Watching 'A New Hope' straight after ROTS
#1
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Watching 'A New Hope' straight after ROTS
What do you notice/experience watching a New Hope straight after watching ROTS ?
When Ben Kenobi saves Luke from the Sand people at the beginning, the way he goes on about not hearing the name Obiwan for such a long time seems too unbelievable now.
a) He says before Luke was born, well actually it was at least upto when Luke was born
b) if he was learning the ghost stuff from Yoda/Qui Jon, there is no reason why Qui Jon/Yoda would not still be calling him ObiWan, gonna think that this training lasted at least 5 years
c) Ben/Obiwan doesn't recognise R2D2 ! After their adventures together, that seems unbelievable
When Ben Kenobi saves Luke from the Sand people at the beginning, the way he goes on about not hearing the name Obiwan for such a long time seems too unbelievable now.
a) He says before Luke was born, well actually it was at least upto when Luke was born
b) if he was learning the ghost stuff from Yoda/Qui Jon, there is no reason why Qui Jon/Yoda would not still be calling him ObiWan, gonna think that this training lasted at least 5 years
c) Ben/Obiwan doesn't recognise R2D2 ! After their adventures together, that seems unbelievable
#2
DVD Talk Legend
There's always going to be these little discrepancies, because...once again...
Lucas has been pulling this stuff out of his ass as he goes along.
He made the "mistake" of making episodes 4-6 first, and when it came time to tell an interesting, bankable back-story, I think he realized full well there would be loose ends he couldn't tie up. Why? Because you just can't go back in time and change what you've already done. He would have had to film about another hour of footage to explain all these little things that keep coming up.
Lucas has been pulling this stuff out of his ass as he goes along.
He made the "mistake" of making episodes 4-6 first, and when it came time to tell an interesting, bankable back-story, I think he realized full well there would be loose ends he couldn't tie up. Why? Because you just can't go back in time and change what you've already done. He would have had to film about another hour of footage to explain all these little things that keep coming up.
#3
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It's very simple. Obi Wan was lying. He's a Jedi, not a vulcan.
Besides, what do you want? Do you want him to tell Luke the entire story of Episodes 1-3?
Besides, what do you want? Do you want him to tell Luke the entire story of Episodes 1-3?
#4
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When Ben Kenobi saves Luke from the Sand people at the beginning, the way he goes on about not hearing the name Obiwan for such a long time seems too unbelievable now.
if he was learning the ghost stuff from Yoda/Qui Jon, there is no reason why Qui Jon/Yoda would not still be calling him ObiWan, gonna think that this training lasted at least 5 years
Ben/Obiwan doesn't recognise R2D2 ! After their adventures together, that seems unbelievable
#5
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During the Vader/Kenobi lighsaber duel on the Death Star, Kenobi calles Vader "Darth" like it's his first name. I don't think Lucas had decided that "Darth" was a title by that point. It would have been more logical for Kenobi to call him Anakin.
Also, it seemed odd that Darth Vader appeared to be a henchman for Grand Moff Tarkin. Given Vader's close relationship to Palpatine/Sidious, it should have been the other way around.
The lightsaber duels were pathetically inept by prequel standards, when they started using real martial artists to choreograph them. It seemed like Vader and Kenobi were old men who could barely lift their lightsabers. Compared to the duel on Mustafar, the duel on the Death Star was a joke.
Still, it was fun to watch A New Hope just after seeing RotS. While there were many discrepancies due to the fact that Lucas hadn't figured out the whole story yet, it made sense generally.
Also, it seemed odd that Darth Vader appeared to be a henchman for Grand Moff Tarkin. Given Vader's close relationship to Palpatine/Sidious, it should have been the other way around.
The lightsaber duels were pathetically inept by prequel standards, when they started using real martial artists to choreograph them. It seemed like Vader and Kenobi were old men who could barely lift their lightsabers. Compared to the duel on Mustafar, the duel on the Death Star was a joke.
Still, it was fun to watch A New Hope just after seeing RotS. While there were many discrepancies due to the fact that Lucas hadn't figured out the whole story yet, it made sense generally.
Last edited by Bandoman; 05-28-05 at 09:49 PM.
#6
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by Terrell
Obi-Wan didn't say he doesn't recognize R2D2. He clearly says in a sly way and a concerned look on his face, "I don't seem to remember ever owning a droid."
Can we have this pasted at the top of the SW forum? It's seriously starting to affect my blood pressure.
As for the bit where he calls him "Darth" as if it's name, I prefer to think of it as him mocking his new name, and what he stands for.
#8
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Originally Posted by Bandoman
During the Vader/Kenobi lighsaber duel on the Death Star, Kenobi calles Vader "Darth" like it's his first name. I don't think Lucas had decided that "Darth" was a title by that point. It would have been more logical for Kenobi to call him Anakin.
If Obi-Wan knew that Anakin was "dead", he wouldn't have referred to him by a dead name...although, it would have been a great way to piss Vader off, like milo said above.
You can also look at it from Lucas' standpoint. If he had enough of this planned out ahead of time, he obviously didn't want it revealed to the audience yet that Darth is really Anakin, and Luke's father.
#10
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by Original Desmond
What do you notice/experience watching a New Hope straight after watching ROTS ?
I think Lucas would've made it easier on himself if he made less connections to the originals. Edited tighter, only essential OT characters, not showing the armored Vader, etc.
#11
Moderator
Originally Posted by Original Desmond
c) Ben/Obiwan doesn't recognise R2D2 ! After their adventures together, that seems unbelievable
#12
DVD Talk Gold Edition
Originally Posted by Artman
That it looks and feels completely different.
What I really liked about watching ANH again was that it wasn't the film I memorized and knew so well. I watched it in such a different light, and it was very enjoyable. I thought it matched up very well, and was just so cool to see what has happened to these characters and the world. There were many new insights and meanings.
#13
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Originally Posted by Drop
I somewhat disagree. I think that although it feels a bit different, it also feels somewhat natural. It certainly looks different though. I think it is a nice follow up actually. ROTS is very emotional, and ANH is incredibly fun. Which is very welcome.
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He simply said he doesn't remember owning a droid. AFAIK he never owned R2. Also, Obi Wan never had any attachment to R2 in ep 1-3. If anything Anakin did, not Obi Wan.
As for Obi Wan's name, there were 20 years between 3 and 4. So "before you were born" is fairly accurate.
I agree the light saber duel in ANH is pretty lame. But I guess Obi Wan had no desire to win and Vader was just toying with him.
As for Obi Wan's name, there were 20 years between 3 and 4. So "before you were born" is fairly accurate.
I agree the light saber duel in ANH is pretty lame. But I guess Obi Wan had no desire to win and Vader was just toying with him.
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Originally Posted by Original Desmond
When Ben Kenobi saves Luke from the Sand people at the beginning, the way he goes on about not hearing the name Obiwan for such a long time seems too unbelievable now.
a) He says before Luke was born, well actually it was at least upto when Luke was born
a) He says before Luke was born, well actually it was at least upto when Luke was born
#16
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Originally Posted by Bandoman
Also, it seemed odd that Darth Vader appeared to be a henchman for Grand Moff Tarkin. Given Vader's close relationship to Palpatine/Sidious, it should have been the other way around.
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First of all I must say I have watched new hope twice right after seeing Sith in the theater, and the connection is so much better than I ever thought.
As far as the points made in here. I agree the not hearing the name in along time did strike me, its not terrible, he probably hasn't heard it since just after Luke was born. The R2 comment had a completely new effect, of course it couldn't have been planned, but Ben looks like he is not telling Luke the truth. So he says I don't remember owning a droid, which of course is true. He hasn't heard the message yet, he is still protecting Luke.
The lightsaber battles are so much better in the prequels, but it makes sense because they are well trained. The final duel in Return of the Jedi is much better. The worst is Ben Vader in New Hope. But I like the explanation below, Ben intends to be selfless and join QuiGon in the force, and Vader could be toying with him. However, the line Ben says about becoming more poweful, is so much better now, actually all the dialog in that scene has so much more meaning
As far as the points made in here. I agree the not hearing the name in along time did strike me, its not terrible, he probably hasn't heard it since just after Luke was born. The R2 comment had a completely new effect, of course it couldn't have been planned, but Ben looks like he is not telling Luke the truth. So he says I don't remember owning a droid, which of course is true. He hasn't heard the message yet, he is still protecting Luke.
The lightsaber battles are so much better in the prequels, but it makes sense because they are well trained. The final duel in Return of the Jedi is much better. The worst is Ben Vader in New Hope. But I like the explanation below, Ben intends to be selfless and join QuiGon in the force, and Vader could be toying with him. However, the line Ben says about becoming more poweful, is so much better now, actually all the dialog in that scene has so much more meaning
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I don't get why people think it's weird he says it's been a long time since he's heard that name? It HAS been a long time..20 years or so isn't a long time?
Light sabre duels.. Obi Wan is old and out of practice or just not trying. Vader while very powerful in the force physically is totally screwed so probably can't move very well so wouldn't be a good 'swordsman' because of physical limitations maybe.
Light sabre duels.. Obi Wan is old and out of practice or just not trying. Vader while very powerful in the force physically is totally screwed so probably can't move very well so wouldn't be a good 'swordsman' because of physical limitations maybe.
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I just finished watching the original trilogy, and at the end of RofJ when Luke cut Vader's hand off I half expected Vader to say "Oh shit! Not again!"
Last edited by Bandoman; 05-29-05 at 04:23 PM.
#20
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Originally Posted by Bandoman
I just finished watching the original trilogy, and at the end of RofJ when Luke cut Vader's hand off I half expected Vader to say "Oh shit! Not again!"
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Originally Posted by The_Infidel
Yeah, and what's with Vader moaning in pain after that? Do robot arms hurt?
Well yeah they do, when Luke got his new hand it was being tested for feeling by sticking a needle in it, he wasn't just shrugging it off.
#22
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It was pretty cool when Obi Wan said, "Annie was a good friend." I always thought he was saying, "And he was a good friend." R2D2 probably looked like a million other droids anyway.
#23
Originally Posted by Bandoman
The lightsaber duels were pathetically inept by prequel standards, when they started using real martial artists to choreograph them. It seemed like Vader and Kenobi were old men who could barely lift their lightsabers. Compared to the duel on Mustafar, the duel on the Death Star was a joke.
#24
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Thinking about it again, my favorite moment in ANH after watching ROTS, is when Obi-Wan hears the message from Leia. It's like everything comes rushing back to him. He sees Leia looks at R2, and everything falls into place. A very awesome moment.
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Which if course makes you wonder...is it really there, or is it that you're wanting to see it? I haven't rewatched it myself, I think I'll do that tonight. I seriously doubt Lucas was directing people to act that way, especially if you consider how hands off he is with directing actors. Nevermind the fact that no one, including him, really knew the story up to that point. So if it really is there, it's a tribute to the sublties of Guiness's performance that he was able to "read between the lines" in the script and apply the proper emotion and body langauge.