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bareva
09-29-05, 05:42 PM
well, at least your high schools dropouts--army changing recruiting tactic?
http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=31867

Mopower
09-29-05, 05:52 PM
The Army is a hell of a lot better than working at McDonald's the rest of your life.

Th0r S1mpson
09-29-05, 07:06 PM
The Army is a hell of a lot better than working at McDonald's the rest of your life.
...although there is debate over which job is most likely to find Osama.

bareva
09-30-05, 02:57 PM
lol

Tommy Ceez
09-30-05, 03:11 PM
Osamma eats at White Castle, that fuckin savage

Jason
09-30-05, 04:35 PM
When are they going to start offering pardons to prisoners who serve a hitch?

adamblast
09-30-05, 05:33 PM
...unless you're gay, because it's bad for morale.

...unless we're at war, in which case you're good enough to serve as long as you hurry up and die fast. Because we're throwing you out again as soon as it's peacetime.

natevines
09-30-05, 05:37 PM
As soon as the military drops its politically correct agenda, maybe I'll join.

NCMojo
10-01-05, 07:21 PM
The Army is a hell of a lot better than working at McDonald's the rest of your life.
I can think of 2,131 (http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2003/iraq/forces/casualties/) responses to that. (Plus an additional 299 (http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2004/oef.casualties/) for good measure.)

nemein
10-01-05, 07:36 PM
I can think of 2,131 (http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2003/iraq/forces/casualties/) responses to that. (Plus an additional 299 (http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2004/oef.casualties/) for good measure.)


Compared to the hunderds of thousands, if not millions, who have/will go on to do something better w/ their life in, or after, serving in the military... The odds are still pretty much in your favor IMHO.

nemein
10-01-05, 07:37 PM
As soon as the military drops its politically correct agenda, maybe I'll join.


:hscratch:

NCMojo
10-01-05, 07:51 PM
Compared to the hunderds of thousands, if not millions, who have/will go on to do something better w/ their life in, or after, serving in the military... The odds are still pretty much in your favor IMHO.
See, if you work at McDonalds... worst-case scenario, you sort of waste your life for a few years... but you're still alive.

There are undoubtedly quite a few mothers who would have preferred that their sons flip burgers instead of coming home in a box. IMHO.

nemein
10-01-05, 08:15 PM
See, if you work at McDonalds... worst-case scenario, you sort of waste your life for a few years... but you're still alive.

There are undoubtedly quite a few mothers who would have preferred that their sons flip burgers instead of coming home in a box. IMHO.

Or you potentially run the risk of wasting your entire life away there. That's not to say those who go into the military automatically succeed or those who work a McD automatically fail. Each occupation has it's own advantages/disadvantages/opportunities.

Undoubtedly there are also quite a few mothers who are proud their sons went into the service instead of flipping burgers.

Rockmjd23
10-01-05, 08:31 PM
I can think of 2,131 (http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2003/iraq/forces/casualties/) responses to that. (Plus an additional 299 (http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2004/oef.casualties/) for good measure.)
:lol: I can't believe it took 2 days for someone to post something like this.

NCMojo
10-01-05, 08:34 PM
Or you potentially run the risk of wasting your entire life away there. That's not to say those who go into the military automatically succeed or those who work a McD automatically fail. Each occupation has it's own advantages/disadvantages/opportunities.

Undoubtedly there are also quite a few mothers who are proud their sons went into the service instead of flipping burgers.
Sure, but in a time of war -- especially a war against an enemy that was never a threat to us -- joining the Army and getting shot at is just foolishness. And this doesn't even address the thousands of Army enlistees who come back crippled and maimed. Or the tens of thousands who will suffer psychological damage.

If the choice for my sons was risking their lives, their health and their future, or spending some time at the fry machine... well, it's a no-brainer. Life always wins out.

nemein
10-01-05, 08:44 PM
If the choice for my sons was risking their lives, their health and their future, or spending some time at the fry machine... well, it's a no-brainer. Life always wins out.

The choice for my sons would be theirs to make. I would be proud it they served, I wouldn't discourage them from doing so if they wanted too but I wouldn't be disappointed if they didn't.

NCMojo
10-01-05, 08:56 PM
The choice for my sons would be theirs to make. I would be proud it they served, I wouldn't discourage them from doing so if they wanted too but I wouldn't be disappointed if they didn't.
Seriously? If your sons wanted to go and fight in Iraq, you wouldn't try and talk them out of it?

Put this another way -- do you believe strongly enough in what we are doing in Iraq to sacrifice your sons to the cause?

(And by the way -- do you actually have sons? I don't mean anything by the question, I'm just wondering.)

nemein
10-01-05, 09:17 PM
Seriously? If your sons wanted to go and fight in Iraq, you wouldn't try and talk them out of it?

Put this another way -- do you believe strongly enough in what we are doing in Iraq to sacrifice your sons to the cause?


Whether specifically Iraq or just to serve in general the decision would be theirs. As long as the choosen occupation wasn't illegal I would try to be supportive of whatever they decided to do. It's what my parents did for me.



(And by the way -- do you actually have sons? I don't mean anything by the question, I'm just wondering.)
No I don't, I know I might feel differently if I did but I don't suspect so.

NCMojo
10-01-05, 09:41 PM
Whether specifically Iraq or just to serve in general the decision would be theirs. As long as the choosen occupation wasn't illegal I would try to be supportive of whatever they decided to do. It's what my parents did for me.
So if one of your sons wanted to drop out of school and become a rapper or a professional wrestler, you would be supportive of whatever they wanted to do?

Of course I would support my kids in whatever path they would choose... even if they wanted to enlist in the Army during a time of war. But I would try to talk them out of it, especially when I don't believe in the cause.

nemein
10-01-05, 09:43 PM
So if one of your sons wanted to drop out of school and become a rapper or a professional wrestler, you would be supportive of whatever they wanted to do?


Ok you got me on that one... I was presupposing they would finish school ;) That's something I would strongly encourage them/try to influence them on.


Of course I would support my kids in whatever path they would choose... even if they wanted to enlist in the Army during a time of war. But I would try to talk them out of it, especially when I don't believe in the cause.Why don't you leave it up to their beliefs?

NCMojo
10-01-05, 09:56 PM
Ok you got me on that one... I was presupposing they would finish school ;) That's something I would strongly encourage them/try to influence them on.

Why don't you leave it up to their beliefs?
Because they're kids -- and more specifically, they're my kids. I could not in good conscience let them go off without talking to them first.

But if they were adults, and if they were resolute -- if they believed in what they were doing -- I would support them 100%.

nemein
10-01-05, 10:07 PM
At what age does a person stop being a "kid" and become an "adult"?

NCMojo
10-01-05, 10:37 PM
At what age does a person stop being a "kid" and become an "adult"?
Oh, at 18, I essentially relinquish control. But they could be 20, 30, 50, and I would still hope they would turn to me for advice.

And of course, I would be trying to teach them right from wrong up to that point... so I would hope they wouldn't be blinded by the type of myopic propoganda that we see today.

DVD Polizei
10-01-05, 10:37 PM
If we had more religion in schools like the Ultra Right Wing wants, we could have a respectful reply to Islamic terrorists. Our military sign-ups would triple.

nemein
10-01-05, 10:41 PM
And of course, I would be trying to teach them right from wrong up to that point... so I would hope they wouldn't be blinded by the type of myopic propoganda that we see today.

Is there any time that you don't see military recruiting as "myopic propoganda" though? If they sign up in peace and we end up in war are you going to encourage them to drop out/not to re-enlist? I suspect though this is just another in a long list of topics we are never going to see eye to eye on...

DVD Polizei
10-01-05, 10:44 PM
Myopic propoganda. That's why you need Political Loupes, available at your local DVD Polizei store. :up:

NCMojo
10-01-05, 11:02 PM
Is there any time that you don't see military recruiting as "myopic propoganda" though? If they sign up in peace and we end up in war are you going to encourage them to drop out/not to re-enlist? I suspect though this is just another in a long list of topics we are never going to see eye to eye on...
We're on to a new level of propoganda. It's one thing if they're trying to sell us on machismo and money for college... but now they're shielding us completely from what this war really is about. We don't see dead bodies, we don't see scenes of suffering or devastation... our government openly lies to us about the reasons for the war, and promotes "talking points" over any intelligent discourse.

If my kids were career military and we had a President trying to create an imaginary justification for an invasion... I would encourage them to leave the military. And I hope that I would have raised them to have the courage and the integrity to stand up and speak out.

nemein
10-01-05, 11:12 PM
We don't see dead bodies, we don't see scenes of suffering or devastation... our government openly lies to us about the reasons for the war, and promotes "talking points" over any intelligent discourse.

We hear numbers and see faces via various programs, actually seeing the coffins/bodies should be up to the individual families. BTW all military casualities are posted/sent out via various maillists as well so it's not like they are trying to hide anything. What news organizations are you following? Scenes of "suffering or devastation" seem to lead the way, what seems to be underreported (except by the military and therefore part of the propaganda machine in your opinion no doubt) is the amount of good work that is being done over there. I throughly disagree w/ the "openly lies" thing too but we've been through that discussion so many times before I don't see the need to rehash it. And finally BOTH sides have pretty much been reduced to "talking points" as neither side wants to really hear what the other has to say.


I would encourage them to leave the military. And I hope that I would have raised them to have the courage and the integrity to stand up and speak out.
Again it seems to me you're trying to make their decisions for them by prejudging the situation based on your ideals. The right and wrong of this war isn't as cut and dried as some make it out, that applies to either side.

DVD Polizei
10-02-05, 12:02 AM
I always figured when you join a government entity, right and wrong don't have a place in your life. You simply serve.

10-02-05, 03:26 AM
hmm, .5-1% chance of being casualty versus the significantly higher risks of being a victim of violent crime, dieing from untreated respitory/heart disease, or being the victim of a predatory lender to list just a few things that the poor have to deal with, gee Poverty is SOOOO Much Better, sign me Up! :rock2:

NCMojo
10-02-05, 10:42 AM
We hear numbers and see faces via various programs, actually seeing the coffins/bodies should be up to the individual families. BTW all military casualities are posted/sent out via various maillists as well so it's not like they are trying to hide anything. What news organizations are you following? Scenes of "suffering or devastation" seem to lead the way, what seems to be underreported (except by the military and therefore part of the propaganda machine in your opinion no doubt) is the amount of good work that is being done over there.
First of all, no, you seldom if ever see the true effects of our war in Iraq. (The "news organizations" I am referring to are what you would call mainstream media -- Fox News, ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, MSNBC -- and the vast majority of work done by the AP.) What you see is the star-spangled All-American version of war -- video game versions of "smart" bombs, the rockets red glare, massive explosions, divisions of armored men in armored vehicles busting down doors -- but you almost never see the bodies of the dead and the wounded on the nightly news. You hear the numbers of casualties, but you don't see the faces unless you go out after the facts. The Army won't let you see the body bags, the flag-draped coffins, the mangled veterans, the people effected by their "Shock and Awe" campaign -- the idea that we actually get to see any of these things in our mainstream media is preposterous. It does not happen, whether through military intervention, government control, or some moralistic imperative to not "offend" the viewing public.

And what is the result? We take war too casually. We allow our politicians to throw around our military might and kill innocent civilians without consequence or significant debate. We don't get outraged when our leaders lie us into war because we don't see the real cost of that deception in human terms. As Robert E. Lee noted, "It is well that war is so terrible. We should grow too fond of it."

NCMojo
10-02-05, 10:49 AM
And finally BOTH sides have pretty much been reduced to "talking points" as neither side wants to really hear what the other has to say.
The difference is that the GOP's "talking points" typically fly directly in the face of actual truth -- and frequently descend into slander and outright lies, as the Joseph Wilson case proves. They are highly coordinated, created at the very top of the party structure and distributed verbatim to their designated conservative mouthpieces at Fox News and talk radio. You can flip from one station to the next and hear the exact same sentences -- and then watch a press conference and see Condi or Rummy or Bush echo the exact same thing.

To generalize this as "information the other side doesn't want to hear" is to soft peddle exactly what is going on -- this is out-and-out propaganda, and it is entirely different than what you see on the left.

Nazgul
10-02-05, 11:13 AM
this is out-and-out propaganda, and it is entirely different than what you see on the left.

What's the difference then?

Mopower
10-02-05, 04:23 PM
See, if you work at McDonalds... worst-case scenario, you sort of waste your life for a few years... but you're still alive.

There are undoubtedly quite a few mothers who would have preferred that their sons flip burgers instead of coming home in a box. IMHO.

Yeah but your life is pretty much worthless. I'll choose the military and the risks thanks.

nemein
10-02-05, 05:52 PM
this is out-and-out propaganda, and it is entirely different than what you see on the left.



:lol: Whatever you want to believe... BOTH sides are in the propaganda business, if you can't see that then perhaps you're more partisan than you think.

nemein
10-02-05, 06:08 PM
Just a random selection of pics taken from yahoo...

<img src="http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/afp/20051001/capt.sge.nao97.011005145407.photo01.photo.default-384x281.jpg?x=380&y=278&sig=RnOLapHiI5uEz.AjYGDQFQ--">

<img src="http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20051001/capt.vtap10110012032.soldier_funeral_vtap101.jpg?x=380&y=237&sig=dpkxsWkYnSItTo6oZsRFPQ--">

<img src="http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20051001/capt.bag11810011618.iraq_bombing_victims_funeral_bag118.jpg?x=380&y=227&sig=W2RomKB9XMJ9xAzezeeVXA--">

<img src="http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/rids/20051001/i/r3517461503.jpg?x=380&y=283&sig=6Pwb3w6U_AMHDRAkPCFBvA--">

<img src="http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20051001/capt.bag10710011214.iraq_prisoner_release_pool_bag107.jpg?x=380&y=259&sig=.jhsAco8I1567RaPYQTIaA--">

<img src="http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/afp/20051001/capt.sge.mzd39.011005085139.photo04.photo.default-384x265.jpg?x=380&y=262&sig=u40VEh.C4OaaSOx0GfD3ew--">

<img src="http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/nm/20051001/2005_09_30t035442_450x313_us_iraq.jpg?x=380&y=264&sig=AYyavJ0KZwbkVUfRIBFjyA--">

<img src="http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/afp/20051001/capt.sge.myo13.011005034416.photo02.photo.default-272x384.jpg?x=244&y=345&sig=idxm1KziVpNw97bbrnhcUw--">

Is this enough devistation/destruction/misery for you? There were more pics up there and these were just the recent ones, I'm not sure if yahoo has a pic archive but I'm sure we could find more for you. How much needs to be seen before you are satisfied enough is being shown?

nemein
10-02-05, 06:20 PM
but you don't see the faces unless you go out after the facts

So you're saying unless I read the news I won't see the lists/see the faces :hscratch: Doesn't that kind of go w/o saying...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/world/iraq/casualties/facesofthefallen.htm - Actually I'm just taking this one based on the name, I don't have a flash player on the machine I'm on currently.

http://www.militarycity.com/valor/honor.html - Website from the [service] Times media group

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,82432,00.html

Just to list a few of the sites around that provide this info...

I'm pretty sure the News Hour still finishes each broadcast w/ a list/pics of the recently confirmed dead as well. Are you saying we should take out billboards or run commericals or something to "get the message out"?

nemein
10-02-05, 06:26 PM
We take war too casually.

I do agree w/ this statement but I suspect from the other direction. I believe people are seriously misunderstanding the consequences if we screw this up and pull out too early leaving a mess behind. To some extent I believe that casualness extends to the political arm of the military (SecDef and through to the President) as well as they try to cater to some of the pressure here (both wrt mistakes made during the war and early occupation, and now w/ the ongoing effects of the occupation/insurgency).

We don't get outraged when our leaders lie us into war because we don't see the real cost of that deception in human terms.
You keep brining up this "lying" as if it were a tride and true fact. Do we really want to go down this road again?



As Robert E. Lee noted, "It is well that war is so terrible. We should grow too fond of it."
I completely agree w/ that too, it however doesn't mean wars aren't going to happen. That's why we should fully commit the man power that is needed to get in there, get the job done and resolve the situation as quickly as possible.

Ranger
10-02-05, 06:44 PM
The point of the showing caskets or showing faces and names is to have people ask themselves if the war was worth this loss.

Vietnam may be the best example. Not many were willing to accept that it was a stupid war until enough lives had been destroyed or ruined.

Goldblum
10-02-05, 06:50 PM
We're on to a new level of propoganda. It's one thing if they're trying to sell us on machismo and money for college... but now they're shielding us completely from what this war really is about. We don't see dead bodies, we don't see scenes of suffering or devastation... our government openly lies to us about the reasons for the war, and promotes "talking points" over any intelligent discourse.

If my kids were career military and we had a President trying to create an imaginary justification for an invasion... I would encourage them to leave the military. And I hope that I would have raised them to have the courage and the integrity to stand up and speak out.
rotfl

NCMojo
10-02-05, 07:10 PM
:lol: Whatever you want to believe... BOTH sides are in the propaganda business, if you can't see that then perhaps you're more partisan than you think.
There is a clear difference between what the right is doing (organized dishonesty) and what the left is doing (disorganized truth). And if you can't see that (and I'm guessing you can't), then you're the one who is clearly blinded by partisanship.

I cannot believe that anyone of any intelligence would seriously try and defend the bullshit that the Bush administration is tossing out.

And neimen, if you don't put on your mod hat and make some kind of blanket statement about posts like goldblum's... I may end up saying things that might get me suspended.

Nazgul
10-02-05, 07:19 PM
There is a clear difference between what the right is doing (organized dishonesty) and what the left is doing (disorganized truth).

I figured that's what it was. :)

Supermallet
10-02-05, 08:11 PM
Yeah but your life is pretty much worthless. I'll choose the military and the risks thanks.

Your life is worth what you make of it. Maybe the kid who works at McDonald's uses his minimum wage to do other good things. Maybe he volunteers at a local shelter. It's absurd to say that because someone is working at McDonald's, their life is worthless.

Mopower
10-02-05, 08:27 PM
Your life is worth what you make of it. Maybe the kid who works at McDonald's uses his minimum wage to do other good things. Maybe he volunteers at a local shelter. It's absurd to say that because someone is working at McDonald's, their life is worthless.

Ya I'd like to see that.

If you have all this time to donate to a shelter how about donating it to getting an education so you don't have to work at McDonalds. Then you can help people even more plus help yourself move out of your dad's basement.

Worthless? Maybe not worthless but worth less in comparason to someone that served in the military for 4 years. They get an education plus experience plus other benefits other than free Big Mac's. And a better sense of self worth. IMO.

Mopower
10-02-05, 08:28 PM
I cannot believe that anyone of any intelligence would seriously try and defend the bullshit that the Left is tossing out.




See it easily works both ways depending on who's "bullshit" you want to believe. There is plenty of it coming from both sides.


<i>Mod note: This is close to being an "edited" post. The reason we banned these is because it's not always easy to tell what people wrote in the first place so it runs the risk of misrepresentation. If you want to make a comment like this please post the original quote unaltered and then add you comments as usual.

thanks
nemein</i>

Supermallet
10-02-05, 08:39 PM
Ya I'd like to see that.

If you have all this time to donate to a shelter how about donating it to getting an education so you don't have to work at McDonalds. Then you can help people even more plus help yourself move out of your dad's basement.

Worthless? Maybe not worthless but worth less in comparason to someone that served in the military for 4 years. They get an education plus experience plus other benefits other than free Big Mac's. And a better sense of self worth. IMO.

Well, I'm so glad that you have the scale on which all human life can be valued. :rolleyes:

I would never in a million years even dream of joining any branch of the military. Guess I must be worthless.

Supermallet
10-02-05, 08:42 PM
Also, the way this administration keeps cutting veterans' benefits, it may not be much better than McDonald's.

Mopower
10-02-05, 08:57 PM
Well, I'm so glad that you have the scale on which all human life can be valued. :rolleyes:


I didn't think someone would take the "worthless" comment literally. :lol: Give me a fucking break. Go ahead and be proud to work at McDonald's. Someone's gotta keep people obese.

I would never in a million years even dream of joining any branch of the military. Guess I must be worthless.

Thanks for putting words in my mouth. Show me where I said "no military service = worthless" Because I sure as hell didn't fucking say it. If you are going to make shit up then this debate is over.

Supermallet
10-02-05, 09:06 PM
Maybe the person is working at McDonald's to pay for their education. Maybe there are a million things you're not thinking of when you decide to just group them all into the "worthless" box.

And your post didn't seem much like a joke. Or maybe you're just trying to play it off like that because you realized that it was callous?

nemein
10-02-05, 09:12 PM
There is a clear difference between what the right is doing (organized dishonesty) and what the left is doing (disorganized truth). And if you can't see that (and I'm guessing you can't), then you're the one who is clearly blinded by partisanship.
I clearly see both side slinging the shit they think will keep them office/power (or help them get more power). The charges of "organized dishonesty" or "disorganized truth" are judgement calls made by the person doing the evaluation of the statemen (which is turn is based on their own biases).




I cannot believe that anyone of any intelligence would seriously try and defend the bullshit that the Bush administration is tossing out.
Ah yes, the left is intellectually superior argument again :rolleyes:


And neimen, if you don't put on your mod hat and make some kind of blanket statement about posts like goldblum's... I may end up saying things that might get me suspended.

Talking about his rotfl post? Personally I don't see anything wrong w/ it wrt to the rules, it doesn't add much to the discussion but he's expressing his POV about your statement. If you feel differently though please use the RTP though.

DarkestPhoenix
10-02-05, 11:04 PM
Mopower, where'd you get your sig?

Nice thoughts, too.

kms_md
10-03-05, 03:21 PM
for the sake of the discussion, our military (unlike the military during the vietnam era) is an all volunteer force. you join up, you owe the government 8 years. what they do with you is not really in your hands anymore. your maturation as a person and as a soldier/airman/sailor/marine comes from doing your job and dealing with the crap that you get dealt during your service. are you at risk? yep, especially if you sign up for combat arms. but anyone who joins the military (whose sole task is to "break stuff" - the words of general honore), has a pretty decent idea of what they are getting into.

Supermallet
10-03-05, 03:34 PM
Actually, I don't think those army recruitment centers really give recruits the whole story of what they'll be getting in to, and if they're not targeting high school dropouts, these kids won't know what questions to ask.

kms_md
10-03-05, 04:26 PM
Actually, I don't think those army recruitment centers really give recruits the whole story of what they'll be getting in to, and if they're not targeting high school dropouts, these kids won't know what questions to ask.

actually, they do. you just have to be able to read your contract (which, i admit, could be a problem for a HS dropout).

Supermallet
10-03-05, 04:30 PM
actually, they do. you just have to be able to read your contract (which, i admit, could be a problem for a HS dropout).

See? Exactly my point. And even most high school graduates don't read whole contracts.

kms_md
10-03-05, 05:56 PM
See? Exactly my point. And even most high school graduates don't read whole contracts.

and this makes the military a bad institution how? there is some personal responsibility involved when you enter into a contract.

besides, when you sign up for combat arms (ie the infantry, armor, the marines in general), you have a pretty good idea that you shoot at stuff. sometimes the stuff shoots back.

Supermallet
10-03-05, 06:30 PM
Also, in their contract, do they detail the possibility of psychological scarring?

kms_md
10-03-05, 06:48 PM
at mcdonald's do they detail the possibility of getting burned by boiling grease?

nemein
10-03-05, 06:54 PM
Also, in their contract, do they detail the possibility of psychological scarring?

Are you talking about McD or the military :hscratch:

kms_md
10-03-05, 06:55 PM
my previous post is a bit more snitty than i intended. the way i see it, the military is in and of itself a dangerous profession. do other professions like alaskan fisherman, oil rig worker, deep sea diver talk about potential psychological scarring?

the bottom line is, for the most part, almost everyone knows what they are getting into. some are in way over their head, and there are avenues for them to get out. combat arms by definition involves killing. you cannot sugarcoat that.

Supermallet
10-03-05, 08:53 PM
And yet the current army ads try to do just that. Have you seen them? The "You're a man now" or "It's time for me to be a man" ads.

kms_md
10-03-05, 09:14 PM
and mickey d's tells me they have good food. it is advertising. and yes, i have seen the ads.

bottom line, the military has opportunity. you take a huge risk to get that opportunity. you sign a stack of paperwork to get that opportunity. you might be brought in the front door of the recruiting office because of the ads, but i doubt you sign your name on the dotted line because of an ad. if you do, you deserve to be miserable during your hitch.

now a video game ... that's a whole different ball game ;).


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