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Numanoid
11-17-05, 09:41 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051115/us_nm/clinton_dc_1Esquire: Clinton is world's "most influential man" Tue Nov 15, 6:29 PM ET



Former U.S. President Bill Clinton is "The Most Influential Man in the World," according to Esquire magazine.

The magazine has designated him as "the most powerful agent of change in the world" despite his lack of electoral standing and the fact he was laid low by a heart attack ahead of last year's presidential election.

The magazine highlights Clinton's accomplishments in its December issue, which goes on newsstands on Thursday, profiling the world's "Best and Brightest" men and women.

Since leaving office, Clinton has been so active that his post-presidency amounts to "a third term" for the Democrat who held the White House from 1992 to 2000, the magazine said. He has tackled global issues from AIDS, poverty and global warming to the recovery from last December's Indian Ocean tsunami.

Esquire editor David Granger argued that Clinton was poised to become "something like a president of the world or at least a president of the world's non-governmental organizations."

But it will mean giving up a leadership role in the Democratic party or pushing the political career of his wife, Sen. Hillary Clinton, seen as a 2008 White House contender.

In the article, Clinton said that he remained loyal to his party, adding: "I'm not the leader of the opposition anymore." :up:

Groucho
11-17-05, 09:46 AM
Why post this in "Politics"? I'm sure this discussion will be free of controversy and bickering.

Tommy Ceez
11-17-05, 10:15 AM
Hes the most influential man in the world?

His campaign endorsements are far from a victory guarentee...that kinda debunks the whole thing right there.

Esquire should just drop this whole bit...the most influental man in the world is the sitting president...every year

Shannon Nutt
11-17-05, 10:48 AM
I would think The Pope (regardless of who is in office) would be the world's most influential man EVERY year.

tcoursen
11-17-05, 10:51 AM
Hes the most influential man in the world?

His campaign endorsements are far from a victory guarentee...that kinda debunks the whole thing right there.

Esquire should just drop this whole bit...the most influental man in the world is the sitting president...every year

Well, Corzine ran commercials with Clinton in them in his recent run for governor of NJ and that turned out pretty well good for Corzine. According to Clinton Corzine is the MOST qualified person he has EVER met to be a governor. So there ya have it, NJ is saved.

Tommy Ceez
11-17-05, 10:56 AM
Well, Corzine ran commercials with Clinton in them in his recent run for governor of NJ and that turned out pretty well good for Corzine. According to Clinton Corzine is the MOST qualified person he has EVER met to be a governor. So there ya have it, NJ is saved.

How did Clinton work out for Fernando ferar?

tcoursen
11-17-05, 11:05 AM
How did Clinton work out for Fernando ferar?

Ferar had NO chance.

I didn't really pay attention to that race since I don't live in NYC, but I don't recall seeing any Ferar commercials or anything with Clinton in thim. Did Clinton come out and support Ferar?

Tracer Bullet
11-17-05, 11:08 AM
How did Clinton work out for Fernando ferar?

Please. FDR coming back from the grave to endorse Ferrar wouldn't have helped him.

bhk
11-17-05, 12:32 PM
Must have been a great set of kneepads embossed with the US Seal that the author got. I just hoped he wiped afterwards.

Myster X
11-17-05, 01:07 PM
Nice to see the media giving Hillary some backdoor attention for her 08 campaign. :lol:

DrRingDing
11-17-05, 01:29 PM
Why post this in "Politics"? I'm sure this discussion will be free of controversy and bickering.

:lol: rotfl :lol:

His campaign endorsements are far from a victory guarentee...that kinda debunks the whole thing right there.

name one person whose campaign endorsements <i>are</i> a victory guarantee.. ?! i don't think there's anybody in the world that influential, since the biggest influence in any election (outside of corrupt elections, of course) is electorate satisfaction IMO.

Supermallet
11-17-05, 02:43 PM
Hes the most influential man in the world?

His campaign endorsements are far from a victory guarentee...that kinda debunks the whole thing right there.

Esquire should just drop this whole bit...the most influental man in the world is the sitting president...every year

If that's so, then why did the Virginia nominee for governor that Bush supported lose?

Numanoid
11-17-05, 02:47 PM
I would think The Pope (regardless of who is in office) would be the world's most influential man EVERY year.How? He comes into office with all of the principles already in place. What does he do that influences anyone (something he does, apart from his office)? When was the last time a Pope made a decree that differed greatly from accepted Catholic values and influenced a bunch of people to go along with him?

Numanoid
11-17-05, 02:48 PM
If that's so, then why did the Virginia nominee for governor that Bush supported lose?that kinda debunks the whole thing right there

nemein
11-17-05, 02:53 PM
If that's so, then why did the Virginia nominee for governor that Bush supported lose?


Just curious what one's got to do w/ the other? I mean why follow up a silly statement w/ an even sillier statement. I agree w/ DrRingDing no one has the power to make an endorsement such that that person will automatically win.

General Zod
11-17-05, 03:38 PM
Clinton came here to California to campaign for Gray Davis not to get kicked out of office and it changed absolutely nothing. I don't think there is a "most influential man in the world". If one HAD to be picked it would certainly have to be whomever is currently president of the United States.

uberjoe
11-17-05, 03:42 PM
Just curious what one's got to do w/ the other? I mean why follow up a silly statement w/ an even sillier statement.

Because without such posts the politics forum would be empty?

Numanoid
11-17-05, 04:17 PM
Just curious what one's got to do w/ the other? I mean why follow up a silly statement w/ an even sillier statement. Are you saying that Tommy Ceez doesn't believe what he posts? :hscratch:

nemein
11-17-05, 05:10 PM
Are you saying that Tommy Ceez doesn't believe what he posts? :hscratch:

I have no way of making that judgement call either way.

Tommy Ceez
11-17-05, 05:30 PM
I just gonna let people talk about me, Im just sittin here

Supermallet
11-17-05, 05:41 PM
Just curious what one's got to do w/ the other? I mean why follow up a silly statement w/ an even sillier statement. I agree w/ DrRingDing no one has the power to make an endorsement such that that person will automatically win.

That was my point. He said that Clinton's endorsements don't guarantee a win, so therefore the most influential title is debunked. He then said that the current president is more influential. So I applied the same logic to his statement about the president. That's all. I completely agree that one's endorsement record is not a correlary to how influential they are.

Tommy Ceez
11-17-05, 07:08 PM
That was my point. He said that Clinton's endorsements don't guarantee a win, so therefore the most influential title is debunked. He then said that the current president is more influential. So I applied the same logic to his statement about the president. That's all. I completely agree that one's endorsement record is not a correlary to how influential they are.

Oh, Im sorry, I thought influential ment possessing the power to influence.

island007
11-17-05, 07:22 PM
I would say the most influential person would command the only super-power and the largest economy.
:hscratch:

Supermallet
11-17-05, 07:27 PM
Oh, Im sorry, I thought influential ment possessing the power to influence.

Yes, but your own logic defeated your argument that the current president is the most influential man.

classicman2
11-17-05, 09:37 PM
I've always believed the most influential man in the world is the man who has the greatest power. Bill Clinton does not have the greatest power.

Myster X
11-18-05, 12:40 AM
I've always believed the most influential man in the world is the man who has the greatest power. Bill Clinton does not have the greatest power.

OPEC chairman?
Maybe the media needs a reminder that Bill Clinton is no longer the president.

bhk
11-18-05, 08:52 AM
Maybe the media needs a reminder that Bill Clinton is no longer the president.

The author, along with many dems and their propaganda arm, the media, apparantly live in fantasy land.

DrRingDing
11-18-05, 10:09 AM
i think this is a fairly silly discussion to begin with because we're immediately correlating "influential" with "politics". we're not even questioning the definition of "influential"! IMO, there are more ways than one to be influential, it just depends what you're trying to accomplish.

i would also argue against automatically declaring the current US president the most "influential" simply because he commands the world's largest economy and superpower. there is a reason for the statement "balance of power". if the US president was the most powerful person, the Congress would be irrelevant (and some would argue that it almost is right now, anyway) and the Supreme Court as well.

again, it simply depends what you're trying to influence. Bush, for example, is having a lot of trouble right now influencing people.. he's suffered a lot of international setbacks - see the recent "failed" trip to latin america, for example. but he's also had quite a few setbacks within the country as well - see his failed support for the VA governor. if he were to try to drum up support for expanding the war in Iraq to include Syria, which some people are presuming he's doing, he would fail miserably. people are sick of war. that is not influence.

but, indirectly, it's true, he's responsible for a lot of things. he's going to influence the economy for years to come because he'll be responsible for putting in place the next chair of the Fed Reserve. the patriot act has also just gotten re-upped, to use a film term. these things, ultimately, do not involve his direct influence, but because he's putting them in place, he deserves some credit.

as i've said, it just depends <i>what</i> or <i>whom</i> you are trying to influence. i mean, Tom Cruise influenced a lot of people to turn off their TVs when he appeared on Oprah.

i hope this made sense. i could say a lot more, but i'd risk writing a novel.

classicman2
11-18-05, 10:28 AM
Again - if influence equals power - no question, the president of the U. S. is the most influential person.

nemein
11-18-05, 10:29 AM
i hope this made sense. i could say a lot more, but i'd risk writing a novel.

:up: Once again I have to say I agree w/ you. So either it made sense or we both have the same "problems" ;)

Supermallet
11-18-05, 10:30 AM
The author, along with many dems and their propaganda arm, the media, apparantly live in fantasy land.

Oh, the irony! rotfl

nemein
11-18-05, 10:31 AM
Again - if influence equals power - no question, the president of the U. S. is the most influential person.

Even the President's power has its limits though. Unless you are equating power w/ military might, the fact he has his hand on the "button". In that sense I'd agree w/ you. As far as overall general power to get people to do as he would like them to do I think many of the recent events show that Bush doesn't have that sort of power at this time.

classicman2
11-18-05, 10:33 AM
Even the President's power has its limits though. Unless you are equating power w/ military might, the fact he has his hand on the "button". In that sense I'd agree w/ you. As far as overall general power to get people to do as he would like them to do I think many of the recent events show that Bush doesn't have that sort of power at this time.

Quickly - name someone with more power.

Supermallet
11-18-05, 10:35 AM
Tom Cruise. I hear he's pretty high up in Scientology.

classicman2
11-18-05, 10:38 AM
Tom Cruise. I hear he's pretty high up in Scientology.


Roughly 1/hundreth of 1% of the people in the world have heard of Scientology. ;)

nemein
11-18-05, 10:39 AM
That's the point/question, what definition of "power" we are using? Is the President a powerful person, yes, it goes w/ the job regardless of who is actually in the office. Whether that person automatically is the most powerful person depends upon what type of power you are talking about. And if you want to talk about "influential" that's a completely different topic IMHO since I'm not convienced power equates to influence. They are certainly related but I'm not sure either way at this point they are equivalent.

classicman2
11-18-05, 10:40 AM
neimein,

You failed to name anyone. ;)

nemein
11-18-05, 10:58 AM
neimein,

You failed to name anyone. ;)


You failed to define what definition of power you're talking about. Militarily it is certainly the US President. If you are talking about the "power" to get people to do what that person wants done it <i>may be</i> Bush but frankly at this point I think people around the world may be more willing to cater to the whims of the new Pope or even someone like Bill Gates than George Bush. That's just my perception based on the recent events have been reported; like the Latin America trip, the US not being able to get the EU to take a harder line on Iran, etc. Maybe I'm just the victim of biased reporting ;)

DrRingDing
11-18-05, 10:58 AM
That's the point/question, what definition of "power" we are using? Is the President a powerful person, yes, it goes w/ the job regardless of who is actually in the office. Whether that person automatically is the most powerful person depends upon what type of power you are talking about. And if you want to talk about "influential" that's a completely different topic IMHO since I'm not convienced power equates to influence. They are certainly related but I'm not sure either way at this point they are equivalent.

i'd just like to expand on that idea with an example the just popped into my head:

i would say two very influential people in recent history who had little to no power are Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold. what they did certainly influenced a lot of other things and i believe one reason they did what they did was related to the fact that they didn't have much power at all. one act of desperation created a lot of influence.

for this reason, i would really hesitate to equate power with influence.
-di doctor-

island007
11-18-05, 01:17 PM
One can have power without influence, but One can't have influence without power.

Former U.S. President Bill Clinton is "The Most Influential Man in the World," according to Esquire magazine.

Translates to: Former U.S. President Bill Clinton can to the highest degree or extent exert power to sway or affect the world.

I find that to be incorrect.

The current sitting U.S. President can to the highest degree or extent exert power to sway or affect the world.

nemein
11-18-05, 01:37 PM
One can have power without influence, but One can't have influence without power.

Again how are you defining power though? I mean are we talking about pure strength/might or something else? Martin Luther King Jr was a very influential man but he really didn't have much power in the sense of directly ordering/controlling people. Heck even Martin Luther was a VERY influential man (started the whole protestant movement against the Catholic church for those that don't know) but only had the power of his conviction ("Here I stand. I can do other") and spent a portion of his life in hiding for fear of life.

island007
11-18-05, 01:53 PM
Again how are you defining power though? I mean are we talking about pure strength/might or something else?

No, Strength/might is only a type of power.

There're many types, knowledge, wealth, position, ability, religion, belief and aptitude to name a few. Different individuals will derive their power from different sources. Then even fewer individuals will have the capacity to exert their power to influence.

However, with all of that I would still argue :The current sitting U.S. President can to the highest degree or extent exert power to sway or affect the world.

nemein
11-18-05, 02:01 PM
The current sitting U.S. President can to the highest degree or extent exert power to sway or affect the world.

At this point though only due to the office itself and not due to the person sitting in it IMHO.

island007
11-18-05, 02:16 PM
At this point though only due to the office itself and not due to the person sitting in it IMHO.


I agree. :thumbsup:


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