fmian

I can get one for a good price at work with a 120GB Digital Set Top Box and high end component > vga cable. I want to mainly use it for watching dvd's and sometimes to hook a laptop into. I'll be using it in a small environment with a back to front wall distance of about 15 feet. Is that too close for viewing projectors?

Here are the specs from cnet:

Imaging technology DLP

Maximum Resolution 800x600

Brightness 2000 ANSI-Lumens

Contrast ratio 2000:1

Noise level 36dB (Normal Mode); 33dB (Economy Mode)

Interfaces Video (Composite x 1, S-Video x 1), RGB (D-sub 15 x 1), Audio (mini stereo x 1) RGB 5m Component

Ceiling mount Yes

Lamp power 200W/180W

Lamp life 10000 hours

Lamp type TLPLV6

User-replaceable lamp Yes

Slayer2005

Lamp Life 10,000 hours? lol.It's funny that I've seen the same projector list at 3000 hours. lol.

I wouldn't put too much stock into the 2000:1 contrast ratio either. Most business projectors exaggerate their contrast specs.

BTW, what exactly is your "good price"?

The toshiba sounds like a typical business projector and it's only SVGA resolution at that, so I hope you're price is incredible. Unless it costs $150-$300 (max) with a new or very low hour lamp don't bother with it, especially since it's not even an XGA (1024x768p) 4:3 DLP.

You'd be better off with an InFocus X1 if you want something cheap. It at least has the faroudja chip onboard. However, the 4805 can be had as low as $500 if you get lucky and it is designed and optimized for home theater with a true 2000+:1 contrast ratio.

fmian

My price is about 25% off RRP for a new unit. I'm in Australia so our prices are gonna be slightly skewed to US prices. Not just by the exchange rate, but because we generally get ripped off on technology here.
The cheapest projector I've seen here has been AU$1099 for the BENQ PB6100. Not that I check prices all that much. This Toshiba is AU$1999 RRP with the set top box recorder, which you can't find cheaper than AU$600 around here.

If you're suggesting something else right off the bat then I'll do more research and hold off a bit. No need to rush. Thanks.

Slayer2005

You should look into getting an Infocus 4805 or a Sharp XR-10 if they're priced ok where you live.

The InFocus 4805 is a native 16:9 DLP specifically designed and optimized (calibrated to D65) with 854x480p resolution w/DarkChip2 (for improved black levels), plus a built in faroudja chip (found in highend progressive scan dvd players) and it can be found for $500-$700 US here. Not sure how much AU$ that is though or how much more it will be over there.

The Sharp XR-10 is an native 4:3 XGA (1024x768p resolution at 4:3 and 1024x576p in 16:9 mode) DLP projector. This one is a multipurpose projector (home theater or business). It's not specifically designed for home theater, but can be used as one. One way you can tell that a unit is not designed specifically for home theater is by the extremely high number of lumens. So, the projector will deliver a very sharp, bright and detailed HD image, but the 4805 will have slightly better contrast, black levels and color saturation/color accuracy (these two may be the 4805's biggest advatage).

The XR-10 can be found for $800-$1000 US.

The XR-10 is brighter which means it can handle larger screen sizes (can easily handle over 10ft in width) or a bit more ambient light. In the dark with DVDs the 4805 will deliver the best and most accurate picture, unless you sit too close (you'll need to sit at about 2x the width of the screen with the 4805). For HD, internet surfing, sitting close or ambient light viewing the XR-10 would be better.

Basically, you should either get a home theater optimized unit or at least an XGA resolution DLP if you'll be going with a 4:3 unit. So, check and see how much those are going for in Australia. Heck, I'm curious as well now after seeing the price for that 4:3 800x600 projector.

fmian

I've decided to ditch the idea of getting the toshiba s8 and am thinking about the Benq MP610 instead. It has a higher resolution and I can get it for $1260 whereas the Toshiba was about $1500 (albiet with a HDD set top box - that I don't need).
Doing some searches on the InFocus 4805 shows that it retails for $2499 but I found a place online selling it for $1899. With an almost $600 difference I might pass on the infocus since I can't get them supplied through work, therefore I wouldn't be able to get cheap extra warranty or replacement lamps for it. There don't seem to be many people selling infocus stuff in Australia.
A friend is letting me borrow his Benq MP610 for a few days, so I might check it out. Before I do so though, I know the Benq model is 4:3 native, but how will this effect viewing things in widescreen, cause I get the impression black bars won't be projected. Is there a discernable difference between an XGA res model versus a Wide XGA model?

Slayer2005

Wow! The 4805 retails for under a grand here and can usually be found for $500-$700. Mine cost a little over $500. I sure hope you don't truly mean that's the price in US dollars.

The Benq only has a higher resolution than the 4805 when displaying 4:3 content.

Viewing 16:9 and 2.35:1 will give you dark grey bars on the top and bottom. You'd get the same bars on a 16:9 screen when displaying a 2.35:1 image. For "black" looking bars you'd need a CRT projector.

The difference between XGA and WXGA depends on your seating distance from the screen. Good luck.

fmian

they were australian dollar prices. it's still expensive for us. do the conversion.
I'll give the mp610 a test drive in a few days. My friend insists there is no 'blank projeted light' on the top and bottom of a 16:9 image. He said there was a 16:9 mode on the unit which switched it over or something.

Slayer2005

He is 100% wrong. Digitals are not currently capable of projecting no light since they use a bright halogen bulb; some light will always escape. Even a fade to black will light up the room like a dim christmas tree (pause it on one to see). The only way to not have grey bars with widescreen content is to fill the entire 4:3 image area, which would mean stretching (vertically) or cropping a widescreen image.

If by some wild chance a person can't see the bars (which surely would only be during really bright scenes unless they are near blind or really focusing on the movie) all you have to do is put your hand infront of the lens to see a night and day difference. Your hand will cast a black shadow over the grey bars.

The grey bars aren't too bad for some PJs, except during really dark scenes. That's when they suck big time. Masking is always an option.

Ravenous

Ive been doing my research on the 4805 and Ill be damned If I can find it under $1000. Where are you guys getting them this low?

fmian

I gave the MP610 a test run at work today playing The Hulk on DVD plugged in via composite. The projector was set to 4:3 mode but the movie was being displayed in widescreen with no black bars. I got up close and tried to put my hand in a position that would block any light being projected above or below the view of the image, and light did not hot my hand, and my hand did not cast a shadow. As soon as I saw light hitting my hand I could see it blocking the part of the projected widescreen image as well. Again, the movie was in the correct aspect ratio, and was not distorted. When I set the projector to 16:9 mode the movie got squished and was being displayed wider than it should have been. Can you explain to me what's going on there?

Slayer2005

I think you're trapped in the Twilight Zone.

You need to set the dvd player to "16:9" or "Widescreen" in the options menu. It'll give give the full resolution of an anamorphic dvd and will then be the proper aspect ratio when you set the projector to 16:9 too.

About the "black" (actually grey) bars, if you couldn't see your hand cast a very obviously darker shadow above and below the image when displaying widescreen film you either:

A) Found the only digital projector in the world (regardless of price) that can do true black by keeping light from coming out.

Or

B) You weren't really displaying "widescreen", but instead a stretched or cropped 4:3 image of widescreen material that you mistook for widescreen (afterall, 4:3 is wider than it is tall, but not as much as 16:9 or 2.35:1).

Or

C) You are projecting onto a wide screen with something dark (like black masking) above and below the image where the bars would be.

The bars shouldn't be distracting or too noticeable (although if you look for them they shouldn't be hard to see) during bright scenes, but they should be pretty obvious during dark scenes (for widescreen films) and extremely obvious when you put your hand infront of the lens to cast your hand's shadow onto the grey bar (only for widescreen material). If whatever you are playing is being played filled the entire 4:3 image area there will be no light above and below the picture, unlike when it plays in widescreen

Makes your you have everything set right and report back. I assume you're using a white colored screen or wall, correct? Masking or no masking?

I'm curious to hear the results, because something isn't right if you can't notice the bars even by putting your hand infront of the lens.

fmian

I have a feeling too that the dvd player have needed to be put in widescreen mode or something, hence the confusion of seeing widescreen when the projector was set to full screen. I can't imagine there being issues with the screen and me just not seeing it, as the screen I was viewing it on was 4:3 and all white, and I had zoomed in the movie to fit the screen left to right, but it did not fill it top to bottom. I definately not mistaking 4:3 for 16:9. Ask my friends, I'm the first one to complain about something not being in the correct aspect rati or being distorted. I'll give it a test run at home later on this week so I can determine the throw distance I'll need. I'll let you know more then.

Slayer2005

BTW, are you viewing in ambient light by any chance? Because this shadow casting on the black bars probably won't work nearly as well with ambient light present since the darkest grey the projector can make is the first to wash out when there is light present. In the dark though your hand's shadow should look pitch black when placed infront of the lens where the bars would be, and the bar should appear much lighter and very grey in comparison (about 10X more grey than it seemed before the shadow was cast. ).

fmian

Here is a photo I took today when I set it up again at work. Sorry about the quality, it was taken with my mobile phone.



Now I figured that the grey light might be washed out and harder to see in in a well lit room, so I got my finger about an inch away from the projector lens, and moved it up into the projected image to see if some of that grey light would be projected onto my finger. Nothing like that happened. Then I put a box under the image where the grey light should be hoping it might be easier to see since the box was brown while the screen was white. No sign of anything. I really am gonna have to try this thing out at home for a couple of days to see how it reacts in my environment.

I was talking to our stores Optoma rep and he was saying the same thing you are, and recommended I get an Optoma model H27 which will probably cost AU$400-$500 more, but it is 16:9 native, and has the darkchip2 chip thingy in it. So I'm still undecided about which one to get.

One more thing, if I mount the projector on the ceiling say a foot more or less than what the throw distance calculators recommend, I should still be able to compensate by zooming and getting the same projection size right? I ask only because there is a light in the ceiling exactly at the point of the recommended throw distance.

Slayer2005

Yeah, the light is defnitely washing it out the darkest grey.

The Optoma H27 is a nice 480p unit. It has an iris too, I believe, so it's capable of better blacks and contrast than the 4805, which also has the DarkChip2. 16:9 native is the way to go for home theater. Infact, I actually now believe 2.35:1 native might be the way to go, but I'd need an anamorphic lens for that.

About the mounting, a foot or so should be fine unless you have the zoom at or near it's minimum setting, of course.