duff beer

In an interview i recall when asked on the subject on the directors for the two sequels of Star Wars, Irvin Kershner and Richard Marquand directors of ESB and RoTJ, Lucas said Kershner would do too many takes for something that the first take could have very well worked and that Marquand didn't bring out the feeling and mood into the actors. Now it's no accident that ESB is regarded as the best of the trilogy by a lot because maybe the director wanted it exactly right and by RoTJ, i think the already talented group of actors wouldn't need as much directing as they did the first time.

calhoun07

I take an implication from that that Lucas often settles for first takes? No wonder why the acting in his movies seems a little wooden.

H@mmer

Lucas was and is a huge fan of cinema, especially from the editing side of things that puts more emphasis on juxtoposition of images than on acting

Cygnet74

yeah but Kershner's got a secret weapon, usually referred to as, "the oldest gag in the book".

bboisvert

Someone's been listening to the ESB commentary...

duff beer

Why did he say? I heard he used a lot of cliches in the book, but heck it worked! Also noticed how Vader v. Luke on Cloud City they always exited right and entered left, the atmosphere and mood in that fight was truly artistic. Marquand also directed the greatest finisher to any trilogy. It went out with a bang pulling no stops, but you still have that ESB-esque atmosphere in Jabba's Palace anywho which is real nice.

Doughboy

According to Kershner, too many takes is what resulted in him finally allowing Harrison Ford to ad-lib the "I love you. I know" scene. Which really makes me wonder what another director could've done with the prequels.

caligulathegod

I remember Lucas criticising Kershner saying he was making it better than it had to be.

Fok

Well what ever made ESB great, Lucas missed it in the prequels.

duff beer

Better than it has to be?!

When you take a Saturday matinee premise like Star Wars, a hodge podge of all saturday matinees, and add a director with true artistic talent that cares you get one of those true rarities of what true fantasy/science fiction is. Take the old 1938 color spectacle Adventures of Robin Hood, could have been yet another saturday matinee movie with Eroll Flynn for kids back then, but putting it on technicolor to show the brilliant medieval colors, having the director Michael Curtiz (directed Casablanca) direct this, and such actors as Claude Rains, Basil Rathbone, Eroll Flynn, Olivia De Havilland, and i'll watch these type of movies over such as Citizen Kane. It's what happened to ESB.

caligulathegod

Exactly. There's a reason that Empire is the only one that feels like a real movie rather than just "Star Wars".

cmatherne

We need to be careful what is said on this forum. Lucas will soon have enough money to kill us all. Or watch a Howard the Duck marathon.

.....I know he probably has enough cash to kill us already.

Terrell

Yes, and anyone who has followed Lucas' career knows that is not true in the least!

The infamous comment made in jest by Lucas, that fanboys jumped on have since taken it so seriously that it borders on the silly. Even Kasdan stated in an old interview that Lucas made the comment in jest. Lucas thought the film was great. But he was worried sick that the film wouldn't make any money because of it being dark, and having no beginning or ending. He thought it was so different from the original that it would flop. But Lucas is always a pessimist when it comes to box office.

It's also no accident that he had a brilliant story by Lucas to work with, a great script by Kasdan, and actors that had become much more comfortable in their roles, and a crew that had already worked on one Star Wars film. It's also no accident that Lucas oversaw the effects work and created a lot of the action sequences back at ILM, because Kershner told him he didn't know how to work with effects.

Then again, Kershner's resume is hardly the resume of some genius director. It's littered with mediocre or just plain bad films. He deserves some credit, yet not nearly as much as he tends to get.

Well, let's examine that one. Kershner is the guy who directed one of the worst Bond film, Never Say Never. He directed the godawful Robocop 2. Add in a very mediocre Seaquest DSV movie. Plus a lot of other mediocre to bad TV shows and movies, and I'd hardly call Irvin Kershner a director with true artistic talent. The Eyes of Laura Mars and ESB are the best films he ever made, and take Lucas' story and work with effects and action sequences away from ESB, and it would pale. But people often love to take any credit from Lucas and give it to either Kershner or Kurtz. This is nothing new.

Terrell

By the way, Duff stated ESB is generally regarded as a lot better than ANH or ROTJ. I don't believe it is regarded as a lot better. Slightly better, maybe! ANH, which was directed by Lucas, was the only one to be nominated for Best Picture and Best Director. ANH also received greater critical reception than ESB at the time. That's changed a bit over time. But I'll offer my evidence shortly. In fact, RT.com just had an interesting article.

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/news/c...entryid=197859

This is an article about how the prequel trilogy is actually better reviewed than the original SW trilogy originally was. I'm not holding this article out as fact. I like the originals better. But it does make an interesting point than many of us have never thought of before.

He's absolutely right. Most of the rave reviews for ESB and ROTJ nowadays, come from critics who weren't critics at the time those films were released, because they were young themselves. You want some comments from original 1980 reviews about ESB?

Village Voice:

"Empire is simply a minor entertainment."

New York Times:

"I found myself glancing at my watch almost as often as I did when I was sitting through a truly terrible movie called The Island."

National Review:

"Diverting piece of nonsense."

New Statesmen:

"Far less entertaining than the first!"

New Leader:

"No amount of lightness, however, can lift this movie out of the swamps of Dagobah."

Commonwealth:

"There's no plot."

Monthly Film Bulletin:

"Unpromising!"

Oh, and ESB was originally rated "rotten" based on 1980 reviews. You also have to remember that there were nearly as many critics and reviews when the original SW trilogy was in theaters. Nowadays, there are critics and reviews all over the place.

duff beer

Whoa, Robocop 2 was my favorite from the trilogy, and i saw it was directed by Kershner i knew why!

duff beer

No, you misread, more people like ESB then say ANH or RoTJ

IanH

Movie critics opinions are about as valid as any. The only difference is they get their opinion published and they have a slightly better command of the English language. They also care too much about forming that clever soundbite that'll get them quoted in the newspaper ads. They're Media whores just like any. Some form reviews merely to be contrarian. And way too many are affected by their own political leanings or squeamishness about certain things.

Some of my favorite movies were panned by critics when they first came out but I regard them lightyears ahead of movies that get 80% or better on the Tomatometer.


I give "professional" reviews as much credence as almost any amateur review here at DVDTalk.


And I agree, more people (esp. SW fans) seem to like ESB more than any other. Bravo to their good taste since it agrees with mine.

Terrell

I agree! Like I said, I wasn't holding out that article or the original 1980 reviews as the gospel. I think ANH and ESB are great films, and ROTJ a very good one. But the only one of the original SW films that generally received great critical reception at the time of it's release, was ANH. ESB and ROTJ were decidedly mixed in their reception by critics.

Of course nowadays, critics rave about them.

Agree again! Just think it's interesting how we tend to be nostalgic about the original trilogy, even to the point of putting them on an unreachable pedestal.

Look no further than the king of all quote whores, Peter Travers.

Well, all we can conclusively say is that most SW fans like it the most. We have no evidence suggesting everyone else feels the same. In fact, I'd be willing to bet you if you poll the general movie audience, ROTJ would be listed as the favorite. Doesn't mean it's the best, but that the general public likes it most.

IanH

You're probably right about ROTJ probably being the most popular in a general poll. But what does the general public know about good taste anyways? For most people, movies are just a temporary diversion and not an art form that informs and becomes a part of their lives. Why should I trust what those people think when movies aren't as important to them as they are to me? Popularity contests are for those with the herd mentality anyways. Some people just need to be reassured or told whether they should like something or not, how much they should like it, and for how long.

That's one thing I do love about those SW nerds who dressed up and waited in line for weeks. They don't give a shit what the world thinks and wanted to experience SW the way they wanted to. They were called nerds or dorks. But its still a stiff middle finger to society that wants them to conform; that wants to tell everyone else whats "acceptable" behavior and whats not.


If there's a movie I love I'll stand by it. My own eyes don't lie. Hell, if I believed ROTJ or TPM was the best of the series I'd stand by it.

DthRdrX

I read that Lucas and Kershner remained good friends. It really is a mystery who directed what scenes for ROTJ though. Marquand was said to be bad with special effects.