GeoffK

All.

I recorded a quick review of the film with my first impressions and feelings about it. It's an expectation setting spoiler free review:

http://www.dvdtalkradio.com/StarWars...iewDVDTalk.mp3

I also recorded a 50 min indepth spoiler filled chat between me and one of the writers of the site which will be up on the 18th!! So Stay Tuned

JumpCutz

Ouch.....lowering expectations.

kahuna415

He has his views and I respect them, but I am inclined to wholly disagree with his opinion about the movie. From the feedback so far and my experience with critics, they can be dead on about this one.

Terrell

gk has the right to his opinion. Everyone does. He didn't like the film, and there's nothing wrong with that. The only feeling I get from his review is that he was already too disappointed by the first two to judge this one fully on it's own merits. But I can see the difficulty of not judging the entire trilogy.

The film is getting very good reviews so far, including from many haters of the first two. But it's still early and I'm sure there will be plenty of negative reviews. After all, it's a Star Wars films. Heck, even David Ansen of Newsweek gave the film a positive review, and that's a shocker. The only opinion that matters is yours.

The best thing for people who dislike or hate the prequels is to stick to the originals and forget the new films.

UmbrellaAl

wow, He just cut lucas' balls off and fed them to him! I think that is the worst review i have ever heard.

I'll have to disagree with the guy that episode II was better than I, II was pure crap... I was atleast a little exciting. From the looks of things this one could live up to my expectations, however the things i saw prior to EPII gave me the same impressions. I'm starting to worry about this film, and maybe thats a good thing because i find that when i enter a movie with high expectations i am almost always disapointed. Perhaps i will enjoy III a little more now that i have somewhat diminished expectations.

kantboy

Didn't he LOVE XXX? Weird...

Terrell

No Jar-Jar, no Jake Lloyd, no fart/poop jokes, no "Yippee" and "now this is podracing", no podrace announcer, etc. That makes II better than I by default. Hell, little to no Jar-Jar makes II better by default.

The Cow

Seriously... cut back on the "you know", "you know", "you know".

(I guess that's feedback on the review)

chanster

All this review says is that GK can't be moved anymore by movies, which he admits. I haven't seen ROTS and thought the first two stunk, but his review starts off by saying "I consume movies now" - thats just the wrong attitude to have. Sorry, as a kid, of course you are moved by movies and now that you spend your whole life watching/peddling movies, the magic is gone.

I don't expect ROTS to move me, I expect a good time. I couldn't stand Phantom thought Clones was bearable but I expect Ep. 3 to be a good time.

GeoffK

Thanks for the feedback guys. To respond to a few of the comments:

- While I'm really negative about severl aspects of the film (especially the script, dialogue and acting), I still do say that its an enjoyable space action film. So I'm not totally panning it here, just not holding it up on a pedistal.

- While I say EPII wasn't as bad as EP I, I don't rave in ANY way about EPII. To me it was a slightly less painful experience (save for the waterfall scene).

- I didn't "Love" xXx, I enjoyed it for what it was. A big dumb action film. For me Star Wars EP3 is a big space action film with a number of flaws. If it were another film... not Star Wars I probably would have been more forgiving..

- You Know... I think you're right

- I actually DO still 'experience' films. It's just rare now adays to see films that do that. More and more films are built to be 'consumed'. Read my sundance report for a list of films that got me off my feet - http://www.dvdtalk.com/features/003687.html

I'm sure you guys will enjoy the 50 mins talk between me and DVD Talk reviewer Scott Weinberg. We really hash out all the issues and talk on the pros and cons of the series. I'm holding on posting it till the movie is out as we have some HUGE spoilers in our talk....But I think it's a great example of how 2 people can have different perspectives on the same film and really respect eachother's position... I'm sure you'll enjoy it.

Thanks for listening

wmansir

Thanks for the review and post Geoffrey. I think it helped me adjust my expectations, which were getting a bit inflated after all the rosy press of late. Will I ever learn? Of course, I could totally disagree with you and love it entirely, but even so it's usually best not to go in with high expectations.

I am also looking forward to the 50 minute discussion. Unfortunately, I have a feeling I will come down near your camp when I view the film since it seems we share many of the same opinions on the previous films, but you never know.

Terrell

The key is to form an honest opinion about this movie and this movie alone, and not let disappointment from the previous two films creep into that opinion. If you can't view and judge this film on it's own, and give it a fair chance, then why bother with seeing it?

Now, after you form an honest opinion on this film, then you can judge this new trilogy as a whole. But a single film needs to be judged on it's own merits. Though I suspect what I've been hearing in a couple of reviews is probably true. If someone is disappointed in and jaded from the first two films, then it's more than likely they won't like this one regardless of it's quality. People in this position should move onto something else, because the magic of Star Wars has already died in them. That being said, so far there are quite a few critics who didn't like the first two, but loved this one. So who knows.

Just a few thoughts.

chanster

I am old enough to remember seeing Empire in the theaters but I barely remember it. I do remember my experience in seeing ROTJ though, and when Vader decides to chuck the emperor down the tubes and then is unmasked, I really do remember being real sad/happy at his final words. Then when you see his ghost appear alongside Obi-Wan and Yoda, that was nice. So I guess I was moved for a 6 year old. (On a side note, I was really pissed when Hayden replaced the Shaw but whatever)

Being 22 years older, I probably won't that moved by the movie, since I know what is going to happen and its not a shock or anything. Although its easy to write it off as age, I think it has to do with the lack of caring for the character as seen in the prequels.

Ep. 1 Anakin - who cares?
Ep. 2 Anakin - bratty teenager. Don't see much that great about him
Ep. 3 Anakin - ??
EP. 4 Vader - Complete Badass
Ep. 5 Vader - Bigger Badass - but there is some confusion at the end - he is probably lying etc.
Ep. 6 Vader - Vader as badass breaks down. Looks more like a sympathetic figure and then at the end, redeems himself (at least partly)

To tell you the truth the power in descriptions of Anakin are mostly through Obi-Wan' s speeches in ANH and ROTJ. Thats what made the OT infiintely better than what we have seen in the prequels of Anakin. He comes off this great man, a man who lost a battle to control his impulses. Will we see it Ep.3? Maybe, but it is hard to top the open ended, sorrowful ruminations of Obi-Wan in Ep. 4 and 6.

Terrell

Well, it's funny you say that, because it reinforces a comment that Lucas made. What he said was that many, if not most fans basically wanted Episode III, to be Episode I. From there, they wanted Episode II and III to be suited Vader running around killing everyone. Of course he was being vague, but I think he's right where a lot of fans are concerned. But trying to make millions of fans happy, who've imagined these stories for nearly two decades, is practically impossible. Even moreso when you consider that everyone imagined them in their own special way.

But he thinks in the end it's far better to tell the story of a little boy. Then take him through each phase of his life. You can argue with some of the execution, but I think Lucas made the right choice. I didn't want to see a badass Anakin wreaking havoc, then fall and wreak more havoc. I wanted to see this little boy grow, in a sense. He portrayed Anakin as a human being, powerful, but with all the insecurities and faults we humans had. I'm glad he did. To me it's better than telling the story of some faultless, super badass.

chanster

Actually thats not what I am saying at all, but thanks for generalizing.

Ideally I would like to see prequels to show why viewers should care about Anakin. I don't care about Vader going around and killing people that much. I do care that Anakin be shown as a good person, a respected leader who is corrupted by power.

Ep. 1 main problem is that it starts way too early, so there is a complete disconnect between little Anakin and the Anakin we see in EP. 2 and 3. In order to make up time, we fast forward 10 years to Ep. 2 and then Ep. 3 seems like it occurs 3 years after Clones.

So maybe I will be proved wrong, and ROTS will deliver the goods. I just don't see the point to show Anakin as a little kid, its a waste of time and the span of time needed to ensure that Anakin is the right age by Ep. 3 makes any of the events in Ep. 1 seem not important to the general part of the story. I could be wrong though

Terrell

That's a legitimate criticism. But Lucas felt it would be more powerful and heartbreaking in the end, to show him as an innocent little kid, snatched from his mothers arm.

Well, I've heard critics make that argument boths ways, that ROTS is so much better than TPM and AOTC, that it makes them irrelevant. But I've also heard some claim it sheds new light on the first two, and helps them see those films in a better light, and they get what Lucas was trying to do.

I still say that the story presented in the prequels is a very good one, and if everything was executed brilliantly, we wouldn't be arguing about how old Anakin started out. Take out Jar Jar, fart jokes, hire a great screenwriter, improve a few of the performances, etc, and we'd probably be raving about them right now. As it is, I think they're both pretty good films with some truly great moments, and some really bads ones that drag them down.

I still say it all starts with a great screenplay. That's where Lucas is weakest. I honestly don't see his direction as the problem. His screenwriting and his penchant for silly, corny humor.

wmansir

I think, even before seeing EPIII, you can ask yourself: Has Lucas succeeded so far? Do I really care about that little boy? Do I feel a connection going into EpIII?

The reason I bring this up is because someone I know said the casual SW fan should read 'Labyrinth of Evil' before seeing EpIII because it will give you much more perspective into Anakin's state of mind than just watching the movies. That got me thinking about how much of a colossal waste of time the prequels have been in regards to developing a relationship between the viewer and Anakin. That should have been the primary purpose of the entire first two movies, and I can't help but feel it has failed miserably in that regard, at least with me. Of course, others feel differently.

And that of course feeds directly into Terrell's suggestion of judging EpIII "on it's own", which is difficult at best. Whether or not the first two movies engaged you in the story and the characters is paramount to how you perceive the final chapter. Not because of bitterness, or disappointment, but just because of the viewer's state of mind.

Terrell

Possibly, but as a single film, it can and needs to be judged on it's own merits, or lack thereof. Bagging ROTS for flaws that were present in TPM and AOTC is totally unflair. That's why I say, judge ROTS on it's own merits. Then after you judge it, you can judge the entire prequel trilogy.

Yep! But the funny thing is, quite a few critics who didn't feel that connection and didn't like those films, really like Episode III. So I guess each person has his own criteria. I just hate for Episode III to get slammed merely because of flaws or disappointments in TPM and AOTC. It can't be blamed for that, because you can't change perception.

latenight

I'm old enough to remember seeing all the original SW movies in the theatre. Maybe its just age but the two newer Sw films are a complete joke. I found no redeming features to them at all. Therefore I have no high expectations for the final film. The two things that makes me think these newer films are lousy and its not my age are;

1) my kids and their freinds are about the same age as I was when the original ones came out. They do not have the same passion for the newer films as we did for the original ones.

2) whats with the merchandising trash, it's on everything, next they will come out with SW toilet paper. Enough is enough!!

GuessWho

Because (and also I thought about this after listening to GK) the original trilogy was new and different. it opened up a whole new world to us and a whole new potential in going to the movies. before SW... films were adult and dark... Godfather... Taxi Driver.... Death Wish.... hell, the biggest popcorn film of the 70s up to this point was Rocky, and the good guy still didn't win!!!!

SW was a breath of fresh air. We saw new effcts, actually smiled in the theater, and were in awe.


Today, a new popcorn flick with super duper effects starts every other week. The awe factor is gone and we just have to accept that--not much can surprise us anymore.

I felt listening to GK that he was reviewing the lack of an "awe experience," not reviewing the movie itself.

Tafellappen

What about Jaws?

Terrell

Well, I think GuessWho's point is that during that time right after the Vietnam war, most of everything in Hollywood was downbeat and depressing. A lot of disaster movies during that time. Then Star Wars came out and it was upbeat. It was also unlike anything we had ever seen at that point. It was told and edited in such a dynamic way. It changed perceptions at the time, and the movies to follow.

He's also right that this is a different time and place, and expecting the prequels to duplicate and live up to what the originals did, is unrealistic. Blockbusters with huge, impressive effects, incredible action, and stunning visuals are left and right nowadays. So it's impossible for the prequels to wow us the way the originals did. They can still wow us, but not to that level. Besides, we've already seen lightsabers, Vader, and all the strange things in Star Wars. So Lucas can't do much new that we haven't already seen.

GeoffK

I've updated my review

wmansir

This is Bull****! The original review was classic, now in a display of his inflated ego Geoffrey has released the so-called 'updated' version.

Seriously, the new review sounds much better and definitely more polished and professional. You did a good job staying focused on the third film, setting up your approach to the film, and communicating where and how you felt specific areas were lacking. I do like that the original had an informal, gut reaction to the film and trilogy, but then again with the new review I didn't feel like crawling into my computer and strangling you after the 7th "you know" in one sentence.

Superboy

Well, i've said much my opinon about the SW series before, but here goes again:

SW doesn't awe audiences anymore the way it used to. Movies have evolved since then, and so have viewers. The Matrix was really the premier movie of my generation (18-25 year olds). The Matrix, which managed to out-Star-Wars Star Wars (which itself was out-Matrixed by X2) captured some of the same magic that Star Wars did: not a lot of it brand-new, but put together better than anything before or since.

Furthermore, there's the influence of the internet. There's no more mystery; very little of the film has been kept secret, even up until now. I mean how different would audiences have reacted if they knew the end to ESB?

Again though, this is the end of Star Wars as far as the core franchise goes. In many ways the problem that I think most viewers will find with ROTS is that it will be a very by-the-numbers movie. Huge space battle, lightsabers galore, and Anakin--->Vader. Entertaining to be sure, but this isn't a franchise that really needs and closure - Empire is probably the only movie that left anyone hanging.