size could possibly be justified by having the whole thing be basically a nuclear reactor/energy plant of some kind because it's going to take a shitload of firepower to destroy an entire planet with one shot.
Also not 100% on the physics involved here, but I would think that a structure of that mass would collapse in on itself if it's made up of hollow horizontal crewed levels. Gravity is going to want to push everything down into the center.
And why does it need to be so fucking big? A space station of that size (providing that the whole thing is made up of crewed levels) could hold a crew of billions. Why do they need so many people for what amounts to a big gun?
The size could possibly be justified by having the whole thing be basically a nuclear reactor/energy plant of some kind because it's going to take a shitload of firepower to destroy an entire planet with one shot.
Also not 100% on the physics involved here, but I would think that a structure of that mass would collapse in on itself if it's made up of hollow horizontal crewed levels. Gravity is going to want to push everything down into the center.
05-19-09, 11:54 PM
#20
DVD Talk Hero
Re: The Death Star's construction and depiction in the movies
I'd have expected to speak that "Divine Language" Leeloo speaks in The Fifth Element.
05-20-09, 12:01 AM
#21
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: The Death Star's construction and depiction in the movies
The bad guys were all from Space-England.
How high are people's taxes to pay for it. Not only 1, but they built another and that one got blown up too. People were probably pissed. So the Rebels didn't defeat the Empire. They blew up the Death Stars but normal people rioted and killed the remaining Imperials after they found out that their 99% taxes just go wasted...AGAIN!!!
How high are people's taxes to pay for it. Not only 1, but they built another and that one got blown up too. People were probably pissed. So the Rebels didn't defeat the Empire. They blew up the Death Stars but normal people rioted and killed the remaining Imperials after they found out that their 99% taxes just go wasted...AGAIN!!!
05-20-09, 01:05 AM
#22
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Re: The Death Star's construction and depiction in the movies
Don't worry, in a few years JJ will revamp the Star Wars saga and will reinvent the Death Star to todays special effect and scientific standards. Then we can all listen to people bitch about how the concept of the Death Star was bastardized and it was never meant to have science behind it in the first place. I can't wait for JJ to rape Lucas next.
Well... Lucas technically raped Lucas first. Then twice more with episode 2 and 3. Or was his first self-rape Return of the Jedi?
Well... Lucas technically raped Lucas first. Then twice more with episode 2 and 3. Or was his first self-rape Return of the Jedi?
05-20-09, 01:39 AM
#23
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Re: The Death Star's construction and depiction in the movies
It's just fan boy discussion. Nothing more.
And looking at that design in the spoiler again, the living quarters are all just south of the equator. Assuming this place is the size of a small moon, it would take a LONG ass time to get to the command center. Think your commute to work sucks? It would be like your house is just south of the equator and you have to find transportation to get to Ohio every day for work.
And looking at that design in the spoiler again, the living quarters are all just south of the equator. Assuming this place is the size of a small moon, it would take a LONG ass time to get to the command center. Think your commute to work sucks? It would be like your house is just south of the equator and you have to find transportation to get to Ohio every day for work.
05-20-09, 02:44 AM
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Re: The Death Star's construction and depiction in the movies
Anyone trying to figure out the logic behind the Death Star would suffer a headache, which is probably the reason why the Rebels blew the crap out of it twice.
Last edited by Apone; 05-20-09 at 07:56 AM.
05-20-09, 03:34 AM
#25
DVD Talk Legend
Re: The Death Star's construction and depiction in the movies
This might have some of your answers: http://www.theforce.net/swtc/ds/. Someone with too much time on his hands explains:
Symmetry and gravity.
One of the brilliant points of Starlog's STAR WARS Technical Journal was the examination of the internal symmetry of the Death Stars. The structural symmetry reflects the local orientation of artificial gravity within particular parts of the battle station.
Over most of the outer surface the gravity is directed towards the core, just like that of a natural planet. The decks are oriented accordingly and the surface is festooned with turbolaser towers and skyscrapers of various kinds, like part of a city. This arrangement caters for the psychological comfort of the crew, as humans have evolved as planet-bound beings.
An exception to this symmetry exists in the equatorial waistband trench. There the gravity is directed parallel to the rotational axis of the sphere so that one hemisphere is "up" and the other is "down". This arrangement seems designed to facilitate the takeoff and landing of starships. A pilot faces his ship directly into the docking bay, moving "horizontally" in the local gravitational frame. Presumably this is much easier than the alternative "vertical" ascent/descent experienced in a planet-like gravitational field.
This planar, axisymmetric layout seems to prevail throughout most of the volume of the Death Star. The exposed interior of the Death Star II showed a distinctive planar cylindrical grain. If the decks and mechanisms of this region had a planet-like gravity then we would expect layering in spherical shells instead. In fact the region of spherical symmetry seems only to involve the outermost skin of the station.
Crossing the interface between regions of different gravity could be discomforting for the crew. The interfaces are never shown on film, but they might be similar to the access tube leading to the laser cannon stations of the Millennium Falcon, where the gunner climbs through regions of mutually-perpendicular gravity by clinging to a ladder. Perhaps regions of different gravity in the Death Star are unconnected and self-contained, preventing the disorientation problems altogether. Perhaps there are corridors which curve around gently, with the direction of gravity varying smoothly from one region to the other. Perhaps the adjustment is made via a ride in a turbolift. Turbolifts are already likely to have their own inertial dampers and self-contained artificial gravity systems for the comfort and safety of occupants.
One of the brilliant points of Starlog's STAR WARS Technical Journal was the examination of the internal symmetry of the Death Stars. The structural symmetry reflects the local orientation of artificial gravity within particular parts of the battle station.
Over most of the outer surface the gravity is directed towards the core, just like that of a natural planet. The decks are oriented accordingly and the surface is festooned with turbolaser towers and skyscrapers of various kinds, like part of a city. This arrangement caters for the psychological comfort of the crew, as humans have evolved as planet-bound beings.
An exception to this symmetry exists in the equatorial waistband trench. There the gravity is directed parallel to the rotational axis of the sphere so that one hemisphere is "up" and the other is "down". This arrangement seems designed to facilitate the takeoff and landing of starships. A pilot faces his ship directly into the docking bay, moving "horizontally" in the local gravitational frame. Presumably this is much easier than the alternative "vertical" ascent/descent experienced in a planet-like gravitational field.
This planar, axisymmetric layout seems to prevail throughout most of the volume of the Death Star. The exposed interior of the Death Star II showed a distinctive planar cylindrical grain. If the decks and mechanisms of this region had a planet-like gravity then we would expect layering in spherical shells instead. In fact the region of spherical symmetry seems only to involve the outermost skin of the station.
Crossing the interface between regions of different gravity could be discomforting for the crew. The interfaces are never shown on film, but they might be similar to the access tube leading to the laser cannon stations of the Millennium Falcon, where the gunner climbs through regions of mutually-perpendicular gravity by clinging to a ladder. Perhaps regions of different gravity in the Death Star are unconnected and self-contained, preventing the disorientation problems altogether. Perhaps there are corridors which curve around gently, with the direction of gravity varying smoothly from one region to the other. Perhaps the adjustment is made via a ride in a turbolift. Turbolifts are already likely to have their own inertial dampers and self-contained artificial gravity systems for the comfort and safety of occupants.