splattii

I just posted this in another thread, but thought I'd start a new thread myself. I'm curious if anyone has an idea of HD-DVD Vs Blu Ray?? It seems that for some reason (maybe Mac support) HD-DVD is getting more support. Is it the name and the fact people see the words "HD" and get happy? lol. I hope to hell they have both standards, especially since I've heard Toshiba is already shipping Blu Ray drives in their lastest laptops in Japan....

Blu-Ray is vasty superior with 25GB single layer and 50GB dual layer discs. They also have three layer hybrid dics with two 4.7 GB DVD layers and one 25GB HD layer. This is what they have now. There are 100GB four layer discs in the works too and we may even see 200GB eight layers discs in the future. Meanwhile HD-DVD struggles with 30GB. Oh, and in addition to MPEG-2, Blu-Ray supports the same MPEG-4 codecs as HD-DVD. No one seems to get this fact nor the fact that Blu-Ray discs cost the same to manufacture as HD-DVD discs these days. It seems everyone's info is just a bit out of date. The tables have turned. The only thing going for HD-DVD is the name. Yes, I will admit that sadly sometimes this is enough when dealing with the average consumer.

jaeufraser

I don't know. A this point in time, I don't think the average consumer is going to be the one buying Blu-ray or HD-DVD anyway. In the end though, who supports what will be more important than just the techinical specs, so I think which titles and which studios are supporting what could very well be a bigger deciding factor. I believe, at this point, HD-DVD does have more support.

chipmac

So what is it about HD DVD that is less powerful? So BR discs have more storage capacity but they both use the same video and audio codecs don't they? if this is true than there isn't anything less powerful about HD DVD since the discs will provide the same A/V quality as BR.

Yocke

What? So you're claiming that bitrate has nothing to do with the quality of the picture?

darkside

How much bitrate do you need? Are you telling me a 30GB disc can't hold an entire film? So we may have to get some 2 disc HD-DVD sets to get all the extras. Isn't that what we are buying up and loving now with DVD.

I'm not buying into either of these until there is a clear winner, but I honestly don't see that HD-DVD is a completely inferior format either.

OldBoy

yipee...another HD-DVD thread!

TomOpus

No kidding... maybe we need a sub-forum

DthRdrX

HDdvdtalk.com?

spartanstew

No, bluraytalk.com



Stew

Eric F

Stuck with it? Don't buy it.

nightmaster

I was thinking the saaaaame thing.

chipmac

I didn't say that. I said that having less storage space doesn't make it a less powerful format. But since you bring it up I don't think bitrate has as much to do with PQ as the quality of the master elements used, the compression choices and the encoding process. Just look at the many arguments over SuperBit and non-SuperBit. SuperBit discs are supposed to have the best PQ because they remove everything except the film and soundtrack but there are many discs from other studios that offer just as good and sometimes better PQ and use some of the disc space on extras. Bitrate is only one factor in what the PQ will be. So all things being equal between HD DVD and BR discs except the storage capacity the PQ should be the same.

Michael Corvin

Wasn't there an article posted in one of these dozen threads stating why HD-DVD was a superior format despite the disc size?

hmurchison

Not that you have to but discussion are generally better when you at least give the pretense of impartiality. Here's what I mean.

<emphasis added>

While more space is great in a computing environment I have a hard time quantifying your "vastly" comment. In the context of Hollywood I believe that they are more keen on being able to fit your common feature film onto one disc and that said disc should be as cheap as possible. I like the Blu Ray size advantage but do I think his is a big draw to Hollywood. Not really. BR is likely to cost more money for that privledge. The question is, will Hollywood pay?

Yes and we heard that FMD discs would do the same like 4 years ago. Go search for articles from 4-5 years ago and look at all the grandiose press releases and prognostications of great technology that doesn't pan out. Do I think Sony can do this..yes I do but that doesn't mean I believe it's going to be feasible in the market. I'd prefer to look at concrete deliverables rather than "xxx company might have this product in a few years" many of us have been burned on that one too much.


"Struggles"? Man you're trying too hard to make your case for Blu Ray. Toshiba/Nec will have access to better optical tech. I don't expect them to sit on 30GB for ever. Where did you get the information about Blu Ray costing the same to manufacture? HD-DVD can be used on todays production machinery with little modification. Please provide a source here that isn't Sony or a BR partner.

How are we going to take you serious here? You're obviously pitching BR and then pointing a finger at the "clueless" consumer. Nay, I think this race is even taken from within the context of providing HD feature films. Computing needs would lean heavily towards BR.

Summary:

I'm not championing any of these new formats. They are more similar than they are disimilar so promoting one as superior over the other basically makes you look like a fool. Blu Rays claim to fame is larger optical capacity. Yes it'll hold more data but VC1 and AVC codecs have a sweet spot of about 8-15Mbps. Simply cranking up the bitrate isn't going to appreciably improve video quality. Cost of manufacturing is still a ??. I'm not convinced that BR is going to be as cheap. Sony like to say that costs "will" come down but what they seem to mean is if they are producing millions and millions of discs. I don't think production companies are buying into that.

I expect to have both machines until a universal device is made.

Josh Z

"I already asked this question and got answers, so now I'm going to ask it again."

If that's your idea of good forum ettiquette, then you deserve to get the same answer you got the last time:


That would be pretty surprising considering that Toshiba is in the HD-DVD camp. The Blu-Ray manufacturers are:

Hitachi
JVC
LG
Mitsubishi
Panasonic
Philips
Pioneer
Samsung
Sharp
Sony
Zenith

DthRdrX

I "think" the Blue-Ray format and Hd-dvd will probably be very similar in quality, yet as already mentioned, we won't know until we see actual production hardware, something that is still lacking by both sides of the issue so far.

Blue-Ray's larger storage space sounds great in theory but I have a creeping fear it will be used more towards throwing everything on 1 disc instead of two. Knowing Sony I'd bet they will also continue with the Suberbit releases a few months after the special feature release.

The real comparison I'm waiting for is picture difference with D-theater tapes. I'm sure the d-vhs format will die within the next few months as the releases have been scaled back but it would suck if the new formats are not as good in the PQ department.

postpunk

Came across this, and this in the morning paper. Enjoy.

Cocopugg

I would hope Blu-Ray or HD-DVD would allow us to backup all our regular DVD titles to the new discs. This way we can play 10 or more movies on 1 single disc...It would allow alot more movies on Blu-Ray or HD-DVD jukeboxes. I wonder if this technology will be feesible?

Big Worms

Thanks for the links.

pdinosaur

Mac support? not that i pay much attention, but is apple backing HD-DVD?

maybe you're just reacting to the 'year of HD?'

i agree, you're completely biased here. prolly a member of the bluray promotion group.

pdinosaur

ahh. you know my dream!

no, you won't. you'd be copying. sigh.

now the studios might do it.....

Cocopugg

In that case, my alternative dream would be to have a 1 million gig hard drive where all my movies could live on LOL! Storage is more important to me than anything...Would be great to get rid of all my jukeboxes in favor of just 1 hard drive.

Centurion

I think the early adopters are going to be the ones that suffer from this "next generation DVD" war. This is pretty much true for any new electronic device/technology. As things are not completely established and prices are almost always at a premium.

Think about the guy who has to have the latest gadget on the market everytime something is released or the one at the electronics store who buys-into the sales pitch and picks up a new player. Some of these people will sooner or later realize that they can't play all the movies on their new toy. For example, if Joe Sixpack tries to play the latest version of The Lord of the Rings Trilogy in all of its high-definition glory on his Blu-Ray player, he will be in for a big surprise.

Ultimately, I think it will boil down to cost. If the industry cannot come up with an agreed upon 'standard', money will be the deciding factor. The more expensive gadgets in history have really only been a niche realm for the enthusiast and/or the wealthy and do not represent the mainstream, hence, will not last.

Of course, I can speak only for myself.
I will be playing the waiting game and enjoying DVDs in the meantime.

mzupeman2

Even though DVD's have been around for a long time now, it's still pretty fresh to society as a whole. I don't know if a majority of people will buy into this for quite some time.

ThatGuamGuy

Why would a guy who has to have the latest gadget on the market only have one and not the other? And since when is Joe Sixpack that kind of guy anyway?