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JasonF
10-20-05, 05:49 PM
Senate budget chief wins big in lottery
Thu Oct 20, 2005 6:15 PM ET

By Richard Cowan

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Judd Gregg, chairman of the Senate Budget Committee, worries that his deficit-ridden, free-spending country is gambling on its future.

But the New Hampshire Republican's own little gamble paid off big time when he won $853,492 -- before taxes -- as a second place winner in the multi-state Powerball lottery.

Spokeswoman Erin Rath said on Thursday that Gregg had bought $20 worth of tickets at a Washington gas station on his way to work on Monday.

"As he was leaving, he realized he didn't get the last ticket" he bought, Rath said. The cashier "joked that maybe this was the winning number."

Rath said Gregg will donate part of his winnings to a foundation named after his father, Hugh, which helps New Hampshire charities.

Beyond that, "I think his wife has a lot of ideas," said Rath.

Asked whether Gregg, a wealthy lawyer, would give any more of his winnings to the government to help reduce the $314 billion projected federal deficit, Rath said, "Hmmmmmm."

http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=domesticNews&storyID=2005-10-20T221524Z_01_FOR080056_RTRUKOC_0_US-CONGRESS-GREGG.xml&archived=False

Senator Gregg can really use the money -- he was only worth $2 million to begin with, which is chump change for a Senator.

classicman2
10-20-05, 05:57 PM
I started to post this in the correct forum. I wish I had now. ;)

DVD Polizei
10-20-05, 06:01 PM
IRS: "Cool. Maybe he can pay his taxes now. :up:"

JasonF
10-20-05, 06:33 PM
classicman -- I figure it's only a matter of time before the libertarians begin ranting about the fact that the chairman of the Senate Budget Committee doesn't have enough fiscal sense to not play the lottery. Best to beat the rush and start things off here. :p

Ranger
10-20-05, 06:44 PM
Now it just might be time for me to start supporting the progressive tax. :/

bhk
10-20-05, 08:11 PM
He needs to be worth a few hundred million before the dems will let him into the club.

classicman2
10-20-05, 08:19 PM
The difference - the Democrats who are rich understand that brings certain obligations to society. The Repubs, on the other hand, merely want to become richer at the expense of the society. ;)

X
10-20-05, 08:43 PM
The difference - the Democrats who are rich understand that brings certain obligations to society. Yet strangely, they don't seem to pay the amount of taxes they want to impose on the other rich and especially, the middle class.

How much tax did John Kerry and his wife pay last year as a percentage of their income? How much did George W. Bush and his wife pay as a percentage of their income?

Ranger
10-20-05, 08:48 PM
I'm not sure if it's fair to only use Bush for the reps and Kerry for the dems in comparing who pays more taxes.

classicman2
10-20-05, 09:02 PM
The Democrats want to give targetted tax cuts to the middle class. They don't want to raise taxes on the middle class.

It's the Repubs who insist on giving tax breaks to the wealthy. If you doubt this, just watch CSPAN and the Repubs attempt to get the budget reconciliation bill passed.

X
10-20-05, 09:40 PM
The Democrats want to give targetted tax cuts to the middle class. They don't want to raise taxes on the middle class.You mean they want to control people to act in a certain way to lower their taxes and then after they do it for a while they take away the incentive? Like Breaux's suggestion of sharply reducing the home mortgage deduction.

What do you call those "targeted" tax cuts? Middle class welfare?

How much tax did the truly rich Democrats such as Kerry pay again?

X
10-20-05, 09:41 PM
I'm not sure if it's fair to only use Bush for the reps and Kerry for the dems in comparing who pays more taxes.You want fairer? Compare the Kerry household's taxes to the average American's.

JasonF
10-20-05, 10:33 PM
... and you didn't want to put this thread in Politics Talk. :lol:

classicman2
10-21-05, 06:38 AM
If you want to see where the Republican leadership's 'sympathies' lie - again look at the budget reconciliation bill that is currently in the House; and, see how the Repubs intend to pay for Katrina, Rita, Iraq, etc.

Oh I forgot - how they propose to pay for the tax cuts for the millionaires and billionaires.

grundle
10-21-05, 08:20 AM
How much tax did John Kerry and his wife pay last year as a percentage of their income? How much did George W. Bush and his wife pay as a percentage of their income?

http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1241747/posts

Middle Class Said To Pay Higher Tax Rate Than Heinz Kerry And Kerry

Mon Oct 11 2004 10:22:17 ET

Stephen Moore, president of the Club for Growth, writes in the WALL STREET JOURNAL on Monday: "According to the Kerrys' own tax records, and they have not released all of them, the couple had a combined income of $6.8 million in income last year and paid $725,000 in income taxes. That means their effective tax rate was a whopping 12.8%....

"Under the current tax system the middle class pays far more than the Kerry tax rate. In fact, the average federal tax rate -- combined payroll and income tax -- for a middle-class family is closer to 20% or more. George W. and Laura Bush, who had an income one- tenth of the Kerrys', paid a tax rate of 30%.

"Here is the man who finds clever ways to reduce his own tax liability while voting for higher taxes on the middle class dozens of times in his Senate career. He even voted against the Bush tax cut that saves each middle-class family about $1,000."

The Kerrys "have unwittingly made the case for what George W. Bush says he wants to do: radically simplify and flatten out the tax code. ... So before John Kerry is given the opportunity to raise taxes again on American workers, shouldn't he and Teresa at least pay their fair share?"

classicman2
10-21-05, 08:22 AM
Heinz & Kerry are representative of all of the extremely wealthy Democrats. :rolleyes:

bhk
10-21-05, 09:13 AM
Heinz & Kerry are representative of all of the extremely wealthy Democrats.
They are representative of the extrememly wealthy, repubs or dems or independants.

Oh I forgot - how they propose to pay for the tax cuts for the millionaires and billionaires.

I guess you would prefer sending more of our money to the type of agencies that sent $100,000,000 worth of ice to Maine as part of Katrina relief?

classicman2
10-21-05, 09:22 AM
I prefer taxing those that can best afford it to pay for things like the war in Iraq.

I guess that's a quaint idea for you right-wing, former fiscal conservatives, former deficit hawk types. My how times have changed. ;)

X
10-21-05, 10:03 AM
Heinz & Kerry are representative of all of the extremely wealthy Democrats. :rolleyes: Let's try another extremely wealthy Democrat who "understands that brings certain obligations to society."


Forrester's '04 income topped $4 million, tax return shows
10/18/2005, 5:41 p.m. ET
By ANGELA DELLI SANTI
The Associated Press

TRENTON, N.J. (AP) — The Republican candidate for governor, millionaire businessman Doug Forrester, had more than $4 million in income last year and paid a quarter of it to Uncle Sam.

Forrester, who is mostly self-financing his campaign for governor, paid $1.2 million in federal income tax last year on adjusted gross income of $4.4 million, according to the 2004 federal tax return his staff made public Tuesday.

He paid $358,000 in state taxes.

Forrester and his wife, Andrea, earned the vast majority of their income, $3.8 million, from his prescription drug benefits business, BeneCard Services Inc., the federal return shows.

A year earlier, Forrester paid federal tax of $3.7 million on adjusted gross income of $12 million. He paid $4.7 million on adjusted gross income of $12.6 million in 2002.

Asked about the variation in Forrester's income over the previous two years, his campaign spokeswoman, Sherry Sylvester, said, "That's the variation in the business cycle." In 2001, Forrester earned about $2 million, she said.

U.S. Sen. Jon Corzine, meanwhile, paid federal tax of $1.3 million on adjusted gross income of $11.8 million in 2004, according to tax returns he released in August.

http://www.nj.com/newsflash/statehouse/index.ssf?/base/news-17/1129672145122260.xml&storylist=njxgr Hmm, so Corzine (Democrat) paid an effective tax rate of 11% this year and Forrester (Republican) paid an effective tax rate of <s>39%</s> 31% on just about the same income from the previous year. This year Forrester paid the same amount of taxes as Corzine but his income was only about 1/3 as much as Corzine's.

I wonder which of the two advocates raising taxes on the rich and which of the two would end up paying more tax if that increase went through?

wendersfan
10-21-05, 10:21 AM
You know, as long as no laws are broken, I don't care much about the amounts any public officials pay in income tax, regardless of their party affiliation. Or maybe Senator Corzine (former chair of Goldman-Sachs, I believe) just has better accountants than Mr. Forrester.

X
10-21-05, 10:27 AM
You know, as long as no laws are broken, I don't care much about the amounts any public officials pay in income tax, regardless of their party affiliation. Or maybe Senator Corzine (former chair of Goldman-Sachs, I believe) just has better accountants than Mr. Forrester.I don't care either. However they advocate raising taxes that other people will pay, not them. So it's pretty hard to say "The difference - the Democrats who are rich understand that brings certain obligations to society."

There might be more than just a little of the dreaded word, dare I say, hypocrisy involved. Or maybe it's just that the "Democrats who are rich" just don't belong to society so they have no obligations.

JasonF
10-21-05, 10:39 AM
Hmm, so Corzine (Democrat) paid an effective tax rate of 11% this year and Forrester (Republican) paid an effective tax rate of 39% on just about the same income from the previous year.

Your math is off. Also, given the changes that are going on with the tax code, I'm not certain that comparing Corzine's 2004 taxes to Forrester's 2002 taxes is an apples-to-apples comparison.

X
10-21-05, 10:48 AM
Your math is off. Also, given the changes that are going on with the tax code, I'm not certain that comparing Corzine's 2004 taxes to Forrester's 2002 taxes is an apples-to-apples comparison.Yes, it was 31%, not 39%. I mixed up the numbers of the two previous years. But I was talking about 2003 so let's take a look at his 2003 numbers again...

A year earlier [2003], Forrester paid federal tax of $3.7 million on adjusted gross income of $12 million. He paid $4.7 million on adjusted gross income of $12.6 million in 2002. That means in 2003 Forrester paid a 31% effective tax rate. He paid 37% in 2002. Will his taxes go to Corzine's 11% this year? Unlikely.

And it certainly doesn't change the fact that Corzine paid a much lower percentage (11%) than the average American household in 2004. The numbers are there for the current year so you can analyze them. I'll look for Corzine's return from 2002.

[I've looked. Evidently he wouldn't release his earlier returns.]

Ranger
10-21-05, 10:51 AM
I think it was reported last week that Congress raised the SS income tax rate cap from $90,000 to $94,200. About 11 million more people will start paying into SS. So is this raising taxes on the rich or the middle class?

X
10-21-05, 10:52 AM
I think it was reported last week that Congress raised the SS income tax rate cap from $90,000 to $94,200. About 11 million more people will start paying into SS. So is this raising taxes on the rich or the middle class?Around here that's the people who can just start thinking about buying a starter home.

classicman2
10-21-05, 10:55 AM
2/3 to 3/4 of the people pay more FICA taxes than they do federal income tax.

I imagine that's true for most of the Republican millionaires also - even though they pay FICA only on $94,200. Most of them don't pay any income tax. They've got their party to feel their pain and look out for them. :lol:

Ranger
10-21-05, 12:42 PM
So millionaires aren't totally immune from the ss tax? Aside from paying medicare, they still pay up to when their income hits $94,200 on the ss tax?

X
10-21-05, 01:03 PM
Yes. And they continue paying 2.9% of their income as Medicare tax with no cap.

That is, unless they're former presidential candidate John Edwards (another Democrat who is rich and understands "that brings certain obligations to society.")

In the recent vice presidential debate, Dick Cheney accused John Edwards of using the S corporation form to avoid $600,000 in federal taxes in one year. The corporation pursued legal settlements mostly in the form of damages from forms of medical malpractice. Shareholders in Edwards’ S corporation were attorneys. Edwards maintained in the debate that he had paid all required taxes. So what was this all about?

Apparently, in 1995 John Edwards earned approximately $20 million of legal fees inside his S corporation. By paying out a salary to himself of only $360,000, he avoided paying about $600,000 in Medicare taxes (at the prevailing 2.9% rate).

A great deal of discussion about Mr. Edwards’ situation popped up in the New York Times, Wall Street Journal, and Tax Notes. The responses quite often followed the party affiliation of the letter-writers. The general consensus on the tax issues was that:

- Edwards’ $360,000 is probably less than a level of reasonable compensation (i.e., it totaled less than two percent of the legal fees earned), and

- The IRS could in court successfully deem/recharacterize any distributions as wages subject to FICA and FUTA taxes.

Even a defender of Mr. Edwards said that if these funds were distributed to the candidate as dividends rather than compensation, he “was making use of an alleged ‘tax shelter’ and the IRS would be quite justified in treating the distributions as salary.”

Another writer, Harry D. Shapiro, said that “it is hypocritical of Mr. Edwards to speak so vocally about the solvency of the Medicare system when he has participated in a major abuse of the Medicare tax.”

http://www.swlearning.com/tax/wft/updates/04news/103104.html

island007
10-21-05, 01:04 PM
2/3 to 3/4 of the people pay more FICA taxes than they do federal income tax.



The obvious answer is to get rid of the FICA tax and the stupid underling programs. Why stop there?


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