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grundle
03-07-08, 10:29 AM
New Hampshire is the state that was chosen by the Free State Project Libertarians. Here's a list of 101 reasons why they like the state:

http://www.freestateproject.org/files/101-Reasons-to-Move-to-NH.pdf

Here are a few things from that list.

The state has no income tax, capital gains tax, or sales tax.

The state has open carry of guns without even requiring a permit. And it has a "shall issue" policy for concealed carry.

Members of the state legislature are paid $100 a year.

All voting is done by paper ballot.

For every dollar that the state pays in federal taxes, it gets back only 71 cents in federal spending. So there's no dependency on the federal government.

Here are the results of those Libertarian policies:


http://finance.move.com/homefinance/RealEstateNews/General/States.asp?gate=ibs_fts&source=a12525&poe=homestore

New Hampshire Again Nation's Most Livable State

Mississippi reclaims last place

For the fourth consecutive year, New Hampshire was named the nation’s Most Livable State by Morgan Quitno Press, which determined its 17th annual award from its just released reference book "State Rankings 2007."

At the other end of the spectrum, statistics returned Mississippi at the bottom of the scale for the ninth time in the past 10 years. Louisiana, which ranked No. 50 last year, is No. 49.

“New Hampshire does an outstanding job in a number of quality of life areas,” said Scott Morgan, president of Morgan Quitno Press. “The state has the lowest crime and poverty rates in the country. In addition, the citizens of New Hampshire are employed, well educated and involved in their communities.”

44 Factors Determine Ranking

Recognizing a state for its high quality of life, Morgan Quitno Press issues its Livable State Award based on 44 factors selected from updated editions of its annual reference book, "State Rankings." The 2007 edition of "State Rankings" compares states in more than 550 categories.

Rounding out the top five spots with New Hampshire are (in descending order) Wyoming, Utah, Minnesota and New Jersey. Bringing up the opposite end of the rankings scale ahead of Mississippi and Louisiana are Arkansas in 48th, Kentucky in 47th and South Carolina in 46th place.

Oregon Makes Big Gains

Oregon made the biggest jump to No. 23, up 10 spots from last year. Utah moved from No. 10 to its third-place showing this year. Missouri was the biggest loser at No. 34, down from No. 27. Wisconsin at No. 20 and No. 31 Washington each fell six spots.

Morgan Quitno considers its award unique because it takes into account a broad range of economic, educational, health-oriented, public safety and environmental statistics. To determine a state's "livability rating," Morgan Quitno averaged each state's rankings for 44 categories. Those categories included both positive and negative factors, such as unemployment rates, job growth, sunny days, teenage birthrates, homeownership, books in public libraries per capita, and highway fatality rates, among other criteria.

Data used are for the most recent year in which comparable numbers are available from most states. All factors were given equal weight. States with no data available for a given category were ranked based only on the remaining factors.

Venusian
03-07-08, 10:43 AM
The armpit of America is number 5?

Nazgul
03-07-08, 10:59 AM
Ugh. I feel dirty about the idea that Libertarians feel like NH is a haven. Perhaps I won't move back.

JasonF
03-07-08, 11:00 AM
Shouldn't we let the market decide what is the bets state in which to live? Based on sheer numbers, California wins. Based on population density, New Jersey wins.

New Hampshire is pretty far down on the list, coming in at #41 in raw population and #20 in population density. If it's so great, why aren't more people moving there?

kvrdave
03-07-08, 11:04 AM
Perhaps it is easiest to be a libertarian in places where there is low crime and poverty.

Venusian
03-07-08, 11:15 AM
Shouldn't we let the market decide what is the bets state in which to live? Based on sheer numbers, California wins. Based on population density, New Jersey wins.

New Hampshire is pretty far down on the list, coming in at #41 in raw population and #20 in population density. If it's so great, why aren't more people moving there?
:lol: :up:

I think population density would be the best measure

Ranger
03-07-08, 12:03 PM
Isn't NH 95% white?

Venusian
03-07-08, 12:11 PM
I thought of that too. And MS has the biggest black population in the country. Weird, huh?

grundle
03-07-08, 12:59 PM
Shouldn't we let the market decide what is the bets state in which to live? Based on sheer numbers, California wins. Based on population density, New Jersey wins.

New Hampshire is pretty far down on the list, coming in at #41 in raw population and #20 in population density. If it's so great, why aren't more people moving there?



Because it's really, really cold.

grundle
03-07-08, 01:01 PM
Perhaps it is easiest to be a libertarian in places where there is low crime and poverty.

The lack of taxation on income and capital gains means they are more interested in the creation of wealth than in the redistribution of wealth, which explains why poverty is so low. It's better to spend money on jobs than on welfare.

grundle
03-07-08, 01:04 PM
Isn't NH 95% white?


98%.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_hampshire

kvrdave
03-07-08, 01:16 PM
The lack of taxation on income and capital gains means they are more interested in the creation of wealth than in the redistribution of wealth, which explains why poverty is so low. It's better to spend money on jobs than on welfare.


Retake a stat class.

JasonF
03-07-08, 01:17 PM
Because it's really, really cold.

So is the subject of your other thread, Chicago, yet twice as many people live in Chicago as in New Hampshire. Is this a market failure?

Nazgul
03-07-08, 01:21 PM
The lack of taxation on income and capital gains means they are more interested in the creation of wealth than in the redistribution of wealth, which explains why poverty is so low. It's better to spend money on jobs than on welfare.

Where does the tax revenue come from then? I did not see it mentioned, so I assume it was skipped to make the picture look better.

As for poverty being low, I guess I saw enough to realize that that's not true at all.

Venusian
03-07-08, 01:24 PM
All voting is done by paper ballot.
you sure about that?

Nazgul
03-07-08, 01:28 PM
you sure about that?

Yes. (I had to look it up)

656:1-a Paper Ballots. For purposes of facilitating the examination and recounting of votes cast, all elections shall be conducted using paper ballots in accordance with this title

Venusian
03-07-08, 01:29 PM
Then why was there all that talk about irregularities during the primaries? I also found some references to diebold machines

Ranger
03-07-08, 01:47 PM
I thought of that too. And MS has the biggest black population in the country. Weird, huh?
What's weird is that the thread title isn't (White) New Hampshire Again Nation's Most Livable State(Lowest crime & poverty).

Ky-Fi
03-07-08, 02:31 PM
Where does the tax revenue come from then? I did not see it mentioned, so I assume it was skipped to make the picture look better.

As for poverty being low, I guess I saw enough to realize that that's not true at all.

A good chunk of it is from real estate taxes. I considered moving to Southern NH a few years ago, and you can pay some pretty steep tax bills there.

Nazgul
03-07-08, 02:50 PM
A good chunk of it is from real estate taxes. I considered moving to Southern NH a few years ago, and you can pay some pretty steep tax bills there.

You are correct, sir!

wendersfan
03-07-08, 02:59 PM
The lack of taxation on income and capital gains means they are more interested in the creation of wealth than in the redistribution of wealth, which explains why poverty is so low. It's better to spend money on jobs than on welfare.There's no relationship between state tax rates and the level of poverty in that state. Connecticut has very few poor people, yet it has the same state income tax structure as Mississippi.

Here's a comparison of state sales tax rates and % of persons living below the poverty level:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2110/2316611883_45f0de41d7.jpg
Note the distinct lack of a relationship.

classicman2
03-07-08, 03:51 PM
Isn't NH 95% white?

Watch yourself - you're in danger of being accused of being a racist - like I've been accused of being one in the presidential election thread. :)

classicman2
03-07-08, 03:53 PM
wendersfan,

Thank you for post no. 21.

I don't know about others, but I've missed you graphs - or is it a chart? :)

grundle
03-08-08, 09:17 AM
Retake a stat class.


Please explain why you think my statement was wrong.

grundle
03-08-08, 09:17 AM
So is the subject of your other thread, Chicago, yet twice as many people live in Chicago as in New Hampshire. Is this a market failure?


I don't know.

grundle
03-08-08, 09:18 AM
Where does the tax revenue come from then? I did not see it mentioned, so I assume it was skipped to make the picture look better.

As for poverty being low, I guess I saw enough to realize that that's not true at all.

They have property taxes.

I never said they had zero poverty. I said they had the lowest poverty rate of any U.S. state.

grundle
03-08-08, 09:23 AM
you sure about that?

Yes. It's #30 on this PDF document:

http://www.freestateproject.org/files/101-Reasons-to-Move-to-NH.pdf

grundle
03-08-08, 09:30 AM
There's no relationship between state tax rates and the level of poverty in that state. Connecticut has very few poor people, yet it has the same state income tax structure as Mississippi.

Here's a comparison of state sales tax rates and % of persons living below the poverty level:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2110/2316611883_45f0de41d7.jpg
Note the distinct lack of a relationship.



Your chart is about the sales tax.

In my post that you quoted, I did not say anything about sales taxes. I only mentioned income and capital gains taxes.

This is what you quoted me on:

The lack of taxation on income and capital gains means they are more interested in the creation of wealth than in the redistribution of wealth, which explains why poverty is so low. It's better to spend money on jobs than on welfare.

See? I never said anything in there about sales tax.

Here is more information to back up my point:


http://www.opinionjournal.com/federation/feature/?id=110008350

'Live Free or Move'

Jobs are flocking to low-tax states for a reason.

by LAWRENCE J. MCQUILLAN AND HOVANNES ABRAMYAN

Tuesday, May 16, 2006 12:01 a.m. EDT

Voters will elect governors in 36 states this year. And as they decide who to send to the governor's mansion, they will also be shaping the economic future of their state. On taxes, the gubernatorial candidates fall into one of two camps. Either they believe that the best way to close a budget gap is to raise taxes. Or, like Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush have done from the Oval Office, they believe in raising revenue by growing the state's economy with tax cuts.

Now new data is out and it shows that the states that embraced supply-side tax cuts are not only financially more sound and enjoy stronger economies, but they are draining residents away from the states that opted for high taxes. The Pacific Research Institute has crunched the tax numbers in all 50 states and published the "U.S. Economic Freedom Index" ranking all states according to how friendly or unfriendly their policies were toward free enterprise and consumer choice in 2004--the most recent year that comparative data is available for each state. It's clear that the economic policies of 2004 determined where each state fell in the rankings, and shaped 2005 economic performance.

It isn't just fun to pinpoint which states are getting it wrong. Where a state falls on the U.S. Economic Freedom Index also indicates how likely it is to experience real economic growth over the long term. Individuals looking to open a new business, expand operations or market new products weigh the comparative costs and benefits of different locations. They evaluate local universities, transportation networks, labor skills, market size and even the weather. They also assess the policy climate. Economic freedom--a favorable state tax, regulatory, and legal climate--attracts entrepreneurs and capital, thereby increasing jobs and wages.

In 2005, per capita personal income grew 31% faster in the 15 most economically free states than it did in the 15 states at the bottom of the list. And employment growth was a staggering 216% higher in the most free states. It hasn't been a "jobless recovery" in states that have adopted pro-growth tax and regulatory policies.

wendersfan
03-08-08, 09:39 AM
Your chart is about the sales tax.

In my post that you quoted, I did not say anything about sales taxes. I only mentioned income and capital gains taxes.

This is what you quoted me on:

See? I never said anything in there about sales tax.


Your original post that started this thread beganNew Hampshire is the state that was chosen by the Free State Project Libertarians. Here's a list of 101 reasons why they like the state:

http://www.freestateproject.org/fil...-Move-to-NH.pdf

Here are a few things from that list.

The state has no income tax, capital gains tax, or sales tax.I pointed out in my previous post that the income tax rates of states with among the highest levels of poverty in the country and the income tax rates of states with among the lowest levels were in some cases identical. Since income tax rates taxes on capital gains are harder to describe univariately, I chose sales taxes, the third type of tax you initially mentioned. Since, with some variation in the types of goods excluded, it can easily be described with a single variable, it is by far the most effective of the three in representing in a two-dimensional space.

foggy
03-08-08, 09:52 AM
Property taxes in New Hampshire are brutal. I read some articles a couple of years ago about how some towns in the state raised people's tax bills 400 to 500% in a single year. They could do this because, unlike many other states (California Prop 13, Massachusetts Prop 2 1/2), there are no laws regulating how quickly property taxes can be raised.

A funny thing about New Hampshire is that hard liquor is only sold in state-run stores, just like much of the South. That seems kind of Socialistic rather than Libertarian.

grundle
03-09-08, 10:28 PM
Your original post that started this thread beganI pointed out in my previous post that the income tax rates of states with among the highest levels of poverty in the country and the income tax rates of states with among the lowest levels were in some cases identical. Since income tax rates taxes on capital gains are harder to describe univariately, I chose sales taxes, the third type of tax you initially mentioned. Since, with some variation in the types of goods excluded, it can easily be described with a single variable, it is by far the most effective of the three in representing in a two-dimensional space.



I did indeed mention sales tax in my original post. But not in the post where you quoted me.

I think the people who create jobs are more influenced by income and capital gains taxes, than by sales taxes.

grundle
03-09-08, 10:29 PM
Property taxes in New Hampshire are brutal. I read some articles a couple of years ago about how some towns in the state raised people's tax bills 400 to 500% in a single year. They could do this because, unlike many other states (California Prop 13, Massachusetts Prop 2 1/2), there are no laws regulating how quickly property taxes can be raised.

A funny thing about New Hampshire is that hard liquor is only sold in state-run stores, just like much of the South. That seems kind of Socialistic rather than Libertarian.


Yes. You are right.

I never said it was 100% libertarian.

wm lopez
03-09-08, 11:11 PM
Do they have a problem with illegals like the rest of America does?

NotThatGuy
03-10-08, 09:59 AM
Do they have a problem with illegals like the rest of America does?

Nah, too far to commute back and forth across the border.

wishbone
03-10-08, 10:06 AM
Eight other States --Maine, Montana, New Hampshire, North Dakota, South Dakota, Vermont, West Virginia, and Wyoming --each had fewer than 2,500 estimated unauthorized residents in 1990 and 2000.

SOURCE: US Citizenship and Immigration Services (http://uscis.gov/graphics/index.htm), field report, 2000.
http://www.statemaster.com/graph/peo_est_num_of_ill_imm-people-estimated-number-illegal-immigrants

wendersfan
03-10-08, 10:53 AM
Maine, Montana, New Hampshire, North Dakota, South Dakota, Vermont, <b><blink>West Virginia</blink></b>, and Wyoming --each had fewer than 2,500 estimated unauthorized residents in 1990 and 2000.One of these things is not like the others. One of these things does not belong.

:)

Groucho
03-10-08, 11:45 AM
Shouldn't we let the market decide what is the bets state in which to live? Based on sheer numbers, California wins. Based on population density, New Jersey wins.

New Hampshire is pretty far down on the list, coming in at #41 in raw population and #20 in population density. If it's so great, why aren't more people moving there?Tears are streaming from my eyes. Post of the Year

grundle
03-11-08, 02:39 PM
Do they have a problem with illegals like the rest of America does?

Yes - millions of Canadians illegally enter New Hampshire every year.


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