AmonTwin

I can't seem to find a definitive answer one way or the other about this. I have searched here and on DVDBeaver for some comparisons but can't seem to find anything. I assume they are pretty much the same, but was wondering about their picture/sound quality mostly. Do they have the same extras?

Thanks...

pro-bassoonist

so which one is it...I was going to reply to your Amelie thread....now I see you are asking a different question .

Pro-B

splattii

I have both the R2 and the R1 (I help run an import shop). I can look at them, but other than personal opinion I don't know how I could give you a definate answer. Do you have a suggestion or tool I can use to offer you stats? Would you like me to take a few screen caps?

AmonTwin

Yeah. Not sure what I was thinking with the Amelie one. Didn't even realize it until I went back to check for any replies.

And for splatti (or anyone for that matter that would care to do so), screen caps would be nice. And are the extras the same on both...Thanks again....

ShagMan

I watched R1 AVLE on a 120" screen the week it came out on DVD, and I can't imagine it looking any better... dunno about the extra features tho.

Daniel Windsor

Well, I have to say the French 2 disc CE blows the USA 2 discer out of the water.

Only because it's French though


Seriously, the French image is beautiful and the DTS adds to that wonderfully.

I have just taken a look at the Warner R1 and it has a very nice image too. I don't have time to compare closely (I couldn't possibly sit through the film again so close to the last viewing anyway) but unless you want the DTS I can't imagine the need for the French set.

I don't see any difference with the extras. I will check later but I don' think there is subtitles on the [French] commentary on the French 2 disc but they are on the USA 2 disc. Everything else seems subtitled. I'm not willing to sit through everything to check though. So, if you want the subs on the commentary stick with the USA release.

Some info on the set here


All releases are through Warner so I'd not expect too much image difference.

Daniel Windsor

Incidentally, if you're wondering why Warner have DTS in France and Japan but not in the US...

When DTS was doing very poorly (ie almost out of business) Spielberg and numerous other people bailed the company out and there was some sort of fall out where Warner USA would not support the format.

I don't recall the exact going ons but I'm sure someone will.

Josh Z

Plus, the French disc has PAL speedup, which negates any advantages to DTS.

Daniel Windsor

Do you own the French set? Of course you don't.

NTSC has speed up too. Do you notice that? You must.

Since the disc has very high marks for image and sound everywhere it's obvious there's no problem.


Lots of [closed] threads on this topic so I'm can only conclude you are playing silly games Josh Z.

splattii

I took some screen caps but I forgot the CD at home this morning upon leaving for work. Here is what I found but I will warn everyone I'm not a DVD reviewer by any means so bear with me.

Settings; Using Windows XP standard setting (with the exception of Japanese font sets) I used DGMPGDec and saved BMP file. I did my best to capture 3 shots, each in the same part of the film. I may be off by 1 or 2 seconds (I never really used DGMPGDec before so I used the scroll bar to move to my frame) but for the most part I captured the same part on both English and French discs.

Since I can't actually post the shots until tonight, here is my high level observation. Feel free to correct me. lol

The NTSC disc seemed to have *SLIGHTY* lighter colors. A soldiers uniform for example was more of a forest/deep green on the PAL disc where as the NTSC was slightly lighter. Now when I say this you have to have them side by side to notice, so i don't think it's a major issue.

I noticed (this may be expected, I'm sorry for the ignorance) the PAL picture was longer in terms of height by default on the PC. The picture also seemed every so slight sharper, but that may been a result of the length of the picture. I assume this is because PAL by nature has supports a higher resolution but I do not know, I am only stating what I saw last night.

Upon putting both discs into my player (I used a Malata 520) the apsect ratios were identical and the picture seemed to be the same. This leads me to beleive the reason the PAL disc had a longer picture (almost like the PAL was 16:9 where the NTSC was 2:35:1) is because of what I stated before, that by nature PAL discs have greater resolution than NTSC discs

I noticed the PAL disc retained the widescreen aspect ratio for the menu's where my NTSC had full screen menu's.

Using a Malata 520 I put them on a 52" TV and there the aspect ratio's and picture's looked identical. The only thing I noticed was that the black areas above and below the picture (I don't have a widescreen TV) were darker on the NTSC disc.

If I did not sit there going back and fourth between discs I don't think I'd be able to tell them apart. In fact, at times I had to verify which disc I had in the player.

splattii

One quick correction : When I made the comment

"(almost like the PAL was 16:9 where the NTSC was 2:35:1)"

It was not litteral more than an example of the difference. I beleive the US disc is actually 1:33:1

pro-bassoonist

This post is totally off!! The US disc is not 1.33:1...and 16:9 is meant to indicate anamorphic status whereas 2.35:1 is the OAR. Other than that I believe that the discs should be fairly close in PQ quality as the French disc willl be offering the DTS track.

Pro-B

splattii

Ignore my findings then. As I mentioned I am far from a pro at this. I tried to find some stats quickly last night, but I would hate to mislead anyone. I can post the screenshots if anyone still wants them. I couldn't have messed those up because all I did was put in the disc, go to the chapter and hit "save as BMP". In two of the three shots (one is a spiral staircase, the other in a bunker) the PAL disc was a little sharper than the NTSC. The last shot was too close to call. The difference wasn't great by any means however.

Just out of curiousity, does anyone know why the playback software on the PC offered different default window sized for the PAL vs NTSC disc?

pro-bassoonist

Yes, please post them

Thank you!!

Pro-B

Josh Z

PAL speed-up is an unavoidable fact. The movie will run 4% too fast and this will affect the pitch of the audio.

NTSC does not have speed-up. 3:2 pulldown ensures that NTSC video runs at the same speed as the original 24fps film source.

I'm not a PAL-hater, and I'm sure the French disc sounds fine. But if someone is going out of their way to import a foreign copy specifically for better sound quality, they should be aware that the PAL speed-up negates any sonic advantages that DTS might otherwise provide over a DD 5.1 NTSC copy.

Daniel Windsor

Yes, you've not seen the disc.

If someone was intending to buy the disc I would refer them to my comments (I have the French set) or to the multiple reviews saying it's a great set.

That has to be better than someone's uneducated opinion or large paint strokes quasi-technical analysis on something they've not heard or seen.

DrGerbil

Not this again! Stop the bickering! MY EYES ARE BLEEDING!

Josh Z

Did you even bother to read what I wrote? I'm sure the French disc is nice quality. I'm sure there are other good reasons it's worth owning. However, if someone specifically wants a disc with the best audio quality they can get, no PAL is not the way to go.

PAL does run 4% too fast. Always. There is no circumstance in which a PAL disc will not run 4% too fast. That's the nature of the format. It is unavoidable. I don't need to actually see this disc to know that it will run 4% too fast, anymore than I need to put my hand on a hot stove to know that my skin will burn. It just will.

Daniel Windsor

How do you mean too fast? Too fast for what? How come 500+ million people using PAL (with it's increased resolution) don't find it 'too fast'? We all know what PAL is and NTSC is far from perfect too. No film to video can be perfect.

If you want perfection we would all have to watch film on cine projectors.



Or hear it? For someone who claims to be a DVD reviewer I find that a strange comment. The original poster wanted to know which was the best to buy and you've not seen the DVD in question, don't want to see it yet you keep repeating some technical mumbo jumbo that nobody cares about or even notices.


Well, make your mind up. But how can you say that if you've not seen it and don't think you need to since it's 'too fast'?

I think you'd be better sticking with NTSC and maybe not commenting on anything other than that as you have added nothing to this thread and been completely unhelpful to the original poster.

Joe1086

http://www.michaeldvd.com.au/Article...PALSpeedUp.asp

This article should clear up any questions.

pro-bassoonist

Joe:

With all due respect, Daniel is well aware of the technical nature of PAL (and the way it serves the DVD format). So, your link does not help the ongoing discussion here.

Pro-B

eXcentris

No offense, but I don't see from his arguments that Daniel understands that PAL needs to be sped up in order to run on NTSC equipment so that link is certainly warranted. Example:

Because they use PAL equipment, not NTSC equipment.The fact is, if you play a PAL disc on NTSC equipment, there will be a 4% speedup because 25 fps does not "fit" into 24 fps.

However, the fact remains that 99% of people won't even notice that speedup, but it doesn't hurt to mention it.

pro-bassoonist

I would like to stay away from this discussion as I've stated my opinion a number of times. From what I gather reading the discussion above (and I accept your remak as well) I believe that Daniel was more upset with the fact that Josh judged the French disc, to a certain degree I should say, without having seen it. That is where Daniel's comment comes in, the one you quoted above.

Either way, I would like to stay out of this discussion.

Ciao,
Pro-B

benedict

AmonTwin, please email me if you think you need any more data and I'll clean up this thread and re-open.

Anyone else, tangential PAL v NTSC discussions soon become very tedious.



Benedict
Moderator, International DVD Talk