Home of the Underdogs: site dead?
03-18-05, 08:24 PM
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Home of the Underdogs: site dead?
Home of the Underdogs has been a fantastic site for abandonware for, I dunno, at least six years - probably longer.
Recently, it's fallen into disrepaur. Updates, once weekly or better, slipped to once per month, then once per six weeks. The last update was on January 2nd, with no word since then.
In the last few weeks, the forum went offline - clicking the link only raised some weird PHP error.
Today, the site has 404'd.
This sucks. Anyone know what's going on here? Discussion groups?
- David Stein
Recently, it's fallen into disrepaur. Updates, once weekly or better, slipped to once per month, then once per six weeks. The last update was on January 2nd, with no word since then.
In the last few weeks, the forum went offline - clicking the link only raised some weird PHP error.
Today, the site has 404'd.
This sucks. Anyone know what's going on here? Discussion groups?
- David Stein
03-19-05, 12:10 AM
#2
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
That sucks if they're gone. It was a cool (although somewhat illegal) site, but where else are you going to find System Shock 2 or Duckman at 2am in the morning? I just got to play Snatcher for the SegaCD for the first time this week because I found it on their site.
03-19-05, 12:35 AM
#3
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Originally Posted by Joe Molotov
That sucks if they're gone. It was a cool (although somewhat illegal) site...
HotU was (hopefully, still is) abandonware. A copyright owner can't sue for copyright infringement if they no longer sell the work, because they're not being damaged in any way. It's not black-and-white, but it's pretty clear.
- David Stein
03-19-05, 02:29 AM
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It is pretty black-and-white, actually -- if it's copyrighted, you can't legally offer it for download without the copyright holder's permission. It doesn't matter if it's been out of print for two years or fifteen years, so long as it's under copyright it's against the law, no matter how silly it may seem. And the fact that they couldn't recover damages doesn't mean a copyright owner can't sue, just that there's no compelling reason for them to do so -- if for some bizarre reason a publisher decided to go after HOTU knowing full well they'd be entitled to little or no damages, they'd still have no problem obtaining a judgment against HOTU (the fact that the site is not U.S.-based would presumably complicate this, I'm just speaking hypothetically here). Just because something doesn't result in damages doesn't mean copyright ceases to apply; copyright law is fairly ironclad and "abandonware" doesn't fall into any special exempt category (i.e. fair use). The legal issues are boiled down pretty nicely here.
03-19-05, 02:50 AM
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Thats sad. I browsed the site just the other day. I had a yearning to play Might & Magic III. I even figured out what my party would consist of before I realized that the game was unavailable anywhere (that I know of). I have disks for the game, but I don't use a disk drive, and they are in storage 1000 miles away...
Even if they are bust in terms of uploading software, I hope they stay online. They are a glut of information about classic games. I love the hall of belated fame. I love searching up old favorite game companies and reading up on their demise. I love that for every game they list, they also list 2 or more similar games.
Even if they are bust in terms of uploading software, I hope they stay online. They are a glut of information about classic games. I love the hall of belated fame. I love searching up old favorite game companies and reading up on their demise. I love that for every game they list, they also list 2 or more similar games.
03-19-05, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan Average
It is pretty black-and-white, actually -- if it's copyrighted, you can't legally offer it for download without the copyright holder's permission.
I agree that the author still owns the copyright - copyrights don't expire through non-use. But consider how that copyright might be enforced.
First, the author has the initial option of (a) sending a cease-and-desist notice and (b) filing a lawsuit. Option (a) will end the matter immediately, because HotU takes the download link offline.
If the author opts for (b), then the author has to file a complaint with a request for a remedy. That remedy can be either (a) an injunction, or (b) damages. Again, option (a) will end the matter immediately, because HotU will accede to the request, and the case will be moot. And option (b) is basically unavailable, because the copyright owner can't demonstrate any damages. At most, nominal damages could be awarded - not exactly a huge risk. (And a court is likely to be unwilling to award even those, given the more appropriate remedy of an injunction and HotU's openly cooperative attitude.)
(I don't mean to turn this into a legal dispute, but I've spent the last eight weeks plowing through a copyright text, so I'm feeling interested in the topic and confident about my position.)
- David Stein
03-19-05, 01:34 PM
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If the author opts for (b), then the author has to file a complaint with a request for a remedy. That remedy can be either (a) an injunction, or (b) damages. Again, option (a) will end the matter immediately, because HotU will accede to the request, and the case will be moot. And option (b) is basically unavailable, because the copyright owner can't demonstrate any damages. At most, nominal damages could be awarded - not exactly a huge risk. (And a court is likely to be unwilling to award even those, given the more appropriate remedy of an injunction and HotU's openly cooperative attitude.)
03-19-05, 04:35 PM
#12
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Originally Posted by sfsdfd
Yup, back up. No updates, and forum still broken...
- David Stein
- David Stein
03-19-05, 06:35 PM
#13
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It seems to me like offering the copywright owner the chance to "send a notice to cease and desist" is a bit dishonest. Obviously, they're hoping their site stays under the radar and they don't get caught. If they were sincere, they would track down the copywright holder and get their permission ahead of time. It's like coming across a bicycle that is unsecured in a public park and riding off with it, and justifying that it's okay because the owner can simple tell you to "cease and desist" at any time...and if they don't...it's their own fault.
I should point out that personally, I don't have any qualms with people downloading abandonware. However, there are other sides to the story. I remember reading on the forums of a popular gaming company where somebody asked if they planned to offer their older games (which hadn't been sold for years) for free download. A representative from the company came on and posted that if they did that and everybody played their older games, they would have less time to play their newer games in the same genre. Other developers have taken an opposite approach, offering old games for free in order to promote the sequel.
I do think copywright does need to expire much much faster for software than it does for other media, simply because the technology becomes obsolete so quickly. It's absurd that the same laws apply equally to books and computer games.
I should point out that personally, I don't have any qualms with people downloading abandonware. However, there are other sides to the story. I remember reading on the forums of a popular gaming company where somebody asked if they planned to offer their older games (which hadn't been sold for years) for free download. A representative from the company came on and posted that if they did that and everybody played their older games, they would have less time to play their newer games in the same genre. Other developers have taken an opposite approach, offering old games for free in order to promote the sequel.
I do think copywright does need to expire much much faster for software than it does for other media, simply because the technology becomes obsolete so quickly. It's absurd that the same laws apply equally to books and computer games.
