Okay, we did this a few months ago with U2 and I thought we might try again. The way it works is I will post the featured artists albums in chronological order and we will discuss each one over a short period of time. As the discussion begins to die down I will post the next album and discussion will gear up again. Make sense? Try to keep your comments focused on the album at hand.

This is another band that fuels a lot of strong feelings on this board so I think this should be a good discussion.

Past Threads:

U2

Released: 1991

Tracklisting:

1. I Am One
2. Siva
3. Rhinoceros
4. Bury Me
5. Crush
6. Suffer
7. Snail
8. Tristessa
9. Window Paine
10. Daydream

Credits:

I used to not like "Gish", but the album really grew on my over the past 4 years.

Oddly, I don't think I've ever listened to Gish.

Standout tracks?

I like most Pumpkins stuff...

= J

Aside from "Rhinoceros", I really like the song "Crush".

I thought this album was okay (as well as the EP "Lull"), but I had a bad feeling about these guys. At the time I was hoping weirder bands would become popular and I never really could get past Corgan's voice. I'll bow out here!

What to say about "Gish"...

On one hand, I find it a bit uneven. There's nothing bad per se, but tracks like 'Crush' and 'Suffer' in particular stand out as a bit weaker when put next to powerhouses like 'Bury Me' and 'Snail'. [Though 'I'm Going Crazy' hidden away at the end always makes me cringe a bit...] Some of it goes on for a bit too long, and they don't always achieve what they set out to, but that's actually part of the reason I do love it so much.

Mostly though, it's fantastic and my second favorite Pumpkins album. [Though really, at this point I can only really listen to the first two so that's not saying much.] As polietilen mentioned, there's a HUGE debt to Jane's Addiction on display here, and they touch on true 70's psychodelic rock moreso than on subsequent releases - particularly 'Rhinoceros'. I think it's the truest representation of the band as a whole that ever got committed to tape.

Favorite tracks : 'Bury Me', 'Snail', 'Rhinoceros'

I hope we finally get proper releases of some of the pre-"Gish" demo stuff in the forthcoming boxset. 'Spiteface', 'Stars Fall In', 'East', 'Jennifer Ever'...the list goes on and on of tracks I can't believe didn't make it to the album at the expense of some of the weaker tracks.

The first half of Gish is a motherfucker. The second half is OK as well, but tapers off.

Well, I posted a message but accidentally deleted it when I wanted to edit it, so here it goes again...

Contrary to the consensus, this has always been my favorite Pumpkins record. Maybe it's because I was there from the beginning listening to them. Having said that, this is a fantastic set of songs. Even the not so pristine production can't tarnish them; it actually gives them an added charm. From a technical musical standpoint, this is their most balanced instrumentally. Jimmy's drumming specially is his best of all the records he's played in. There's also a huge Jane's Addiction influence here that was never to be seen again. I also like that the album is not over produced. It lets the instruments "breathe" in the mix much better, and god knows this is good thing considering Billy liked to lay track upon track from the beginning. Not that there's anything bad with multitracking, mind you, it's just that Corgan became too obsessed with it later, at the expense of the songwriting. Also, Billy's egomaniac side wasn't so obvious at this time, and this more than anything it's what's hurt this band through the years. But this is not the last album that I like.

Highlights: I find the whole 1st side is perfect (I specially love that segue between "Rhinoceros" and "Bury Me"), and "Crush" is just a gentle, albeit melancholy musical way to end all that intensity. From the 2nd side, "Snail" and "Tristessa" are my faves.

I agree with a lot of what has been said already, including feeling a Jane's Addicition vibe running through a lot of this album, particularly in some of the bass lines and psychadelic guitar sound.
That said, this remains my second favorite Pumpkins record behind only Siamese Dream. This record and the follow up both appear to me to have a heart on the sleeve sincerity that seemed to become more diluted as time went on with the band. Or maybe that's just my impressions, I'm not sure.
I love the flow of this whole record, but particularly have fondness for Rhinocerous, Crush, Snail and the end of Bury Me. Overall, I think this is a great place to start for new Pumpkins fans as it gives the listener a good idea of the loud, soft, loud dynamics of the band (i.e. Siva), the beginnings of the Pumpkins crunch sound (explored considerably futher in tracks like Jellybelly) and Corgan's talents as a songwriter.
I love this album and am very excited to see what is on the forthcoming Gish box set.

I like "Honeyspider", I hope that makes it onto the boxset.

I still listen to this album on a semi-regular basis. Never get tired of that awesome lead guitar on "Bury Me" near the end. I always thought "Daydream" was a pretty song - kinda wish D'Arcy had been given more than that one token track, as she provides a nice contrast to Corgan's voice, which can get a bit repetitive after a while. Some of the lyrics are a bit weak and cliched, but the sheer, galvanizing force of the music makes up for it.

I always kind of wished D'arcy would pull a Kim Deal and sing backup on more songs after "Daydream".

I had gish on cassette. I listened to it non-stop for a couple months. I have since lost the tape and haven't listened to gish again. Rhinoceros was definitely my favorite track.

I have all the pumpkins albums, but really never listened to many of them...crazy huh!

I give Gish a spin tonight and report back. By the way Auto...the U2 thread was awesome...a nice cool idea for a thread. Keep it up!

I really like Gish, but the band was still finding its foothold on how to create music and be a band, there are several songs on there that I would put into my top 20 pumpkins songs of all time. Not one of their better albums, but also not their worst.

Great idea

Siva, I am One, Rhino are my favorites. Bury me, crush and tristessa are also good listens.

Question for auto (is your name otto?). How do you determine what band to pick for these threads?

Was Speed a gish era song?

For those looking for a introduction to early pumpkins era music, grabbing Mashed Potatoes would be a great start, here is a track listing from spfc.org, which is the #1 site for any pumpkins information:

http://www.spfc.org/songs-releases/b...ml?boot_id=169

gish is probably my favorite pumpkins album. while i think it, along with the next one were both highly derivative, this one set the precident for the SP "sound" with a handful of brilliant and awesome songs: crush, rhinoceros, i am one.

The first four songs of Gish rank among my favorite SP songs, along with Tristessa. I agree, this album does lack consistency, but this was before SP began the grand album concept theme, and just more a collection of songs. I Am One has one of the great rock drum tracks of our generation and highlights just how amazing Chamberlain is. Although not the album that led to my obsession with all things Pumpkins (that would be SD), it's still very good.

Thanks! I got married in June so there was a lapse between the first and second threads but my plan is to keep these threads going for as long as people are interested. When this one finishes I will start up #3.

Nope, my name on DVDTalk was originally automator and, after a few years, the mods let me shorten it.

So far, I have just tried to pick bands that are popular on these boards. The hopes are that I can keep it going for as long as possible and people continue to contribute. If you have a suggestion for an upcoming thread, shoot me an e-mail.

For me Gish is kind of like Pablo Honey for the Pumpkins. It was the start of something that wouldn't be full realized until the next two albums (which are my two favorites by the Pumpkins).

I'd also recommend looking up "Reel Time Sessions".

On my big Pumpkins search some years ago I found "Gish Basement Tapes" which I think is a demo of some kind. Has some unpolished versions of "I am one", "Bury Me", "Rhinoceros" & "Daydream" along with the song "Not Worth Asking". NWA is (as far as I know) only included in the "Reel Time Sessions" (other than the demo).

If any of you were to break down mashed potatoes into one cd, what songs would be on it? I think for the most part, most of mashed potatoes was before Siamese dream.