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Iron Chef
08-07-07, 08:54 AM
http://www.hbo.com/biglove/img/homepage/season02/home_main_ep21_01.jpg

This week, Bill enlists Nicki to sell Barb and Margene on Weber Gaming. Meanwhile, Alby steps forward to "channel" Roman in his hour of need, and Lois decides to hit Frank where it hurts. Tune in Monday at 9 and 11pm for Episode 21: Circle the Wagons.

Did anyone else watch this last night?


Also:

http://www.hbo.com/biglove/img/252x190/season02/252x190_margeneblog_s02.jpg

aktick
08-07-07, 09:16 AM
It was another great ep, except for Barb. She's been really annoying me the last couple weeks. Lois is annoying, but that's normal.

It's funny how Bill is just about the only person on this show who is always making the best decisions for his family, but is also the most chastised for the decisions he makes. Kind of like the "real" world - decision makers get bitched at whether they make the right or wrong decision.

joefrog91
08-07-07, 09:17 AM
I did. I think Bill is taking the family down a dark road and has strayed from his righteous path. Barb seems to be moving away from the Prinicpal more and more. I also believe Barb's simple gesture of putting her hand on Heather's father's hand was misunderstood as a pass. Heather's father seemed to perk up when she did that.

Albie is power hungry and his power play last night will have bad consequences.

Iron Chef
08-07-07, 09:26 AM
I loved the Albie power play last night, and Nikki playing bingo.

I can't decide who was more stupid, Albie, for pulling the prophet / hat thing, or the people at Juniper Creek for believing in that stunt.

Red Dog
08-07-07, 09:32 AM
Nicki was great. She's got bingo fever. :lol:


I can't decide who was more stupid, Albie, for pulling the prophet / hat thing, or the people at Juniper Creek for believing in that stunt.

It worked for Joseph Smith so why not? :lol:

BDB
08-07-07, 11:00 AM
Albie's Power play was great. Ben is a jealous hateful little kid, Barb has been having some issues, and I think was surprised at Sara's responses to her.

I love the show and really enjoy the writing. Nikki was a little naive taking the cash, as Albie will know it was her. Based on her not being there for the testimony.

paradicelost
08-07-07, 11:56 AM
Remembering Niki's spending habit(addiction) in the first season I knew when i saw the look on her face when they were in the "casino" that we would see her there again. I also loved the look on Lois's face when she was looking at sara's boyfriends thigh.
Seems like Barb has noticed that the whole manipulation thing has worked when Niki does it so i guess she trying to go down that road.

BDB
08-07-07, 12:34 PM
I was reminded of nikki's 30K or whatever it was in debt, that seems to just have been resolved? Bill paid it I guess, and we move on.

I did also like her battering the Fridge so her mom couldn't use it.

slop101
08-07-07, 12:40 PM
It's amazing how this show straddles the fine line right in between comedy and creepy. It's masterful, because it's just enough of both, without being too much of either.

DamingR
08-07-07, 01:34 PM
Bill is definitely a "bad guy" in my mind. He's exceptionally greedy. The only adult characters who can really be empathized with in my mind are Margene (so naive that she cannot be bad) and Barb. Barb got shuffled into this mess due to her illness and we're seeing her step back from letting Bill call the shots. She realizes she made a mistake and now is doing her best to rectify the situation. I would call Barb the moral center of the show - as far as that can be done in her situation.

All the kids are going to turn out a little bonkers, as Ben's girlfriend realized in the last episode. Now Barb is seeing this first hand and she's realized her mistakes.

Gunde
08-07-07, 03:46 PM
The music playing when Nikki took the money - anybody know what that was?

johnnysd
08-07-07, 04:08 PM
I think I realized last night where this show is headed this year:

Barb will leave Bill, and possibly take Sarah and Ben with her. The runaway lady early in the season that specialized in saving children from polygamy, and had "escaped" hersld was viewed with contempt by Barb. But as time goes on, I think Barb is finding it harder and harder to live the "principle" and at season's end will leave. Possibly for good. And might enlist her help. Oh, and Lois will be very rich at the end of the season as well I think

BDB
08-07-07, 04:43 PM
The music playing when Nikki took the money - anybody know what that was?


Not sure..

I'd guess
this though from HBO, as the other 2 options from the episode are Bowie's Changes, and a KC And the Sunshine Band track.

Song: Iron Swan
Artist: The Sword

http://www.hbo.com/biglove/music/episode21.html

J.J.A. Sabadoz
08-07-07, 05:34 PM
. I also loved the look on Lois's face when she was looking at sara's boyfriends thigh.
.

I don't think she was staring at his thigh.

J.J.A. Sabadoz
08-07-07, 05:38 PM
I can't decide who was more stupid, Albie, for pulling the prophet / hat thing, or the people at Juniper Creek for believing in that stunt.

I've been reading up on mormonism a little lately. This is from wiki:
" Beginning in the early 1820s, Joseph Smith was paid to act as a "seer" in (mostly unsuccessful) attempts to locate lost items and find precious metals hidden in the earth.[4] Smith's procedure was to place the stone in a white stovepipe hat, put his face over the hat to block the light, and then "see" the necessary information in the stone's reflections.[5] His favored stone, chocolate-colored and about the size of an egg,[6] was found in a deep well he helped dig for one of his neighbors"

I'm pretty sure that's what Albie was doing, except with his father's cowboy hat.

Coral
08-07-07, 08:04 PM
Bill is definitely a "bad guy" in my mind. He's exceptionally greedy.

I agree. He's showing more and more how greedy and power hungry he can be. It seems that he's deceived every other character on the show over something. He comes across as the most selfish character and he looks worse when he always hides his selfishness behind other BS reasons.

wergo
08-07-07, 08:58 PM
This season has really pushed the show from the very good that it was in s1 to incredibly great. Like, 'Six Feet Under' or 'Battlestar Galactica'-level great.

I'm loathing Bill more than any other character on TV, and that includes 'Deadwod' and 'The Sopranos.' And that's a good thing. Plus, Nickie is just fun-on-a-stick. That girl NEEDS to have an action figure.

plus:
http://boards.hbo.com/forum.jspa?forumID=700000143

aktick
08-07-07, 09:08 PM
It's weird how you guys seem so anti-Bill, while here I am thinking he's the only truly good/non-fucked-up person on the show. I think he's all about protecting and making his family better off, even though it ain't easy going...I admire that in the "real world," and this show seems very real to me.

I think that's just another part of what makes this show so good - it's not like "Lost" or "Deadwood" where there's a pretty clear good and bad.

wergo
08-07-07, 09:46 PM
It's weird how you guys seem so anti-Bill, while here I am thinking he's the only truly good/non-fucked-up person on the show.

I find him incredibly selfish, childish, misogynistic, corrupt and hypocritical. And what makes him REALLY dangerous is that he thinks he's a good guy! He'll do anything (short of spending time with, or listening to, his kids) to "protect his family." And he feels justified in that.

This guy had his boat set on fire on his own property and STILL didn't feel the need to warn his family that he was setting one dangerous cult against another, and that all their lives may be in danger. He tells his son to talk to him, and then barks orders about how sex is a natural and healthy thing, but that acting on it is the most unholy thing you can do to your body. He brags about letting his wives think that they have a say in what happens in their lives and he believes he's taking the moral high ground when he tells his uncle that he's keeping ALL the profits from the gambling business he's buying with money stolen from a not-dead-yet woman. He controls his wives through financial insecurity and playing them against each other sexually. And he's proud of himself for it.

He's a mini-Roman in training, and he feels just as much in the right on any of his actions as Roman does. He's arrogant and ignorant and manipulative and naive. That equals dangerous.

Bill is Hubris personified.

slop101
08-07-07, 10:36 PM
I agree with wergo about Bill, but Paxton makes him so likable with just his natural demeanor that it can be hard to see all of his character's flaws.

Ginwen
08-07-07, 10:39 PM
It's funny how Bill is just about the only person on this show who is always making the best decisions for his family, but is also the most chastised for the decisions he makes. Kind of like the "real" world - decision makers get bitched at whether they make the right or wrong decision.
Totally disagree, I think he's making bad decisions for bad reasons. The smart thing for him would be to stay the hell away from Juniper Creek and Hollis Green et al. When she said that about gambling leading to guns and gangsters, that is exactly what happened.

dvd182
08-07-07, 11:03 PM
It's weird how you guys seem so anti-Bill, while here I am thinking he's the only truly good/non-fucked-up person on the show. I think he's all about protecting and making his family better off, even though it ain't easy going...I admire that in the "real world," and this show seems very real to me.

I think that's just another part of what makes this show so good - it's not like "Lost" or "Deadwood" where there's a pretty clear good and bad.

I tend to agree with this.

Where some characters on shows (Tony Soprano) will claim that everything they do is for their family, I think Bill actually follows through and believes this. Nothing he has really done has been for his own direct personal gain, he's always legitimately in the mindset that it is for his family.

When he helped cover up the Albie poisoning, it was to save his family from retaliation. He's getting Weber gaming in case people find out his (and Don's) family are polygamist and sales tank. He's not getting it so he can buy a new pool or personal items.

As for immoral he might be, I think we have to put that in context a little bit. So far, he has looked the most horrified when he's found out his son might have tainted his "temple," rather than when he nearly got branded by thugs. As for the misogynistic comment, look at how he treated Ana. She tried to jump him multiple times but he remained respectful and a gentleman.

Sure, he makes bad decisions, but I wouldn't out and out stamp him as immoral.

The smart thing for him would be to stay the hell away from Juniper Creek and Hollis Green et al.
I believe this is what he was doing until they came after him for the profits from his second store. Everything he is doing is trying to set the situation up so he can be distanced from them.

Giantrobo
08-08-07, 05:30 AM
Yeah but as wergo pointed out anyone can see where Bill is fast becoming a "Roman" even with all his "good intentions". I'm sure Roman thinks he's "good" too, but clearly both of these men are severely flawed.

Iron Chef
08-08-07, 09:00 AM
I agree with wergo's assessment of Bill. He's basically Roman, but in a friendly, suburban package.

boredsilly
08-08-07, 09:07 AM
Yeah but as wergo pointed out anyone can see where Bill is fast becoming a "Roman" even with all his "good intentions". I'm sure Roman thinks he's "good" too, but clearly both of these men are severely flawed.

Didn't think about it that way, but now that you mention it I totally agree with this. Bill seems to be going down a slippery slope. In season one, I found all of his dealings pretty justifiable, but the second he started fooling with the Greens he crossed a line. He really put his family in jeopardy dealing with them. And weirdly by being so concerned with "providing" for his family, he isn't really shown as being there for his family. His oldest children are going through some serious shit (crisisisisis of faith and such), but Bill hasn't really been their for either in any real way.

I kind of hate Bill, but a lot of that is Paxton's dry ass acting. If Bill was played by say Dennis Quaid, Bill Pullman, or anyone more likeable I would probably feel differently. I did feel bad for him when the wives ganged up on him about not getting a night off though.

This show is amazing. It's one of the best shows on tv, and certainly the best show on tv now. I feel like the last two episodes were season finales, so I was really surprised to see that there are more episodes coming! This show never lets up the pace once the story starts rolling.

dvd182
08-08-07, 09:21 AM
I feel like the last two episodes were season finales, so I was really surprised to see that there are more episodes coming! This show never lets up the pace once the story starts rolling.

I agree, there has really been something of a tone shift for the last few, ever since they went from the picnic style previews to the dark clouded ones. This show is really at it's best when it mixes the light family stuff with with the semi-creepy stuff (like anything with Albie).

Also, how great was the "I bet he doesn't know that you're a SPANKER!" line from Ben to Margene in this one.

JimmySRU
08-08-07, 09:34 AM
here is the way i see it ending

Barb taking the kids and leaving
Margene having a tough time being so attractive and young and having 3 kids cant deal with nicki being the first wife so she splits
Bill and Nicki move to the compound and Bill becomes the prophet

MrX
08-08-07, 05:49 PM
It worked for Joseph Smith so why not? :lol:
He found the stones and golden plates
Dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb
Even though nobody else ever saw them
Dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb

Giantrobo
08-08-07, 06:59 PM
...And weirdly by being so concerned with "providing" for his family, he isn't really shown as being there for his family. His oldest children are going through some serious shit (crisisisisis of faith and such), but Bill hasn't really been their for either in any real way.


Yeah, that seems to be a theme in this show as far as teh men as concerend. Kid comes to Dad, Dad kinda blows kid off or makes the conversation about what they want and not what the kid needs.


I kind of hate Bill, but a lot of that is Paxton's dry ass acting. If Bill was played by say Dennis Quaid, Bill Pullman, or anyone more likeable I would probably feel differently. I did feel bad for him when the wives ganged up on him about not getting a night off though.


I like Paxton, but I've also said since last season that the wives are the real strength, conscience, spirit, and backbone of the show. Bill and his bullshit with Roman is interesting and it gives us that, "oh my gawd! and "Uh Oooh" factor, but the women are the bread and butter of Big Love. Bill is just Rooster in the Hen House. :lol:

aktick
08-08-07, 07:11 PM
What was that song Roman was singing? :lol:

Giantrobo
08-08-07, 08:12 PM
"..and a shout out to Squeaky Frohm".

rotflrotflrotfl

Damn I LOVE this show!

Coral
08-08-07, 09:11 PM
"..and a shout out to Squeaky Frohm".

rotflrotflrotfl

Haha... I forgot about that line... I had a good laugh over it.

wergo
08-08-07, 10:42 PM
By this time next season:

Ben will be up on a clock tower with a high-power automatic rifle picking off passers-by.
Sarah will have moved as far away as possible from her family and will conveniently keep forgetting to return calls.
Nicki will have embraced Scientology.
Bill will have moved back on the compound "temporarily" to help his mother and brother and clean up the mess Alby made.
Barb will be left alone to raise all the kids and take care of all the houses.
Margene will be a local celebrity after selling her story to a local news station and appearing on a few low-rated talk shows.
Rhonda will be making an attempt to be the next Jessica Simpson clone, with Roman acting as her Daddy Simpson, only in a somewhat less creepy fashion.

Giantrobo
08-08-07, 10:59 PM
Yeah Ben is really getting on my nerves with his bullshit.

phantom_azazel
08-09-07, 12:54 AM
hes missing getting laid

Giantrobo
08-09-07, 01:44 AM
hes missing getting laid

I don't know, that whole, "protect the family(Margene)" thing started last season before he was gettin' laid.

creekdipper
08-09-07, 07:42 AM
It's funny how Bill is just about the only person on this show who is always making the best decisions for his family, but is also the most chastised for the decisions he makes. Kind of like the "real" world - decision makers get bitched at whether they make the right or wrong decision.

Just call Bill "The Decider".

Interesting that some like Bill Paxton's acting ("natural") while others hate it ("dry-ass"). My wife & I are in the former camp but understand where the opposite view comes from. We have a nephew who refuses to watch BL because he can't stand Paxton, saying that 'he can't act'. Guess it goes to show how reactions can be so different to the same style.

Not related to the topic of Bill, but we love Hollis Green's telephone demeanor, especially how he signs off as if he's dictating a telegram or letter ("Full Stop", Sincerely yours, Hollis Green, etc. etc.").

But what's up with Selma????

Iron Chef
08-09-07, 08:58 AM
brother Selma?


what's up with that big Moe looking guy?

rfduncan
08-09-07, 09:16 AM
brother Selma?


what's up with that big Moe looking guy?
Forget that... what's up with Alby's hair? Looks like Eraserhead with more stiffening product! (Or Otho at the end of Beetlejuice)

It worked for Joseph Smith so why not? :lol:
You know I was like "Are these people really buying this and then I remembered the antics of Joseph Smith and figured they would. -ohbfrank-

Lokimok
08-09-07, 05:31 PM
Interesting that some like Bill Paxton's acting ("natural") while others hate it ("dry-ass"). My wife & I are in the former camp but understand where the opposite view comes from. We have a nephew who refuses to watch BL because he can't stand Paxton, saying that 'he can't act'.

Yeah, I always kind of hated Paxton & nearly avoided the show because of him (when you first hear about the show, "it's Bill Paxton - with 3 wives!," you do almost throw up in your mouth a little bit), but I think he's great in this. It's the first time I've ever liked him. I agree with robo that the wives are the heart of the show, but Paxton is holding his own & I love how easily the show can slide into almost Lynch territory with Alby or the Greens. I haven't looked him up, but I keep wondering if I should recognize the guy playing Hollis Green. He has such a strong, strange presence. Best show on tv.

creekdipper
08-10-07, 05:31 PM
Yeah, I always kind of hated Paxton & nearly avoided the show because of him (when you first hear about the show, "it's Bill Paxton - with 3 wives!," you do almost throw up in your mouth a little bit), but I think he's great in this. It's the first time I've ever liked him. I agree with robo that the wives are the heart of the show, but Paxton is holding his own & I love how easily the show can slide into almost Lynch territory with Alby or the Greens. I haven't looked him up, but I keep wondering if I should recognize the guy playing Hollis Green. He has such a strong, strange presence. Best show on tv.

Hollis Green is played by Luke Askew, a fine character actor. We first noticed him years ago in a fantastic performance in the great but underrated western "The Culpepper Cattle Company", which I highly recommend. This started him on a string of appearances in westerns including "The Great Northfield Minnesota Raid" & "Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid". He plays one of the leads in TCCC and has one of the best lines (when Gary Grimes's naive character asks the name of his horse, Askew replies, "You don't give a name to something you might have to eat, kid."). Askew's character is memorable & has a quiet strength & nobility (of all the hardened gunmen among the drovers, he is the one who tends to look out for the kid without seeming sentimental or overly-protective).

I googled Askew's filmography & was surprised to see the many television & film performances he has put in, so you may recognize him from one of those.

I was also surprised to see that he had a small part in "Frailty" in 2001...which starred none other than (drum roll) Bill Paxton. If you haven't seen it, it's a neat little suspense/horror/psychological/supernatural (kinda hard to categorize) flick in which Paxton thinks he has been charged with destroying demons who live among us. It's also sort of a family drama in a twisted way. Highly recommended, even for Paxton-loathers.

Giantrobo
08-11-07, 12:24 AM
"Frailty" was awesome! I don't remember Askew, but the connection to Paxton is interesting.

My favorite Big Love connection is that Paxton and Stanton have both been in ALIEN films.

Coral
08-11-07, 11:24 AM
Ya, I wasn't a big Paxton fan either but I have no problem with him on Big Love.

I also thought he was decent in "A Simple Plan".

creekdipper
08-11-07, 07:03 PM
I think Paxton detractors (such as my nephew, who hated him in TWISTER) expect more "star" charisma or intensity or something. That doesn't seem to be Paxton's forte, which seems to be the 'everyman' type of character such as Bill in Big Love. He also excels in supporting roles in big films such as Apollo 13 & Tombstone, where he gives strong support to higher-powered performances by the likes of Tom Hanks, Ed Harris, Kurt Russell, Val Kilmer, etc. His authentic southern accent maybe puts some people off, too...I thought he and Billy Bob Thornton would forever be typecast as hicks from the sticks (but I was wrong).

In addition to "Frailty" & "A Simple Plan", these films from Paxton's rich career are recommended:

"Near Dark" (if you think he can't act, watch his mean turn as part of the van-traveling vampire clan). One of the all-time best vampire films & highly rewatchable.

"Trespass". Taut, lean little thriller featuring firefighter Pax & his buddy on a quest to recover hidden loot from an abandoned building...which brings them up against vicious thugs including Ice-T & Ice Cube. Kick butt soundtrack by Ry Cooder.

"One False Move". Great little action drama in which Pax plays the memorable Dale 'Hurricane' Dixon. Billy Bob has a wicked role in this one, too...and he's still talking in that great Arkansas accent at this point in his career. This one can be found in the $5 bargain bin at Wal-Mart along with Frailty.

Come to think of it, Paxton & Billy Bob have been in several films together (Tombstone, A Simple Plan, One False Move). Somebody must like their accents.


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