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Mutley Hyde
10-18-05, 08:05 PM
US security chief strives to expel all illegal immigrants (http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/10/18/051018154752.u9fj2ynj.html)

Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff said his department aims without exception to expel all those who enter the United States illegally.

"Our goal at DHS (Homeland Security) is to completely eliminate the 'catch and release' enforcement problem, and return every single illegal entrant, no exceptions.

"It should be possible to achieve significant and measurable progress to this end in less than a year," Chertoff told a Senate hearing.

Thousands of "Mexicans who are caught entering the United States illegally are returned immediately to Mexico. But other parts of the system have nearly collapsed under the weight of numbers. The problem is especially severe for non-Mexicans apprehended at the southwest border," Chertoff explained.

"Today, a non-Mexican illegal immigrant caught trying to enter the United States across the southwest border has an 80 percent chance of being released immediately because we lack the holding facilities," he added.

"Through a comprehensive approach, we are moving to end this 'catch and release' style of border enforcement by reengineering our detention and removal process."

Chertoff's remarks in favor of returning "every illegal entrant, no exceptions" appeared to conflict directly with the US policy toward illegal Cuban migrants.

Though Cubans picked up at sea are returned to their country, those who reach US soil by air, sea or ground are allowed to stay and work -- a fact Cuba says encourages dangerous illegal emigration attempts.

Okay, not that I'm complaining, but just where the hell did this come from all of the sudden? I mean, Dubya's gonna flip when he hears about this. -wink-

Th0r S1mpson
10-18-05, 08:12 PM
<img src="http://www.zboneman.com/movies/images/jawz.jpg">
"We're gonna need a bigger Gitmo"

Laser Movies
10-18-05, 09:04 PM
I don't believe anything that anyone from the Bush administration says when it comes to border enforcement and illegal immigration. If Chertoff was serious about it he would be dumped by Bush and replaced with someone else. Four years after 9/11 and they are finally going to clamp down. Give me a break.

DVD Polizei
10-18-05, 09:24 PM
BIG TALK

little steps

chowderhead
10-18-05, 09:34 PM
could you have at least posted a link from someone somewhat reputable so we get a full picture.

Here is what Chertoff has been saying.

Bush Pushes for Guest Worker program (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051018/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_immigration;_ylt=AvOvI8fdTOsy74qnV8kJCJcD5gcF;_ylu=X3oDMTBjMHVqMTQ4BHNlYwN5bnN1YmNhdA--)
"We're going to need more than just brute enforcement,"
Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff told the Senate Judiciary Committee. "We're going to need a temporary worker program as well."

Sounds to me, he is toeing the administration's line on REWARDING illegal immigration. He wants everyone illegal returned but also a guest worker program? Can you imagine a day when Hillary Rodham Clinton is to the RIGHT of everyone's man-god GWB on illegal immigration?

Mutley Hyde
10-18-05, 09:44 PM
So Breitbart.com is irreputable? It's the first time I've ever heard of them so I had no idea - thanks for letting me know they're not to be trusted.

And sure I'd be willing to post links to other sources for the same information, but this was just the first thing I saw on this, and I'm sorry but I didn't see the need to go Googling around for multiple sources. I'm not a journalist, I'm just posting shit on a public forum for the sake of conversation.

You can bash Breitbart all you want, but I think Chertoff's own quoted words are pretty interesting, especially in light of the other stuff I've heard him say in the past, including that which you reference, supporting Bush's guest worker bullshit.

I posted this article because it was odd to hear it coming from Chertoff and I thought it rather funny, not because I think there is any real change in the illegal immigration policy of this administration.

DVD Polizei
10-18-05, 09:46 PM
You should know by now that if there is a disagreement with issues, someone is EVIL & CYNICAL and the other is RIGHTEOUS & HOLY.

Mutley Hyde
10-18-05, 09:51 PM
Well.. yeah. ;)

Mutley Hyde
10-18-05, 10:13 PM
Okay, just for shits and giggles, click here (http://news.google.com/news?q=return+every+single+illegal+entrant&hl=en&lr=&tab=nn&ie=UTF-8&filter=0) for Google results on "return every single illegal entrant". That should include most of the news media sources online that have reported on Chertoff's comments. Feel free to peruse them at your leisure... surely at least a few of them would be objective.

Laser Movies
10-19-05, 12:14 AM
could you have at least posted a link from someone somewhat reputable so we get a full picture.


Would this qualify as a reputable source for the information quoted by Chertoff?

http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/display?theme=45&content=4890

Th0r S1mpson
10-19-05, 12:50 AM
Okay, just for shits and giggles, click here (http://news.google.com/news?q=return+every+single+illegal+entrant&hl=en&lr=&tab=nn&ie=UTF-8&filter=0) for Google results on "return every single illegal entrant". That should include most of the news media sources online that have reported on Chertoff's comments. Feel free to peruse them at your leisure... surely at least a few of them would be objective.
We should probably stop posting more sources when the other side disagrees or asks for more information. It never accomplishes anything anyway. :shrug:

In fact, this forum should probably just be locked.

Mutley Hyde
10-19-05, 02:15 AM
The whole forum you mean, or just this thread? Or does that even matter at this point? :lol:

fujishig
10-19-05, 03:12 PM
Once again, one of the steps needs to be punishing the businesses that hire illegal aliens. An article from the latimes today follows.

Basically, the ruling is that illegal immigrants should get workers comp when injured at work. I can't say I disagree, and it needs to come out of the employer's pockets. What boggles my mind is that there is clear knowledge that this company hires illegal aliens, the courts know about it, the government knows about it, and nothing is done?

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-comp19oct19,1,3963179.story?coll=la-headlines-business

Court Backs Immigrants' Labor Rights
# In a Farmer Bros. case, state judges rule that people illegally hired can get workers' comp.

By Marc Lifsher, Times Staff Writer

Illegal immigrants hurt on the job are entitled to workers' compensation benefits, a state appeals court panel has ruled, upholding California's policy of granting workplace rights to undocumented employees.

Torrance coffee roaster Farmer Bros. Co. had sought to deny workers' comp benefits to an injured employee who was in the country illegally. The company argued that federal immigration laws superseded the state's system for treating victims of workplace injuries.

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But the 2nd District Court of Appeal in Los Angeles, in a ruling published late Monday, said federal immigration statutes didn't preempt state laws governing workers' comp insurance, minimum wage guarantees and occupational health and safety protections.

"California law has expressly declared immigration status irrelevant to the issue of liability to pay compensation to an injured worker," the court ruled, upholding an earlier decision by the state Workers' Compensation Appeals Board against Farmer Bros.

Experts said the unanimous ruling by the three-judge panel was the first time an appeals court in California had specifically upheld the right of illegal immigrants to receive medical care and disability benefits for on-the-job injuries.

A finding in favor of Farmer Bros. would have been "devastating" and "would have put hundreds of thousands of workers at real risk," said Merle Rabine, a commissioner on the workers' comp appeals board, which had previously ruled that illegal immigrants were entitled to benefits.

An estimated 2.6 million illegal immigrants live in California, according to the state Department of Finance.

Rabine said that the appeals court ruling, although a first for California, echoed decisions made in at least four other states that illegal immigrants were eligible for workplace protections.

Monday's decision is "definitely affirming both the common sense application of California law and what every other court in the country has routinely found: that federal immigration law does not preempt state workers' compensation laws," said Kari Krogseng, a San Leandro attorney who filed a brief in the case on behalf of the California Applicants' Attorneys Assn., which represents injured workers.

Farmer Bros. spokesman Jim Lucas declined to comment on the ruling. In court filings, however, the company argued that the employee, Rafael Ruiz, broke state insurance laws by using fraudulent identification papers to get hired and become eligible for workers' comp benefits.

The court rejected the argument, noting that no state or federal law required Ruiz to be "a lawfully documented alien to be an employee entitled to workers' compensation benefits."

According to his lawyer's case file, Ruiz, 35, injured his shoulders, back, neck and hands by repeatedly lifting heavy sacks of coffee beans.

Employers such as Farmer Bros. generally fight what they consider to be questionable workers' comp claims in an effort to prevent potential fraud and keep insurers from increasing their annual premiums.

California law has been clear in providing workplace protections regardless of an employee's immigration status, said Susan Gard, a spokeswoman for the state Division of Workers' Compensation. Lifting the mandate to pay minimum wage or provide medical care for injuries could create an "incentive to hire illegal workers," Gard said.

Farmer Bros.' contention that illegal immigrants should be denied workers' comp benefits is "not a widely supported stance" among California employers, said David DePaolo, president of Workcompcentral.com, a news and legal research website in Camarillo.

David Schwartz, past president of the California Applicants' Attorneys Assn., suggested that some employers might have been reluctant to back Farmer Bros. because they "are hiring these people knowing they are undocumented and could get in trouble."

Advocates for tougher immigration control criticized the ruling and called for the federal government to get tough in penalizing employers who hire illegal immigrants.

"We can't reward people for breaking the law," said Andy Ramirez, a spokesman for Friends of the Border Patrol, a Covina-based group that sends members to patrol the U.S. border with Mexico.

"Employers of illegal aliens should be charged and prosecuted to the full extent of the law," he said.

Laser Movies
10-20-05, 02:18 PM
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/mexico/20051019-1119-mexico-usimmigration.html


Mexico calls Bush's position on immigration reform 'significant'


ASSOCIATED PRESS

11:19 a.m. October 19, 2005

MEXICO CITY Mexico described as "significant" the immigration-reform positions laid out by the administration of President George W. Bush on Tuesday, but said any U.S. plan would have to "recognize the contributions of migrants" and take into consideration those already living north of the border.
Bush on Tuesday argued for his temporary worker plan for foreigners, hoping to win over skeptical conservatives with get-tough promises about illegal immigration.

"The Mexican government considers it significant that the administration of President Bush has a solid and unified position on immigration reform that allows safe, legal and orderly migration, and takes into account those migrants who are already residing in the United States," the Foreign Relations Department said in a press statement.

"Mexico understands the link between regional security and the immigration issue," according to the statement, "but stresses that both issues should be viewed as shared responsibilities."

The government said it would maintain contact with U.S. lawmakers and officials "to make suggestions to help the immigration situation and standards of living of our countrymen."

Bush administration officials appeared on Capitol Hill on Tuesday to promote the guest worker plan, saying action is needed beyond improving border patrols to stem the flow of illegal immigrants.

"We're going to need more than just brute enforcement," Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff told the Senate Judiciary Committee. "We're going to need a temporary worker program as well."

Bush last year introduced a plan that would allow undocumented workers to get three-year work visas. They could extend that for another three years, but would then have to return to their home countries for a year to apply for a new work permit.

Labor Secretary Elaine Chao said workers accepted into the program would be issued biometric, tamper-resistant cards that would allow them to cross U.S. borders during their stay.

"Those who come forward will not be offered an automatic pass to citizenship and should be expected to pay a substantial fine or penalty to participate in the temporary program," she said.

Chertoff said that the nearly 900,000 Mexicans who are caught entering United States every year are returned immediately to Mexico, "but other parts of the system have nearly collapsed under the weight of numbers."

Chertoff said that in the just-concluded budget year 120,000 of the 160,000 non-Mexican nationals apprehended by the Border Patrol were released, often on their own recognizance, because there is no place to hold them. "That is unacceptable and we are going to change that immediately."

General Zod
10-20-05, 02:42 PM
The only way to stop illegal immigration is to take away the jobs. The only way to take away the jobs is to start enforcing a law already on the books that fines employers of illegal immigrations $10,000 per illegal they hire (Plus some small jail time). How many employers were prosecuted for this last year? ZERO. That's what needs to change, the rest is lip service.

Ranger
10-20-05, 04:25 PM
The Justice Department today also announced that they soon will be able to completely stop the flow of illegal drugs into the country.

Th0r S1mpson
10-20-05, 04:31 PM
The Justice Department today also announced that they soon will be able to completely stop any act of badness.


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