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MartinBlank
02-16-08, 02:43 AM
I'm not posting the video here, it's extremely graphic and can be found at the link below that accompanies this story.


February 15, 2008
Most Shocking Video Ever: 12 Year Old Taliban Boy Beheads Man (Uncensored Version)

Some time back we brought you news that the Taliban had reached new lows and were now circulating a propaganda video, produced by the Taliban themselves, showing a 12 year old boy beheading a hostage. Censored video of the horrific act eventually made it to the internet, but we showed some screencaps from the uncensored version in order to show just how horrible the enemy we fight in Afghanistan really are.

How bad are the Taliban? I thought I had seen horrible videos produced by al Qaeda, the Taliban, and other Islamist organizations. I'd seen the depth of their depravity when they beheaded Daniel Pearl. Experienced what I thought was the highest form of righteous indignation possible when they murdered dozens of other hostages. Felt like I knew what wrath was.

None of it even comes close. The images we posted earlier were bad. Add video and sound of a child---a child--slowly hacking away at a man's head while he lives on.....no words can describe it.

Strongest possible content warning: Proceed with extreme caution!

It's so bad that there was some debate amongst ourselves whether to show it or not. Yesterday we put up a link to a video showing al Qaeda in Iraq burning hostages alive. Allahpundit, speaking of that same video says:

Not for those with weak stomachs; not really for those with strong stomachs, either. But force yourself, as none of Cordesmanís charts, as impressive as they are, will drive home to you like this will what it means in practical terms that far fewer of these subhumans are walking around Iraq today than last year. They deserve every misery inflicted upon them.

Indeed. No, the Taliban aren't the "Iraqi resistance" which some on the fringes of the left seem to love so much, but they're just as bad.

Strongest possible content warning: You are about to see the true face of our enemies. This is not an American propaganda video, it was made by the Taliban themselves. This is why we fight. This is why we must win.


We'll see how long the video lasts. Original video can be found at here, but site contains sexually explicit ads around the video, hence our reluctance to link them directly.

Previously: Taliban Child Beheading Uncensored Images

Update: NY Times ignores atrocities of the most disgustingly vile enemy the U.S. has faced since the Nazis, instead outraged by blindfolding suspects in Iraq. That's right, blindfolding.

The video can be found at the original link link removed




If only we knew why they hated so much, then we could sit down and talk through our differences...you know, express our feelings 'n shit. I'm sure this is somehow George Bush's fault. -ohbfrank-

I'm sure glad our biggest problem in America is that of passing out condoms to 12 year olds :(

mhg83
02-16-08, 06:49 AM
That was really fucked up. I dont think we'll ever understand why they do this kind of sick shit.

wm lopez
02-16-08, 07:15 AM
That was really fucked up. I dont think we'll ever understand why they do this kind of sick shit.
It's the sign of the times and is why we voted George W in for 8 years to keep us safe.

VinVega
02-16-08, 10:10 AM
mod note - Don't link to that kind of graphic violence here. The story is evidence enough

DVD Polizei
02-16-08, 10:26 AM
This is not an American propaganda video, it was made by the Taliban themselves. This is why we fight. This is why we must win.

Yeah, ok. Just a footnote. You can't shoot and fight your way to victory with something like this. This is culture. It is ingrained into their membranes.

You cannot fire a weapon at a belief and expect it to die.

Not that I'm against killing Taliban members--I'd love to test my theories on sharp vs. dull knives myself on these idiots--but creating dead bodies for your enemy only gives them more propaganda as well. It's an endless cycle. They kill people and post video, we bomb their hideouts, they kill more people, we bomb more Taliban hideouts.

mhg83
02-16-08, 11:21 AM
This is not an American propaganda video, it was made by the Taliban themselves. This is why we fight. This is why we must win.

Yeah, ok. Just a footnote. You can't shoot and fight your way to victory with something like this. This is culture. It is ingrained into their membranes.

You cannot fire a weapon at a belief and expect it to die.

Not that I'm against killing Taliban members--I'd love to test my theories on sharp vs. dull knives myself on these idiots--but creating dead bodies for your enemy only gives them more propaganda as well. It's an endless cycle. They kill people and post video, we bomb their hideouts, they kill more people, we bomb more Taliban hideouts.

so we should just nuke em all into oblivion. That might send them the right message.

kvrdave
02-16-08, 04:40 PM
so we should just nuke em all into oblivion. That might send them the right message.


I think that is probably the best long term solution, personally. If you don't want to be part of the species, we will remove you from it.

Superboy
02-17-08, 02:52 AM
I think that is probably the best long term solution, personally. If you don't want to be part of the species, we will remove you from it.

You act as if there is something uniquely pathological about these people, when in reality their behavior is more than universal.

al_bundy
02-17-08, 07:47 AM
reminds me of that Bible story about Joshua I think it was and how his son didn't kill the prisoner

i don't know why some people get worked up over things like this. the reality of life for most of the world's population is very different than for the small minority of people that are lucky enough to live in the US, Western Europe and a few other countries who make moral judgements about it. for most of the worlds population life is not too different than what you read in the history books or watch on cable TV. In India parents still sell their kids into slavery for some quick cash just like they have done for thousands of years.

in afghanistan and western pakistan the reality of life has been constant warfare for as long as anyone can remember

Ky-Fi
02-17-08, 08:21 AM
You act as if there is something uniquely pathological about these people, when in reality their behavior is more than universal.

And you're acting as if condemning a behavior and belief system hasn't been the bedrock of any moral progress the human race as ever made.

DVD Polizei
02-17-08, 08:54 AM
Are you saying the US is the pinnacle of moral progress? How many deaths of innocent people occur each year from alcohol in the US? And now how many deaths occur from drinking alcohol in Middle East countries where their moral compass is allegedly bent.

We don't chop people's heads off, but we still kill people. So, whether you chop a guy's head off or plow into a family while you're drunk, we still manage to kill a rather large number of innocent people (and children) every single year. No attempts from our society to stop it. We tolerate it. Just like other countries tolerate beheadings.

Sorry to burst the bubble of Moral Progress, but the US is far from being "better" than other countries. And when you take into account the rise in mass murders of people using guns (which may develop into something else in the future), the overall picture of the US vs. Them is certainly not different at all, except for the method.

We may be more advanced than other countries, but people are still murdered and killed here. When that changes to a big fat ZERO, then we can talk about us being better than them.

Until then, we need to pull out completely, tell them "See yah", let them kill each other, and concentrate on our own societal ills. Because we will NEVER change their culture as we currently are attempting to do.

Ky-Fi
02-17-08, 09:14 AM
Sorry to burst the bubble of Moral Progress, but the US is far from being "better" than other countries. And when you take into account the rise in mass murders of people using guns (which may develop into something else in the future), the overall picture of the US vs. Them is certainly not different at all, except for the method.


That's fine, but I think you should explain that to the millions upon millions who are giving up everything and risking their lives, using methods legal and illegal, for the chance to emigrate to the US, Canada, Western Europe and Australia. They're obviously quite misguided and have a skewed view of reality, as they could probably find much cheaper housing in Afghanistan.

Jason
02-17-08, 10:23 AM
How inhuman. It's amazing how little regard people have for those they find distasteful.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go burn down the house of the accused child molester down the street.

dtcarson
02-17-08, 10:55 AM
Are you saying the US is the pinnacle of moral progress? How many deaths of innocent people occur each year from alcohol in the US?


Voluntarily consuming alcohol and suffering the consequences thereof is juuuust a little different from having your head sawed off by a brainwashed fanatical 12 year old kid--and videotaped.
Even if you're talking about drunk driving accidents, the key word there is "accident". (I'm not condoning DUI and the havoc drunk drivers can cause in any way, and think they should be punished/treated.) But even that is a different scenario.

School shootings or serial killings do occur, no argument here. We don't tolerate it. We try to catch the attackers and punish/treat them. We even (incorrectly, imho) try to create "gun free zones" in certain areas due to a flawed idea that those laws will prevent chaos. If the attackers survive, they are generally either taken to jail or to a mental facility for a long time. We also--unlike the nations that "tolerate" (how about "glorify") these beheadings--value individual freedom and choice; and some people make poor choices, and until about twenty years ago, they had to deal with the consequences of those decisions (while still being able to access assistance).

We're not perfect, and there's undeniably room for improvement. But don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. I think we're about nine jillion times better off than most other countries in the world.

Groucho
02-17-08, 11:01 AM
It's hard to take the moral high road when you're proposing genocide as a solution.

bhk
02-17-08, 11:51 AM
Just another day at the Islamofascist office.

Superboy
02-17-08, 12:27 PM
And you're acting as if condemning a behavior and belief system hasn't been the bedrock of any moral progress the human race as ever made.

Actually, I find that statement extremely vague. I suppose we can then call "moral progress" the condemnation of the following:

homosexuality
adultery
divorce
premarital sex
recreational drug usage
witches and the subsequent witch trials
the holocaust

...there's probably more i'm forgetting, but if you call condemning people in general the "bedrock of any moral progress the human race has ever made" then you probably need a lesson in history.

Ky-Fi
02-17-08, 12:38 PM
condemning a behavior and belief system...


but if you call condemning people in general......

Obviously, you implied that I said something quite different than what I actually said.

And pursuant to some of the examples you gave, yes, it's a given that people can be morally mistaken in what they condemn. I never said that wasn't the case. What I said was that speaking out and condemning a moral wrong is NECESSARILY REQUIRED in order to eradicate that wrong. I'm not seeing the flaw in my logic.

Superboy
02-17-08, 01:12 PM
Obviously, you implied that I said something quite different than what I actually said.

And pursuant to some of the examples you gave, yes, it's a given that people can be morally mistaken in what they condemn. I never said that wasn't the case. What I said was that speaking out and condemning a moral wrong is NECESSARILY REQUIRED in order to eradicate that wrong. I'm not seeing the flaw in my logic.

Because you assume that the world is a better place now or has been made a better place through the condemnation of behaviors and beliefs when in fact it is the very thing that people have been fighting against.

Also consider the society that you depict. I do not want to imagine a slippery slope argument but consider that even in the most liberal of societies, McCarthyism is still possible and carries with it a legacy that America does not want to carry on.

Ky-Fi
02-17-08, 02:34 PM
Because you assume that the world is a better place now or has been made a better place through the condemnation of behaviors and beliefs ....

I most certainly do assume that, and I can't think of any major social advancement in the west that didn't require that---from the abolition of slavery and Jim Crow, to the suffragette movement, to the Civil rights movement, to women's rights and gay rights, and artists' rights of expression...etc. And if you don't believe in condemning behaviors and beliefs on moral grounds, then logically you'd have to support disbanding things like Amnesty International, Human Rights watch, international movements against human trafficing, child sex trafficing, etc---indeed the very concept of universal human rights.

NORML54601
02-17-08, 04:02 PM
Doesn't it go without saying that when a 12 year old beheads someone, he not a boy anymore.

DVD Polizei
02-17-08, 04:38 PM
Pretty much. Idiots can be any age. Yes, even at two-years old.

DVD Polizei
02-17-08, 04:44 PM
That's fine, but I think you should explain that to the millions upon millions who are giving up everything and risking their lives, using methods legal and illegal, for the chance to emigrate to the US, Canada, Western Europe and Australia. They're obviously quite misguided and have a skewed view of reality, as they could probably find much cheaper housing in Afghanistan.

Well, I'm not saying we don't have a peculiar bunch of freaks in particular geographic areas in the world. What I am trying to convey to you, is the methods are simply different to the same end: death.

Yes, the US is certainly a better place to live. I'm not saying it isn't. I'm just saying we kill quite a few people over here as well. The chances of being beheaded in the US are rather low...just like the chances of getting hit by a drunk driver in Afghanistan...is rather low.

Looking at this from merely a death angle, it's not much different. But when we look at the methods of death, this is where all the debates and arguments occur.

eXcentris
02-17-08, 04:46 PM
"Of nine governments worldwide implicated in the recruitment or use of children as soldiers, eight receive US military assistance."

http://hrw.org/campaigns/crp/child_soldiers/index.htm (video)

Time to write your congressman...

http://hrw.org/campaigns/crp/child_soldiers/takeaction.htm

dtcarson
02-17-08, 04:52 PM
Actually, by that logic, the debate is over. All countries suck, because in every country, every person has a 100% chance of death.

However, I think most people see a difference between dying by beheaded by 12 year old psychos, or stoned to death by the government, and running the risk of getting hit by a drunk driver.

crazyronin
02-17-08, 04:58 PM
"Of nine governments worldwide implicated in the recruitment or use of children as soldiers, eight receive US military assistance."

http://hrw.org/campaigns/crp/child_soldiers/index.htm (video)

Time to write your congressman...

http://hrw.org/campaigns/crp/child_soldiers/takeaction.htm

From their website:

Although many child soldiers are found in non-governmental armed opposition groups, the State Department reports that governments in nine countries are implicated in child soldier use. The US government provides military assistance to ten of them.

America! Fuck yeah! We're so awesome that there are nine countries that use child soldiers and we support ten of them! :rock2:

Ky-Fi
02-17-08, 05:06 PM
Just another case of America falling behind:

<embed src="http://www.theonion.com/content/themes/common/assets/videoplayer/flvplayer.swf" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowScriptAccess="always" wmode="transparent" width="400" height="355" flashvars="file=http://www.theonion.com/content/xml/72125/video&autostart=false&image=http://www.theonion.com/content/files/images/CHILD_SOLDIERS_ORIGINAL.jpg&bufferlength=3&embedded=true&title=Report%3A%20American%20Schools%20Trail%20Behind%20World%20In%20Aptitude%20Of%20Child%20Soldier s"></embed><br/><a href="http://www.theonion.com/content/video/report_american_schools_trail?utm_source=embedded_video">Report: American Schools Trail Behind World In Aptitude Of Child Soldiers</a>

Numanoid
02-17-08, 05:14 PM
I find the behavior described in this story despicable. I cannot understand the mindset that believes you should kill others simply because you don't agree with their way of life.

I think that is probably the best long term solution, personally. If you don't want to be part of the species, we will remove you from it.Oh wait...

chris_sc77
02-17-08, 05:27 PM
So where can I see the video?

al_bundy
02-17-08, 05:39 PM
That's fine, but I think you should explain that to the millions upon millions who are giving up everything and risking their lives, using methods legal and illegal, for the chance to emigrate to the US, Canada, Western Europe and Australia. They're obviously quite misguided and have a skewed view of reality, as they could probably find much cheaper housing in Afghanistan.

the quality of life is better here along with the political system

but if you think the US doesn't do some pretty horrible things in war, go to Iraq and Afghanistan and ask the families of all the people that lost friends and loved ones in accidental US bombings

Trout
02-17-08, 05:44 PM
So where can I see the video?

Your life would be better off if you don't see it. Trust me.

Ky-Fi
02-17-08, 05:48 PM
but if you think the US doesn't do some pretty horrible things in war, go to Iraq and Afghanistan and ask the families of all the people that lost friends and loved ones in accidental US bombings

So I said the US doesn't do horrible things in war, and has never been guilty of immoral atrocities? :rolleyes:

Look, if you have a point to make, just make it---you don't need to quote me and infer ridiculous statements that in no way correlate to anything I actually said.

al_bundy
02-17-08, 06:06 PM
the point is we live in a world where if we are hungry there is food everywhere, all kinds of entertainment, on demand medical care that can treat almost everything,children have this thing called childhood they go through, we go on vacations and our worries are tha we might get laid off and only have enough to eat with no money for entertainment

most of the world lives in conditions not much different from 2000 years ago. lack of food, no medical care or all the aults are dead from aids, no cars, one bad harverst or a hurricane away from famine, no clean drinking water, no daily showers, slavery is alive and well, parents still sell their childrend into slavery to have money for food, constant war with neighboring tribes, no childhood because children have to work in order to survive.

i challenge anyone to go live this life and still see if they have the same moral outlook on life. most of you will go crazy living in a mud hut for a week with bugs and no Coke or Pepsi and the same thing to eat almost every day. one week of this life and you will be beheading people as well

we might think that a 12 year old child as a soldier is immoral, but the truth is that most of the world's population lives in conditions where this is reality because people are needed to fight

Ranger
02-17-08, 06:08 PM
the quality of life is better here along with the political system

but if you think the US doesn't do some pretty horrible things in war, go to Iraq and Afghanistan and ask the families of all the people that lost friends and loved ones in accidental US bombings
That's seditious talk. Better watch it.

tommy28
02-17-08, 06:17 PM
WOW:(....

I should not have watched that........


9/11 > nuke > problem solved.

eXcentris
02-17-08, 07:05 PM
And I'm sure in each of those countries the alternative is better than the one supported by the U.S. :sarcasm:

Well obviously, if the alternative doesn't serve US self-interests it must be "worse" for everybody. :sarcasm:

MoviePage
02-17-08, 07:19 PM
Yes, we should just nuke the entire Middle East, because everyone who lives there is evil. There are no shades of grey, and no innocent or good people living there.

We've also had wars with England, Russia, Germany, Japan, and Vietnam in our history. Also, some pretty atrocious things have happened in China, France, Italy, Spain, and countless other parts of the world in just the past century or so. Let's nuke all of these bastards as well (let's face it, the potential for evil is still there somewhere and could emerge again, because evil is specific to particular regions/religions/races and not humanity in general), and that will solve all of the problems we have.

Eventually all that's left will be parts of the U.S. (because many places here will suffer retaliatory nuke strikes during all of this, but that's acceptable because you can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs, the ends justify the means, etc.) and Finland. Vacation options will suck, but that's ok because everyone left alive will be good, nonviolent people who will never have any disagreements or differences in views or beliefs that will cause any conflicts in the future.

DVD Polizei
02-17-08, 07:23 PM
WOW:(....

I should not have watched that........

9/11 > nuke > problem solved.

Yeah, I'm not watching it. I've watched a few several years ago and don't want to watch this kind of stuff again.

Hearing the horrific screams of a human being dwarfed by the gargling sounds of cut organs and veins, and then seeing the body trying to live while the head is a few feet away, is a sure way to go on a diet. And a sure validation to not choose the area for a vacation.

tommy28
02-17-08, 08:11 PM
Yes, we should just nuke the entire Middle East, because everyone who lives there is evil. There are no shades of grey, and no innocent or good people living there.

We've also had wars with England, Russia, Germany, Japan, and Vietnam in our history. Also, some pretty atrocious things have happened in China, France, Italy, Spain, and countless other parts of the world in just the past century or so. Let's nuke all of these bastards as well (let's face it, the potential for evil is still there somewhere and could emerge again, because evil is specific to particular regions/religions/races and not humanity in general), and that will solve all of the problems we have.

Eventually all that's left will be parts of the U.S. (because many places here will suffer retaliatory nuke strikes during all of this, but that's acceptable because you can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs, the ends justify the means, etc.) and Finland. Vacation options will suck, but that's ok because everyone left alive will be good, nonviolent people who will never have any disagreements or differences in views or beliefs that will cause any conflicts in the future.

sorry, the Middle East cannot be compared to all those other countries mentioned. this is not a war like we have ever faught before. so your England, Russia, Germany, Japan, and Vietnam theory goes out the window. unfortunitly it will take one more strike against us more devastating then 9/11. after that, all bets are off!!!

mhg83
02-17-08, 08:16 PM
sorry, the Middle East cannot be compared to all those other countries mentioned. this is not a war like we have ever faught before. so your England, Russia, Germany, Japan, and Vietnam theory goes out the window. unfortunitly it will take one more strike against us more devastating then 9/11. after that, all bets are off!!!

But it seems as if we have a good relationship today with japan and we nuked them. Would the same be said for the middle east?

DVD Polizei
02-17-08, 08:50 PM
sorry, the Middle East cannot be compared to all those other countries mentioned. this is not a war like we have ever faught before. so your England, Russia, Germany, Japan, and Vietnam theory goes out the window. unfortunitly it will take one more strike against us more devastating then 9/11. after that, all bets are off!!!

You might re-think Vietnam. They beheaded US soldiers. Japan conducted experiments on Chinese POWs and civilians in surrounding towns, and beheadings would have been a treat for the imprisoned. Not to mention, in the Pacific in general, Japanese soldiers routinely sliced and diced American troops.

al_bundy
02-18-08, 07:27 AM
sorry, the Middle East cannot be compared to all those other countries mentioned. this is not a war like we have ever faught before. so your England, Russia, Germany, Japan, and Vietnam theory goes out the window. unfortunitly it will take one more strike against us more devastating then 9/11. after that, all bets are off!!!

england, russia and germany did some pretty horrible things. in fact all the genocides of the 20th century share their roots in English colonial policy

it was the english who even made up the first concentration camp

tommy28
02-18-08, 07:38 AM
you'll never change "my" mind.

And mark my words, one day in the not so distant future the Hammer will fall.
unfortuitly it will take another 9/11 type attack on our soil.

these people are animals and scum and dont deserve to live.!!!



all my opinion of course;)

tommy28
02-18-08, 07:47 AM
Sorry to burst the bubble of Moral Progress, but the US is far from being "better" than other countries.




Until then, we need to pull out completely, tell them "See yah", let them kill each other, and concentrate on our own societal ills. Because we will NEVER change their culture as we currently are attempting to do.





Me things DVD Polizei needs to go pump gas in pakistan, afghanistan or iran. let us know how that turns out.. oh ya! say hello to that 12 year old Kid as he's sawing your head off!;)


Your second part i agree 100% with.

someone i think steve martin did this bit"""7 ways to fix this problem""" it came out right after 9/11...

anyone know where that can be found?

Superboy
02-19-08, 01:32 PM
Pretty much. Idiots can be any age. Yes, even at two-years old.


They can also be American.

I most certainly do assume that, and I can't think of any major social advancement in the west that didn't require that---from the abolition of slavery and Jim Crow, to the suffragette movement, to the Civil rights movement, to women's rights and gay rights, and artists' rights of expression...etc. And if you don't believe in condemning behaviors and beliefs on moral grounds, then logically you'd have to support disbanding things like Amnesty International, Human Rights watch, international movements against human trafficing, child sex trafficing, etc---indeed the very concept of universal human rights.

So you chalk up wrongful condemnation in the past as simply being "moral mistakes" as if they are justified as much as you are in your condemnation of other human atrocities like human trafficking, etc etc. So how do you judge what's right and wrong?

Ky-Fi
02-19-08, 04:50 PM
So how do you judge what's right and wrong?

Well, if you're asking how people in general judge what's right and wrong, I would say it's a complex process resulting from many things. For instance, the legal system of the US and the constitutional framework of this country were derived from sources such as the moral teachings of Christianity, the values of individualism via the Enlightenment, legal precedents from other societies including English common law, etc. People have generally deduced right and wrong from the values taught to them by their parents and those learned from their religious, legal, and cultural heritage. This is often tempered and modified by the personal and specific life experiences of an individual.

If you're asking how I PERSONALLY judge right from wrong, well, I have an innate intellect and a sense of morality that far exceeds those of most ordinary humans, and as such even my cursory moral judgements of situations (pursuant to which I may not even be in possession of all, or even many of, the facts) are generally infallible and irrefutable.

MartinBlank
02-19-08, 05:18 PM
Well, if you're asking how people in general judge what's right and wrong, I would say it's a complex process resulting from many things. For instance, the legal system of the US and the constitutional framework of this country were derived from sources such as the moral teachings of Christianity, the values of individualism via the Enlightenment, legal precedents from other societies including English common law, etc. People have generally deduced right and wrong from the values taught to them by their parents and those learned from their religious, legal, and cultural heritage. This is often tempered and modified by the personal and specific life experiences of an individual.

If you're asking how I PERSONALLY judge right from wrong, well, I have an innate intellect and a sense of morality that far exceeds those of most ordinary humans, and as such even my cursory moral judgements of situations (pursuant to which I may not even be in possession of all, or even many of, the facts) are generally infallible and irrefutable.

http://posuto.blog.lemonde.fr/files/2007/06/jiminycricket.1182251989.jpg

I believe a moral compass, right vs. wrong, is ingrained in all of us.

Starting "Black & White Vs. Gray Debate" in 4...3...2....

Chrisedge
02-19-08, 05:41 PM
A South Carolina court has sentenced a boy who killed his grandparents when he was 12 years old to 30 years on each count to be served concurrently.

He was on antidepressant drugs when the murder was committed and said the drugs drove him to killing his grandparents after he had an argument with them over another matter.
*********************
OXNARD (KABC) -- Lawrence King, the 15-year-old boy shot at his junior high school, has been taken off life support and his organs have been given away.
Prosecutors have charged 14-year-old Brandon David McInerney with premeditated murder and want him tried as an adult.
McInerney is jailed on $770,000 bail. A medical examiner plans an autopsy Friday.
Meantime a group is saying calling the student killing an anti-gay attack.
**************************
A young murderer is indicted
Fourteen-year-old Michael Carneal is indicted as an adult on three counts of murder and five counts of attempted murder for the shooting of his classmates at Heath High School in West Paducah, Kentucky. On December 1, Carneal pulled out a pistol and fired 11 shots into a group of students in the school's lobby.
*********************

Yea, cause we are so much better than the rest of the world...

Philzilla
02-19-08, 06:02 PM
A South Carolina court has sentenced a boy who killed his grandparents when he was 12 years old to 30 years on each count to be served concurrently.

He was on antidepressant drugs when the murder was committed and said the drugs drove him to killing his grandparents after he had an argument with them over another matter.
*********************
OXNARD (KABC) -- Lawrence King, the 15-year-old boy shot at his junior high school, has been taken off life support and his organs have been given away.
Prosecutors have charged 14-year-old Brandon David McInerney with premeditated murder and want him tried as an adult.
McInerney is jailed on $770,000 bail. A medical examiner plans an autopsy Friday.
Meantime a group is saying calling the student killing an anti-gay attack.
**************************
A young murderer is indicted
Fourteen-year-old Michael Carneal is indicted as an adult on three counts of murder and five counts of attempted murder for the shooting of his classmates at Heath High School in West Paducah, Kentucky. On December 1, Carneal pulled out a pistol and fired 11 shots into a group of students in the school's lobby.
*********************

Yea, cause we are so much better than the rest of the world...

ah, moral relativism

al_bundy
02-20-08, 07:43 AM
what was most shocking is how they behead people

i thought they had an axe, well if you watch one of the other beheading movies on youtube the bastrads use a knife. they have 4-5 people hold the victim down and one person literally cuts the head from the neck with a knife while the person screams in pain. takes like 20 seconds.

MartinBlank
02-20-08, 10:17 AM
A South Carolina court has sentenced a boy who killed his grandparents when he was 12 years old to 30 years on each count to be served concurrently.

He was on antidepressant drugs when the murder was committed and said the drugs drove him to killing his grandparents after he had an argument with them over another matter.
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OXNARD (KABC) -- Lawrence King, the 15-year-old boy shot at his junior high school, has been taken off life support and his organs have been given away.
Prosecutors have charged 14-year-old Brandon David McInerney with premeditated murder and want him tried as an adult.
McInerney is jailed on $770,000 bail. A medical examiner plans an autopsy Friday.
Meantime a group is saying calling the student killing an anti-gay attack.
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A young murderer is indicted
Fourteen-year-old Michael Carneal is indicted as an adult on three counts of murder and five counts of attempted murder for the shooting of his classmates at Heath High School in West Paducah, Kentucky. On December 1, Carneal pulled out a pistol and fired 11 shots into a group of students in the school's lobby.
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Yea, cause we are so much better than the rest of the world...

These kids are crazy. The kid in the video is just doing his "job".

eXcentris
02-20-08, 02:42 PM
Yes, obviously, 12 y/o's who believe it's their "job" to behead, shoot, torture or maim people are just normal well-adjusted kids.

bhk
02-20-08, 03:09 PM
These kids are crazy. The kid in the video is just doing his "job".

Not "job". They're following what the Koran tells them to do to non-believers.

Superboy
02-20-08, 03:47 PM
Not "job". They're following what the Koran tells them to do to non-believers.

no, they're doing what non-believers who inappropriately follow the Koran are telling them to do.

bhk
02-20-08, 03:57 PM
no, they're doing what non-believers who inappropriately follow the Koran are telling them to do.

Many people mistakenly think this. The Koran is pretty specific on what Muslims should do to non-believers.


Qur'an:9:5 "Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."

Qur'an:9:112 "The Believers fight in Allah's Cause, they slay and are slain, kill and are killed."

Qur'an:9:29 "Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission."

Ishaq:325 "Muslims, fight in Allah's Cause. Stand firm and you will prosper. Help the Prophet, obey him, give him your allegiance, and your religion will be victorious."
Qur'an:8:39 "Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah."
Qur'an:8:39 "So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world)."

Ishaq:324 "He said, 'Fight them so that there is no more rebellion, and religion, all of it, is for Allah only. Allah must have no rivals.'"

Qur'an:9:14 "Fight them and Allah will punish them by your hands, lay them low, and cover them with shame. He will help you over them."

Ishaq:300 "I am fighting in Allah's service. This is piety and a good deed. In Allah's war I do not fear as others should. For this fighting is righteous, true, and good."

Ishaq:587 "Our onslaught will not be a weak faltering affair. We shall fight as long as we live. We will fight until you turn to Islam, humbly seeking refuge. We will fight not caring whom we meet. We will fight whether we destroy ancient holdings or newly gotten gains. We have mutilated every opponent. We have driven them violently before us at the command of Allah and Islam. We will fight until our religion

Philzilla
02-20-08, 04:36 PM
yeah, these are believers,...
but at least they don't waterboard people or place fruit-of-the-looms on peoples head while a dog barks at them

Ky-Fi
02-20-08, 05:00 PM
Many people mistakenly think this. The Koran is pretty specific on what Muslims should do to non-believers.


And when bhk or others post those quotes from the Koran, people often counter with quotes from Leviticus, and the argument that Christianity and Judaism have violent, extreme passages in their texts as well. And what they're suggesting is that Islam must have gone through a liberal reformation like Judaism and Christianity have, and that there are major schools of Islamic scholarship that don't interpret these passages literally. From my reading on the subject, that's just not true. When someone quotes Leviticus about stoning adulterers, I can point to the Pope and the Catholic church, representing over half of the world's Christians, who not only offer a non-literal interpretation of that, but specifically condemn the death penalty in ANY circumstance. And they're drawing on centuries of Christian exegesis and scholarship to come to that conclusion. If anybody can point me to a major school of Shia or Sunni jurisprudence that offers a similarly liberal reading of the Koran, please do so, because I'm not aware of them.

And here's a good summary on the history of liberal reform in Islam:

http://www.meforum.org/article/1000

from that piece:

"Traditional Muslims believe that the Qur'an is immutable. It is not just a sacred text like the Torah or the New Testament but a direct copy of God's word imprinted on the mind of Muhammad via recitation from the Archangel Gabriel. It cannot be rewritten. Indeed, a hadith attributes to Muhammad the saying, "Whosoever disputes a single verse of the Qur'an, strike off his head."[16]

This doctrine has become pernicious for all who attempt a modern understanding of the scripture. Whereas progressive Jewish and Christian scholars and clerics have devised forms of higher criticism that tackle issues of context and period, all efforts to do the same thing with the Qur'an have met with fierce resistance."



Now, does this mean all or most Muslims are acting literally on these verses on a regular basis? Not at all. Most Muslims either ignore or minimize them, and certainly a great many Muslims are cultural Muslims and don't really follow their relgion very closely. But the problem is that when the violent extremists take these verses literally, the Muslims who disagree with that don't have much of a theological leg to stand on to counter the extremists in a debate, which is why the vast majority of moderate Muslims have not been, and will not be, very effective in controlling or eliminating the extremists.

creekdipper
02-21-08, 03:40 AM
Actually, I find that statement extremely vague. I suppose we can then call "moral progress" the condemnation of the following:

homosexuality
adultery
divorce
premarital sex
recreational drug usage
witches and the subsequent witch trials
the holocaust

...there's probably more i'm forgetting, but if you call condemning people in general the "bedrock of any moral progress the human race has ever made" then you probably need a lesson in history.

No, adultery is a wonderful thing that has wonderful implications for societies and which should be embraced by everyone. Any reactionary who opposes adultery is actually impeding moral progress.


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