Giantrobo

I've got a new Samsung HD CRT tv and frankly not everything looks as good as I thought it would. I'm using it mostly for DVD and XBOX through component video connections and with the exception of certain XBOX games like X-men Legends which is 720p, my dvd's don't look as good as I think they should. They seemed to look better on my old standard Sony TV. I think i was expecting perfection on this new tv so needless to say it was big letdown. But then again, is this a case of the HDTV exposing things that standard tvs are better at hiding like listening to CD's of analog recordings?

Anyway, I got the extended warranty when i bought it at Sears so I wonder if i should try to have them come out and see if hey can "fix it" or calibrate it? Hence my question in the title. Can/should CRT's be calibrated? As of this posting I'm just under 2 weeks in the 30 return policy so I don't want to wait too long. I'm also not in a mood to haul this TV back to the store.

It's not a bad tv and I like it's style so if someone can come out and "fix" things then obviously that would be great....

Brian Shannon

What DVD's are you using to base your opinion? What DVD player do you have? Have you seen HD programming on the set?

The reason I ask is that I believe that any tv can benefit from calibration, however, some DVD's are never going to look good on any tv. If anything a better tv will magnify the problems with the transfer and the disc.

Finally I am not sure what your idea of perfection is but any display device is only as good as the signal/media being fed to it.

chipmac

I'll echo what Brian said but add the question of what are you seeing that you feel isn't correct?

I'm not familiar with how that TV works but some TVs have different settings based on signal type. In other words your HD signal at 1080i or 720p converted to 1080i for display probably is using different internal settings for things like greyscale, gamma, geometry and possibly color, tint, contrast, brightness and sharpness than what is being used for and SD 480i/p signal. Have you also calibrated the user controls with a disc like Avia?

Depending on what you're seeing wrong a warranty tech might tell you that the TV meets their spec and that there's nothing wrong. A professional calibrator is one that takes your TV beyond the company's spec and tries to match ISF specs for you. A warranty tech rarely even knows what ISF is.

Giantrobo

I guess I was expecting to see crisp clear HD images. Much like the first time I saw dvd. It was like looking at a moving 3D picture.

I've been playing dvd's on it since day one so I can't list them all. But I don't think any of them were considered "bad transfers". As mentioned above I did wonder if it was possible that the HDTV was magnifying dvd issues that were otherwise hidden on standard tv. Also, with the exception of the "Discovery Channel HD broadcasting" in the store showroom, , I've yet to see a HD TV signal on this set. I don't have cable or anything like that and I didn't buy a HD antenna. My dvd player is a Sony DVP-NC80V which is new and I've been very happy with it thus far. Since it's not a "hi end" player I'm sure some will blame it for the so so picture but I don't think the player is at fault. This TV does have that HDMI input but I dont' have anything that uses that so I guess the potential for a "Great looking picture" is still there.

XBOX games look good on it but things like the "XBOX LIVE" desktop isn't crisp and clear. I've tried all the User settings available but they're limited. That's hwy I ws wondeirng if CRT's can be calibrated like Projection tv's.

Brian Shannon

I would forget about basing the quality of the TV on XBox. As for no HD TV then I don't think you have seen what the TV can really do. You may want to try and borrow a setup disc such as Avia or Digital Video Essentials to start with. Remember though, these discs are not a substitute for a real calibration.

Giantrobo

Sigh--- I guess I'm going to have to think about getting someone to calibrate this thing...I'm still may take it back though.

Brian Shannon

I am sorry, not trying to strees you out. If you get a calibration I am not sure you will benefit from the cost. You don't have HD, you don't have a dvd player using dvi/hdmi to connect.

You are not going to get the best this tv has to offer given what you are trying to do with it. Much like buying a Corvette to drive in city traffic!

Adam Tyner

Spend $30 on Avia and see if your opinion changes. I'd also recommend giving it some time -- I was tremendously disappointed with the way DVDs looked on my direct view HD-CRT, but after having it a short while, I frequently find myself impressed by how fantastic my best DVDs look.

Spiky

Throw in a Pixar DVD to see what it is capable of. That's about the best you can hope for until you have HD of some sort. If it looks great, then you are fairly fine, although ISF can always improve it a bit. If The Incredibles looks imperfect, then something's wrong.

Giantrobo

Yeah I've watchd The Incredibles on it. Hmmm, maybe I'll watch again...

Giantrobo

Point taken. I almost bought a dvd player with HDMI but I backed off at the last minute because I didn't think I was going to get a HDTV anytime soon. Within a week I had the TV.

chipmac

A DVD player with HDMI will make a marginal difference since your TV is an analog technology. HDMI and DVI benefit most when the signal stays digital from source to the display. In your case the digital signal will still be converted back to analog for display. IMO a proper calibration will make a bigger difference in PQ than a digital connection.

By the way you still haven't explained why you think the PQ is sub par. What is it about the picture you don't like? If you give us some details and a better idea of what the problem is perhaps we can better steer you in the right direction. Are the colors off? Is it too soft or blurry? Is the picture too noisy? The least you should start with is a calibration disc like Avia or DVE. After that if you're still not happy you should (A) call a tech, (B) hire a calibrator or (C) exchange it for one you are happy with.

Mr. Salty

Keep in mind, DVDs are not HD. You'll see crisp, clear standard-def NTSC images.

Also, you don't say how you have your player connected to the TV. Make sure you're using component, and set the player to output a 16:9 progressive signal.

Giantrobo

1. I keep forgetting that.

2. I'm using this set up.

Giantrobo

You're right. You guys must forgive me for not being more specific. Part of it was not wanting to be to wordy, and the other had to with not knowing how to word things in a techy kinda way.

I think "Noise" does describe some of what I think I'm seeing. I've noticed some menu screen lettering out of focus on different dvd's and on xbox as mentioned above. Now, I know it's been said I shouldn't use xbox as a reference but I would think any HDTV would at the very least produce a crisp clear image even in the case of menus.

sracer

With the right DVD player and cabling, you SHOULD see an incredible picture.

Your Sony DVD player appears to be a Progressive Scan player. That makes a difference. My Pioneer DV-578A ($99, hardly a high-end model) is a progressive scan player too, and seems to be a nice match-up for my Toshiba 34" widescreen HDTV CRT. The quality is very noticeable on my FELLOWSHIP OF THE RING DVD.


My cable TV HD is sub-par... the best Cable HD signal looks about as good as my best DVD.

Playing a "reference quality" disc should appear absolutely flawless. If it doesn't, then I second the recommendation to get AVIA (actually, I should do that myself) and use that to test.

Giantrobo

I wrote this in another thread. I copied and pasted it here since it's an update on my situation.

Well, just this evening I bought a $30 rabbit ear from Savon just to see what would happen and not expecting much and OH...MY...GOD. The 1st channel to show up in HD was KNBC channel 4 and Jay Leno was on. Man, was I immediately impressed. I was shocked at how detailed, clear, and wonderfully letterboxed Jay's show was. As I type this I'm waiting to see Conan in HD. Anyway, I started flipping through the channels and I had no idea so many stations had HD channels along side their regular channels. This made it easy to see the differences in picture quality. KOCE is sending test HD signal out and they're broadcasting select HD shows and they look incredible.

I guess I'll try to work with this TV.

Deftones

Yeah. Some suggestions for fantastic looking HD shows: Las Vegas, CSI: Miami, Conan, Leno, Lost.

bboisvert

Wow, I missed this thread when it was first posted. As other people have said:

1. HDTVs really, really bring out the 'flaws' in standard definition material. Try watching a VHS tape on one -- it's practically unwatchable. Getting a set really makes you thirst for more and more HD programming. 95% of my non-DVD TV watching is now HD. It's getting to the point where I skip watching stuff (Red Sox games, etc. if it isn't being shown in HD).

2. You may want to consider getting an upconverting player that connects via DVI/HDMI. There are some out there that really make a huge, noticable difference in your DVDs and they're not too expensive. Especially since one of the main things you're doing with your TV is watching DVDs, you want to display them in the best possible way.

3. You must -- MUST -- get either Avia or Digital Video Essentials to optimize your TV settings. The factory settings are going to be crap, and you'll never get it right by just aiming for what 'looks natural'. It's going to be the best $20-30 you've ever spent -- it'll make a huge difference.

4. Professional calibration -- you're going to want to wait a few months (I'd actually suggest 4 at a minimum) for your TV to settle before you decide on a calibration. Doing one in the first month or two will be pointless and most pros won't even bother doing it that soon.

(I'm still on the fence about getting mine calibrated... the cost is something I'm having trouble getting over, although I've heard nothing but raves from the people who have had it done.)

Chew

As an alternative, I don't know if this is a complete waste of money, but it sounds good:
http://www.colorvision.com/profis/pr...iew.jsp?id=402




My eyes obviously suck, because the three times I've used Avia: I've gotten fairly different results.

Deftones

I actually did a market survey think on that device. I think it costs too much for what it does. Avia or DVE is less and does the same thing. W/ the professional calibration, they open up your TV and clean the tubes and do other things that a normal video calibration can't do.

Chew

Interesting. I know it's overly pricey, but it claims to use your computer to calibrate. No way that's not better than my eyes and Avia.

chipmac

In order to adjust greyscale you'll need to understand how to get into the service menu of the TV and what to adjust once you're in there. Anything like the Spyder will take readings and display them on your PC but you still need to make adjustments or reprogram the service menu's EPROM. Avia has the test screens for this and many other things but again the real power is knowing how to adjust the service menu settings. You still should use Avia to adjust the user settings better than simply by eye though.

Giantrobo

Yeah, I've seen Forums that discuss this TV model and the "secret code" for getting into the service menu via the remote. Apparently it does it hell of a lot more than the regular menu settings. But if Samsung hears that you went into that menu your warranty is void. So I guess the trick is doing it and if you still need sevice from them, keep your mouth shut. I've also heard that some have even tweaked the screwed up geometry problems this tv(Samsung slim fit 30in) seems to have and it helped make the picture better.

chipmac

In dedicated AV forums this has been debated to death. The consensus seems to be that only damage done by entering the service menu voids the warranty. A pro calibrator is not authorized to enter it either but it's required to do their job. Many, many people have a calibration done and if somewhere down the line a board or chip fails they can't blame the calibrator for entering the service menu for a faulty board. The same applies to the owner. As long as you don't cause the damage from entering incorrect values, changing a setting that trashes the TV or shorting out the electronics from dropping a screwdriver inside then entering the service menu legally won't void the warranty. They would be required to prove that any warranty service you put a call in for was caused by your negligence.

For example it's a well known issue with many brands of RPTVs that the convergence ICs can or will fail over time. Adjusting a TV's overscan requires that the convergence and geometry settings be adjusted to fix this. However there are limits as to how much of an adjustment can be made before putting too much stress on the electronics causing a blown fuse or worse. So as long as the adjustments you make are within the safe zone and the ICs still fail they have to honor it. Or if you open the back of the RPTV to clean the lenses and adjust the focus this would have no bearing on the ICs failing so they can't claim the warranty is void. They just warn the owner to scare them away since there are some dopes that do try and have their mistakes covered and this costs them money.