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bhk
10-25-05, 11:44 AM
http://frontpagemagazine.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=19960


By Juanita Broaddrick and Kathleen Willey
FrontPageMagazine.com | October 25, 2005


Like far too many women in this country, all three of us have experienced the crime of sexual assault and the violation of sexual harassment by men in powerful positions. Each of us has battled with the shame, humiliation, and fear of coming forward to report the assault. Each of us has worried about how this sexual harassment and assault will affect our careers. Two of us, however, suffered this kind of experience at the hands of a United States president.

That president has never apologized for his vicious behavior. That president and his wife orchestrated frightening, retaliatory intimidation tactics against us for daring to tell the truth about the assaults against us. That president and his wife are held in high esteem by world leaders and much of the American public. And that presidentís wife now seeks to become president herself. Because of this, Bill and Hillary Clinton continue to teach important lessons to victims and perpetrators of violence against women in this country.



Bill and Hillary Clinton are teaching rape and sexual harassment victims that if your assailant is popular and politically powerful, you will be punished more for daring to report the assault than for keeping silent. They are teaching perpetrators of violence against women that as long as you are pro-abortion enough to have the political support of the National Organization for Women, any crimes you commit against women in your ďpersonal lifeĒ will be overlooked.



When we announced that we are touring the Clinton Library in Little Rock, Arkansas, this Wednesday, we were asked by friends, family, the press, and the public: Why do you keep dragging this issue up? Why canít you just let it go? The Clinton Library is a multi-million dollar monument to the legacy of our forty-second president, but part of that legacy is being erased. Part of the true Clinton legacy is the cruel abuse that he and his inner circle committed against us. If we let it go, what does that say to the thousands of women victimized by sexual harassment and assault? Unless we have the courage to ask the American people to hold the Clintons accountable for their abuses against us, we are part of the problem rather than part of the solution. The problem of abuse against women is far too serious for us to sit quietly by while Bill and Hillary Clinton whitewash their reputations and escape all consequences for their actions.



Harassment and assault must be denounced no matter the status of victim or perpetrator. But harassment and assault committed by our leaders must be censored even more vigorously because these luminaries set the standards for acceptable behavior in our society. Bill Clintonís sexual assaults against us, and Hillary Clintonís active participation in persuading America that those assaults donít matter, represent a breach of the trust we should place in our leaders. This is not a political vendetta on our part. The two of us assaulted by Bill Clinton were political supporters of the Clintons until Bill Clinton attacked us. This is about the truth, and the sad truth is that the Clintons have exhibited such callous treatment of women that they do not deserve our respect or our votes. Whether or not you agree with the Clintonsí political positions, there are certainly politicians out there who hold similar positions but who actually treat women with dignity and respect. Itís time for us to take abuse against women seriously, and that requires that we demand proper treatment of women from those in positions of power.



Our stories are on record, in painful detail. The Clintons have never even bothered to present any reasons why you should believe their denials and evasions regarding our accusations. They prefer to hope that we will let it go, and that all of us will move on and forget about their despicable behavior. We will not let it go. For the sake of women everywhere whose lives are torn apart after being assaulted by powerful men, we will continue to press the Clintons to face up to the damage they have caused.

General Zod
10-25-05, 12:09 PM
I don't think i'd tour a museum in honor of someone who raped me. That's just me.

bhk
10-25-05, 12:36 PM
Maybe they are going to write a book.

They should be thanked again and again however for politically emasculating the liberal feminist movement in this country.

wendersfan
10-25-05, 12:46 PM
They should be thanked again and again however for politically emasculating the liberal feminist movement in this country.If the liberal feminist movement hadn't shown itself to be so duplicitous due to their monomaniacal focus on abortion rights above all other issues then they wouldn't have been so deserving of that political emasculation.

CRM114
10-25-05, 12:50 PM
If the liberal feminist movement hadn't shown itself to be so duplicitous due to their monomaniacal focus on abortion rights above all other issues then they wouldn't have been so deserving of that political emasculation.

You don't believe abortion is one of the (if not THE) most important feminist issue?

mosquitobite
10-25-05, 12:52 PM
You don't believe abortion is one of the (if not THE) most important feminist issue?

Nope.

wendersfan
10-25-05, 12:59 PM
You don't believe abortion is one of the (if not THE) most important feminist issue?Go back and re-read what I wrote. I absolutely believe it to be their core issue, to the exclusion of all others.

classicman2
10-25-05, 01:01 PM
Neither do I.

I believe that to the radical feminist element it may be. But I believe that feminists are more interested in equal pay and economic stuff. BTW: I'm not talking about NOW. I don't think that organization is representative of feminists.

CRM114
10-25-05, 01:01 PM
Nope.

Choice over your own circumstances is vital to true equality. Men have no such concerns.

CRM114
10-25-05, 01:01 PM
Go back and re-read what I wrote. I absolutely believe it to be their core issue, to the exclusion of all others.

Because everything stems from it, I suppose. But I get your point.

mosquitobite
10-25-05, 01:04 PM
Choice over your own circumstances is vital to true equality. Men have no such concerns.

Hogwash!* copyright classicman2

Choice can also begin before nakedness. ;) Both have the CHOICE to not sleep together unprotected.

I'm for equality with men - which as I've said before goes both ways. I don't want to be ABOVE men. (Which is what CHOICE as defined right now means). A man has no say in the abortion or in the woman's choice to go ahead. If she goes ahead he is duty bound for 18 years to support her. It's all in her power, which puts her above the man.

nemein
10-25-05, 01:04 PM
You don't believe abortion is one of the (if not THE) most important feminist issue?


To some of them yes. Given how devisive of an issue it is though it occupies an unproportional part of the overall "effort" IMHO. I believe you'll find more unity overall for things like job/pay equality.

wendersfan
10-25-05, 01:06 PM
My wife used to subscribe to <i>Ms</i> magazine. Nearly every issue had a cover story on how Republicans were going to take away abortion rights, repeal <i>Roe v Wade</i>, etc. It's the core issue, at least in terms of selling magazines and getting people to contribute money to political campaigns and PACs.

kvrdave
10-25-05, 02:26 PM
Neither do I.

I believe that to the radical feminist element it may be. But I believe that feminists are more interested in equal pay and economic stuff. BTW: I'm not talking about NOW. I don't think that organization is representative of feminists.

As a feminist, you are wrong. NOW is the feminist movement in popular culture.

When was the last time you heard any feminist come to the aid of a conservative woman?

I became a feminist because of what I thought it meant to be one. It isn't that at all. It isn't about equal rights.

wendersfan
10-25-05, 02:41 PM
As a feminist, you are wrong. NOW is the feminist movement in popular culture.

When was the last time you heard any feminist come to the aid of a conservative woman?

I became a feminist because of what I thought it meant to be one. It isn't that at all. It isn't about equal rights.Preach it, sister!

:D

Jason
10-25-05, 04:22 PM
Maybe they are going to write a book.

I'm sure the guys who made up the Swiftie's book can help them.

kvrdave
10-25-05, 04:50 PM
Preach it, sister!

:D

<img src=http://www.feministcampus.org/images/egreeting/rosie_the_riveter.jpg>

Jadzia
10-25-05, 05:12 PM
To some of them yes. Given how devisive of an issue it is though it occupies an unproportional part of the overall "effort" IMHO. I believe you'll find more unity overall for things like job/pay equality. It's kind of hard to be equal in the workplace if you are forced to carry a pregnancy to term.

I think the right to control what grows in your womb trumps how much money you might make. If the governemnt can tell you what you must do with your insides then what rights do you have at all?

Until the law can also force any man that impregnates a woman to give up his job, his schooling, his aspirations then I don't see how women can be equal with illegal abortion.

Chaos
10-25-05, 05:20 PM
barring the rape and health of the woman issue, alot can be said for simply saying "no" before the clothes come off. . . but of course that would entail restraint.

bhk
10-25-05, 05:59 PM
I'm sure the guys who made up the Swiftie's book can help them.

You mean the one which caused Frenchie to ahem "revise" his diary?

bhk
10-25-05, 06:01 PM
It's kind of hard to be equal in the workplace if you are forced to carry a pregnancy to term.

Are you saying that women can't help spreading their legs?

kvrdave
10-25-05, 06:42 PM
It's kind of hard to be equal in the workplace if you are forced to carry a pregnancy to term.

I think the right to control what grows in your womb trumps how much money you might make. If the governemnt can tell you what you must do with your insides then what rights do you have at all?

Until the law can also force any man that impregnates a woman to give up his job, his schooling, his aspirations then I don't see how women can be equal with illegal abortion.


2 things I want to say in a nonconfronting manner....

1) If the government can tell you what you must do with your insides, the next thing you will know, some drugs will be illegal.

2) Until men have the right to say that they don't want the pregnancy and can be absolved from child support, you will never have equal rights.

Jadzia
10-25-05, 07:10 PM
barring the rape and health of the woman issue, alot can be said for simply saying "no" before the clothes come off. . . but of course that would entail restraint. And what about men? Do they not have restraint? Or is just women that are expected by society to be chaste?

Are you saying that women can't help spreading their legs? Can men help it?

It's funny how people will insist that abortion should not be important to feminists and then read the sexist comments that come from those who oppose abortion. :lol:

Jadzia
10-25-05, 07:19 PM
2) Until men have the right to say that they don't want the pregnancy and can be absolved from child support, you will never have equal rights. See the quotes above about just saying using restaint. ;)

But seriously, do you really think carrying a pregnancy to term, childbirth, and raising an infant is the equivalent of writing a check every month? If that was the case, I would have started my family a long time ago. :lol:

My son is 14 months old and he is the center of my world, he has been since I was pregnant with him. Everything in my life is now for him. It is hard but worth it because I want to be a good mother to him. I cannot imagine asking an unwilling person to make the kind of sacrifices necessary to bring a child into the world.

kvrdave
10-25-05, 07:23 PM
See the quotes above about just saying using restaint. ;)

But seriously, do you really think carrying a pregnancy to term, childbirth, and raising an infant is the equivalent of writing a check every month? If that was the case, I would have started my family a long time ago. :lol:

My son is 14 months old and he is the center of my world, he has been since I was pregnant with him. Everything in my life is now for him. It is hard but worth it because I want to be a good mother to him. I cannot imagine asking an unwilling person to make the kind of sacrifices necessary to bring a child into the world.

The law sees money as compensation for things that you can't put a price on.

All I am saying is that if you want to be for equality, it hardly stands to also say that the father should not have an equal say (or any). If you want independance and equality, the decision to carry a baby to term should rest on the woman financially if the father does not accept that decision.

Otherwise, you are really wanting "equality" when it is convenient, but still want laws to protect you from "the man," so to speak.

And as much as you can't see putting that burden on an unwilling woman, you seem to be able to put it on the man financially. That's not equality.

bhk
10-25-05, 07:29 PM
Can men help it?

It's funny how people will insist that abortion should not be important to feminists and then read the sexist comments that come from those who oppose abortion.
Well, your posts indicate that somehow, magically, women become pregnant without any choice(pun intended). Shouldn't the one who is going to be more affected by the consequences be the one that should decide to keep their legs closed?

And what about men? Do they not have restraint? Or is just women that are expected by society to be chaste?

:lol:
It's not fair, it's not fair, it's not fair wah... wah....

Jadzia
10-25-05, 07:41 PM
Ok, let me get this straight...women should never have sex (you do know this means guys would never get laid, right?)...but if they do have sex and should an unplanned pregnancy occur, you don't want to pay for child support...so the woman should have an abortion so you don't pay child support... except women shouldn't have the right to abortion?

And men say women are hard to understand? :lol:

CRM114
10-25-05, 07:51 PM
And men say women are hard to understand? :lol:

No, it's only the pro-life men that are hard to understand. ;)

kvrdave
10-25-05, 09:46 PM
Ok, let me get this straight...women should never have sex (you do know this means guys would never get laid, right?)...but if they do have sex and should an unplanned pregnancy occur, you don't want to pay for child support...so the woman should have an abortion so you don't pay child support... except women shouldn't have the right to abortion?

And men say women are hard to understand? :lol:

Nooooo, you are talking about equality. Yet in this situation, the man has no say, and has financial responsibility. One of those keeps it from being equal. Either the man has an equal say in whether or not the child is brought to term, or he should not be held financially liable for a child he has not decision in bringing to term. The woman always would have the right to abort or not, but at least the man would have some say in it as well.

Women should quit having babies for a paycheck. -wink-

Rockmjd23
10-25-05, 11:52 PM
Women should quit having babies for a paycheck. -wink-
:up:

Bacon
10-25-05, 11:55 PM
Women should quit having babies for a paycheck. -wink-
Aren't babies just a side affect of what women do to earn their pay?

*runs for cover* :D

Rockmjd23
10-25-05, 11:56 PM
No, it's only the pro-life men that are hard to understand. ;)
Most pro-life people that I know, myself included, don't want an innocent human life to end because it's inconvenient to those who created it. If that's hard to understand, my apologies. :shrug:

kvrdave
10-26-05, 12:17 AM
What most people don't know is that the original Feminists were against abortion. At the time abortion was generally pressured by the man who knocked up the factory worker, etc. From my classes, it was one of the bigger issues that united women originally. There's something you won't hear at a NOW rally. :lol:

My "Women In The Workplace" prof. was asked if that meant that they were really just for reproductive rights. She said that it wasn't and they were actually against it. Found that to be an odd revelation. The prof was pro-choice, but still when you get the truth that is opposite the beliefs of a professor, it is amazing.

My wife was pro-choice until she gave birth, actually.

Th0r S1mpson
10-26-05, 12:23 AM
Man, you'd think people were trying to take away a woman's right to vote! The issue isn't about the woman, it's about the child.

Single parents may not feel "equal" in the workplace either with kids to take care of... that doesn't mean we let them put their kids to sleep in order to climb the corporate ladder and live the "American Dream."

Personal responsibility, people! I realize adoption isn't seen as some glowing light of an alternative, but tell that to the parents of adopted children. I know life can be hard, but that doesn't justify any death.

It's for this reason that I know as many women who are pro-life as I do men.

Oh, and I hear Clinton has a library or something.

Rockmjd23
10-26-05, 12:25 AM
It's an issue that will never have a resolution. One side sees human life being killed, the other side doesn't see it as human life.

Th0r S1mpson
10-26-05, 12:31 AM
It's an issue that will never have a resolution. One side sees human life being killed, the other side doesn't see it as human life.
Sounds like the Nazis.

Just thought I'd take us full-circle. :D

mosquitobite
10-26-05, 06:20 AM
See the quotes above about just saying using restaint. ;)

But seriously, do you really think carrying a pregnancy to term, childbirth, and raising an infant is the equivalent of writing a check every month? If that was the case, I would have started my family a long time ago. :lol:

My son is 14 months old and he is the center of my world, he has been since I was pregnant with him. Everything in my life is now for him. It is hard but worth it because I want to be a good mother to him. I cannot imagine asking an unwilling person to make the kind of sacrifices necessary to bring a child into the world.

Jadzia, are you divorced?

Can you imagine taking your son away from his father?

Because the current argument in abortion is what leads the family courts to the decision to grant mothers sole custody in probably 80%+ of cases without even considering that men are parents too.

When you say that a woman has reproductive rights over her body, she's saying she "owns" that block of cells inside her. Well, that carries over even after the child is born.

I don't agree with that. It takes 2. Always has. Always will (well sorta :lol: )

And I know history too. I know in the old days of divorce men were granted rights to the children because they were their "property". Well now we have the exact opposite in reverse. There's nothing equal about it.
:shrug:

classicman2
10-26-05, 06:22 AM
I thought that 'it's the woman's body' argument was passe'.

Apparently it's not.

X
10-26-05, 10:27 AM
Back to the original subject...

I heard Broaddrick and Willey interviewed today as they were waiting for the library to open. Sounds like it's going to be very interesting. Evidently their trip is being overshadowed in the Little Rock media by the Easter Seals people who will be there today as well.

Jadzia
10-26-05, 11:57 AM
Jadzia, are you divorced?

Can you imagine taking your son away from his father?

Because the current argument in abortion is what leads the family courts to the decision to grant mothers sole custody in probably 80%+ of cases without even considering that men are parents too.

When you say that a woman has reproductive rights over her body, she's saying she "owns" that block of cells inside her. Well, that carries over even after the child is born.

I don't agree with that. It takes 2. Always has. Always will (well sorta :lol: )

And I know history too. I know in the old days of divorce men were granted rights to the children because they were their "property". Well now we have the exact opposite in reverse. There's nothing equal about it.
:shrug: Nope, not divorced, happily married here. I can't imagine taking my son from his father, but if god forbid we were to get divorced I would think I would deserve custody as I am nursing and it is wrong to take a young child from his mother. When the child is older, it should be looked at on a case by case basis but a baby needs his mother, case closed. My husband is very close to our son and they have a bond, but my son has needs right now that in many ways can only be met by me. It's not about "my" rights, it's about my child's rights. Same with child support. That is not paid for the woman to live off, it is for the child, once that child is born into the world.

There is no real equality when it come to women and men and children; biology dictates that. It is what makes us different and it is a fact of life that women bear the babies and nurse them when they are small.

My whole opinion though, is knowing what a huge commitment and undertaking that is, that a woman in the early months of pregnancy be given a limited version of the same rights that men have: to walk away. The woman still bears the brunt of the responsibility as whatever decision is made happens to her body (be it abortion or childbirth).

I don't really understand how you would legislative the alternative if men were mandated their "say". Would a man be able to force a woman to undergo an abortion? Would he be able to force her to bear the child to term? In any case, our bodies are needed in order to make the babies, so we should be the ones to have the final say.

Perhaps someday in the future, modern technology will allow a fetus to be removed and transplanted to someone else or frozen for later use. But until then, I don't see how a free society can enforce women to fulfill this obligation.

Th0r S1mpson
10-26-05, 12:24 PM
Jadzia, I follow so much of your reasoning... all but the part about it becoming a woman's right instead the the child's early on. At what point does that change? Is there a specific point in child development when the fetus becomes a citizen and before that it's just an inconvenient growth that the woman might let turn into a person?

As far as the argument about giving a man say in abortion, I don't think that is something that anyone here would condone. The point is, <b>if</B> you make it an issue of sexual equality, the man should have a say about his child. This is used to demonstrate how unfair the argument is. No father should have this choice, and neither should a mother (unless you grant the same rights to the father, which nobody wants).

You say "Perhaps someday in the future, modern technology will allow a fetus to be removed and transplanted to someone else or frozen for later use. But until then, I don't see how a free society can enforce women to fulfill this obligation."

Well... the converse of that if we're talking about equality between the parents is if there was a painless way to perform an abortion without any harm to the mother (say a little pill), should a man be able to force that abortion? No.


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