Thrush

http://tv.zap2it.com/tveditorial/tve_main/1,1002,271|89019|1|,00.html

Sounds a lot like the boxing reality series in the works "The Contender".

Perhaps the UFC wouldn't be in such bad shape. If they stopped featuring Dinosaurs in their main events.

SexualPudding

The UFC features "dinosaurs" in their main events, like Ken Shamrock, because he is one of the few fighters they have that the general public has at least heard of.

As a really big UFC and MMA fan, I am really looking forward to this show. Not the show in and of itself, per se, but rather what the increased exposure can do for the UFC as a whole. Their have seemingly been a couple times in the last few years where it looked like MMA was about to break really big in this country, but it didn't quite happen because the word just wasn't getting out on a large enough scale. With this new show, they will at least get into a ton more homes than they ever had the ability to do.

If more people start buying PPV's, that equals more money. More money= having to rely less on tired, past their prime "name" fighters so much in desperate attempts to scrape together whatever buys they can.

MrBob

Problem with the UFC PPV's are that they are alienating hardcore fans with medicore production values, and instead of showing prelims, they choose to show useless filler or just quit brocasting with a lot of time left on the PPV block.

I'm curious as to what kind of fighters are they going to choose.

KnightLerxst

This could help MMA gain more mainstream acceptance. I am all for it...especially if one of the episodes focuses on the mighty power of Joe Son's cup!!!

Draven

I enjoyed UFC for awhile, but I got tired of every match degrading into grappling on the ground. The years that I watched (in the 90s) you never really saw any martial arts beyond grappling and some kickboxing.

That being said, I'm not interested in this show.

Abranut

What you are referring to is the gradual evolution of the sport. The novelty of seeing Sumo vs. Kick Boxing, Kung Fu vs. Wrestling soon wore off, and fighters had to adopt a mixed martial arts style to remain competitive. This blend of kick boxing/muay thay/brazillian jiu-jitsu/wrestling, has really become the ultimate form of fighting. It's the combination of styles that the other styles couldn't really compete with, thus the term Mixed Martial Arts (MMA).

KnightLerxst

Too bad. MMA has really evolved over the years into an amazing sport, a physical chess match if you will.

Personally I love the ground game and I would rather watch a match that stays on the ground, to me submissions are more interesting than knock outs.

wordtoyamotha

I would love to see this series. And I'll second others thoughts that MMA is becoming HUGE!

Draven

Interesting.

Considering that at the time I was heavily involved in Tae Kwon Do, I really wanted to see some "high flying" techniques, not grappling. I'll probably check out the latest stuff that's happening.

MrBob

My advice is watch The Pride fighting championships. It is just better all around than the UFC. The fights are better, the fighters are better, the atmospher is better (as the Japanese both understand and appreciate ground fighting). Wheras the UFC is lucky to draw 10,000 people in attendence, Pride regularly pulls in 30-60,000 people.

Plus you get to see guys like this:



That is Vanderlei Silva the #1 Lt Heavy in the world after he adminstered another brutal beatdown.



This happened in the last pride the guy in the Gi is Yoshida, and he is an olympic gold medalist, and the guy he is fighting is Mark Hunt a K-1 kickboxer making his mma debut. Hunt did suprisingly well in defeat, because yoshida is a bad ass on the ground.



The big Guy is Semmy Schilt, and the Little one is Sergei Kharitonov. But Sergei eventually won in a pretty brutal fashion.



and the last pictures are of Kevin Randleman and Fedor. Fedor is by far the #1 heavyweight, the guy is a monster. He wasn't even phased by the throw and went on to defeat Kevin about a minute later.

Original Desmond

Will be a cool series

UFC is lagging well behind Pride

You do need to be somewhat educated to enjoy the grappling chess match

Nog v Herring in Pride Critical Countdown was a recent example of an awesome ground fighting match with Nog trying every submission in the book, Herring escaping until Nog got Herring in the coolest sub called an "Anaconda Choke"

Thrush

Throwing over the hill punching bags in the ring just for name value doesn't help the sport. Obviously it hasn't worked that well either when you look at the sad shape that the UFC is in. Financially they are in trouble. BJ Penn left because they couldn't pay him, and IMO he was their best fighter. I agree that the sport needs exposure in the states and maybe the show will accomplish that to some degree.




I love The Pride. If you want to see the best of what MMA has to offer its the only way to go. Fewer restrictions. The talent of even the second tier fighters is easily superior than what the UFC has. There are few UFC fighters that could even compete in Pride.

KnightLerxst

Fedor is a machine. I can not believe that slam didn't even phase him an the he goes on to

Pride is superior in my opinion...better competition, better production, and better fighters.

Watching

MrBob

Here gifs that were posted in the sports forum.

Randleman-Fedor:



Jackson-Arona (Jackson is the man)

MahatmaPetey

i nearly shat myself when Rampage slammed Arona. I've been waiting a long time to see someone knock him the **** out.

good to see a MMA thread here.

SexualPudding

I never said that throwing over the hill guys in the ring for name value alone was good for the sport. As a diehard MMA fan, it annoys me just as much as anyone else.

However, it is a reality, especially in events that are held in the States. Let's face it. The UFC desparately tries to scrape together however many buys they possibly can show to show. Instead of having a long term plan, they seem to haphazardly throw a card together from show to show in an effort for short term gain. They don't believe they can do it any other way currently, because the other avenues they have attempted to go (having Matt Hughes headline two different events) have failed pretty bad. Granted, Hughes is a great fighter, one of the best pound for pound in MMA, but he doesn't sell well.

As much as Shamrock is over the hill, they can at least bank on him for a solid buyrate at this point. It does short change the hardcore fan, but their bottom line is what is most important. Besides, Pride does the exact same thing to an extent. I will say that on the whole, Japanese fans are much more educated about the sport than US fans, but you can't tell me that Pride isn't guilty of constantly featuring Japanese "tomato can" types in a lot of their matches just to appease the local crowd. Some of them are decent fighters in their own right, but many are also unworthy of being there, in my opinion.

In addition, they seem to have lately developed a big crush on gimmick matches that are better suited for pro wrestling. Giant Silva? LA Giant? "Sentoryu" Henry Miller? K-1 fighters Stefan Leko and Mark Hunt all of a sudden fighting in MMA? Come on, everyone with an inkling of a clue about the sport knew those K-1 guys would be like a fish out of water against traditional MMA guys. It is nothing more than a big spectacle in a lot of cases, and while that is all well and good, you can't honestly say it is any better than the UFC putting Ken Shamrock on a fight card.

MahatmaPetey

yea, Cro Cop really sucks at MMA...and Mark Hunt did very well in his debut.

but UFC and Pride are about equal in their mismatches/freakshows. The only difference is that Pride's tomato cans are generally japanese, UFC just has american tomato cans. Though over the past couple years Pride has been a lot better in their matchmaking.

Pride = Giant Silva, Henry Miller, LA Giant, Shungo Oyama vs. Cro Cop, Kanehara vs. Cro Cop, etc.

UFC = Kimo, Tank Abbott, Wes Sims, Jay Hieron, Tiki, Tito vs Ken, Gan McGee getting a title shot, etc.

SexualPudding

CroCop is an exception, but if you really think about it, he really isn't all that great of an MMA fighter. What he is is a devastating striker with a great sprawl. Those two alone make him extremely dangerous in any MMA bout, but he is not a complete well rounded MMA fighter at all. His ground game has improved, but he is still ripe for the picking for anyone that can get him on the ground. Now his chin has been called into question because he got knocked out by Kevin Randleman, a wrestler who has never been known for his stand up. Yeah, CroCop just got caught, and it happens to almost everyone, but it still happened.

I really don't intend for this to become a Pride vs. UFC thing either, because it is a tired and endless debate. I don't care about the organization, I just like to see good fights, and both the UFC and Pride have them. I think Pride definitely has a deeper, more talented overall roster, but their matchups are often a joke, even more so than some the UFC throw out there. Yes, tomato cans in the UFC are American as opposed to Japanese, but at least they usually evenly match them with a fighter of equal ability so that an entertaining fight is produced. You will rarely see one of the UFC's elite against some scrub. Gan McGee getting a title shot against Tim Sylvia proved to be a joke, but at the time, McGee hadn't been exposed and was thought to be a better fighter after landing a lucky shot on Pedro Rizzo's schnoz and hanging with Josh Barnett the way he did. Meanwhile, in Pride, you often see things like CroCop vs. Dos Caras Jr. and Rampage Jackson vs. Minowa.

MrBob

And now to get this thread back on track:

http://fcfighter.com/ufc-spike-040630.htm

UFC Gets a Spike with Cable Reality Show
By Loretta Hunt

After three and a half years of planning, pitching, and praying, the UFC television show has finally become a reality in more ways than one. Male-centric cable network Spike TV has ordered 13 episodes of The Ultimate Fighter, a reality series that will provide a behind-the-scenes look at the development and training of the next wave of Ultimate Fighters, which will culminate with a live final episode featuring single mixed martial arts bouts in four different weight classes. The series is scheduled to premiere in January 2005.

"I hate calling it a reality show," commented UFC president Dana White while on route to the show's first official casting session today in Los Angeles, "because reality shows, to me, are goofy. This is going to be much, much better than a reality show."

The concept of the series, according to White, will focus around twenty finalists, to be determined in the next month from the stacks of videotapes received from hundreds of aspiring fighters in the last month. On these tapes, interested candidates were asked to provide a sample of their fights, a few minutes demonstrating their personality, and a brief bio. Those to make the cut will represent either the welterweight, middleweight, light-heavyweight, or heavyweight divisions. It remains to be determined how the twenty will be distributed between the four weight classes.

The twenty potentials will be designated onto two separate teams, each lead by a professional mixed martial artist who will serve as head coach. The dual groups will train and live together for the three month duration, periodically squaring off against one another in a weekly elimination process. White confirms that two Las Vegas residences have already been procured for the two teams. In addition, Zuffa Sports Entertainment has constructed the UFC Training Center, a 10,000 square foot facility fully equipped to train today's mixed martial artist. Housing the authentic UFC Octagon in its down time, the gym also features a matted grappling area, a boxing ring, weight machines, as well as locker rooms. It is in these settings that the cameras will roll and hopefully capture future stars in the making to grace the sport.

With the stage set, White and the UFC are now seeking their cast of characters, and the chosen ones may hardly be of the novice variety. "We're looking for the top guys in the country now," White explains. "These are the best of the best that never made it to the big show." Of those being considered: Denis Kang, a Canadian middleweight 12-7-2 in professional action; Josh Koscheck, a Division I wrestler and recent AKA recruit who sports a 4-0 pro record, and Nate Quarry, a Team Quest protégé currently at 5-1 professionally. These three were among a small group of fighters flown into Las Vegas the week of UFC 48, after White and his team had previewed their appetizing application tapes. While there, these leadiing candidates filmed a promotional "sales tape" for advertisers and took in the various activities leading up to fight night, while camera crews recorded their every move.

As for the two head trainers, White would not reveal names at this time, but says contracts are in the process of being finalized. "We're counting on two of the top light-heavyweights in the world to be the main trainers," he would reveal, feeding further speculation as to just who will gain these coveted roles. To join these golden two, White confirmed that three others will round out the training staff, consisting of a boxing, Muay Thai, and an all-round MMA expert. This trio, as well as White, will serve as the judges for the future eliminations to follow. However, the two main trainers will not be privy to this process. Competing for a yet-to-be-determined incentive of their own, the head coaches will lead their final four athletes into the concluding showdown on live TV, garnering their own prize if their team can come out with the most victories. But, with only four fights (representing the four weight classes) up for grabs, what if the tally rings 2-2? "I don't know," White honestly answers. "When we went through the structure of this thing, there are so many things that can go wrong and so many things that can happen. We have to have answers and rules for these things. We're working on it."

Although certain specifics have yet to be ironed out, White anticipates scenarios arising throughout the season. "There's gonna be back-up guys," he says. "Guys are gonna get hurt. Some guys will quit." To prepare for these unavoidable details, White predicts another ten fighters will be selected and waiting in the wings if the situation should present itself. And true to any good reality show, there will inevitably be some created obstacles to overcome. For instance, if one side dwindles too low in the elimination process in any weight division, the opposing team captain will have the option to release his weakest competitor to his rivals. "Then it's up to the head coach and his assistant coaches to fix whatever the holes are in that guy's game," White explains. This added element could also open the doors to former teammates eventually fighting one another to stay alive.

If they can survive the drama, in the end it will be four against four, with the victors receiving a UFC contract and a birth onto the pay-per-view broadcasts. The New York Post has already reported each of these contracts in the six-figure region. "I don't know where that came from," White clarifies, but points out the very possible ramifications for the final eight and the potential 90 million viewers watching them. "There's no way that anybody can deny that these kids that come out of this show are gonna be bigger stars than the stars we have right now. It's unfortunate, but it's true."

Serving as both the series creator and executive producer for the show, Craig Piligian brings over fifteen years of television experience to the table, from his work on the first three installments of Survivor to his more recent successes with American Chopper, American Hot Rod, and the critically-acclaimed American Casino, starring UFC owners Lorenzo and Frank Fertitta. A follower and fan of the sport for the last four years, Piligian's son is a Brazilian jiu-jitsu student as well. Along with Zuffa, Piligian has been working on a UFC television deal for the last three years, but says the project really hit its stride in the last six months when Spike became interested. "Everybody's zigging with boxing," the veteran producer observes, "but, the UFC is young, it's hip, it's now, it's what people want to see. If you're going after the 18 to 34 year old market, this is it." But, among a saturated sea of reality shows to choose from, what does Piligian predict will keep the UFC boat afloat? "Our characters," he answers. "Our storylines, and the fact that this is new. No one's ever seen this before."

White is also counting on palpable audience investment in these exposed athletes. "You're gonna watch how these guys train, live, everything. You're gonna learn a lot about these guys in 13 weeks. It will get into their personal lives. People are gonna pick sides. People are gonna pick the fighters that they want to win and the guys that they want to see lose. This is some serious stuff. I want this to be educational, exciting, interesting. I want this to be real. We're looking for real fighters." With shooting to commence September 1st, the search is well underway.

Thrush

"Devastating striker with a great sprawl" You could also describe Chuck Lidell the same way, and he has done pretty well in MMA. I think you're selling the K-1 fighters a little short. IMO some could do very well in MMA if they learned sub defense, which isn't that hard to learn. On the other hand how well would the MMA fighters do under K-1 rules?

Hughes is just as one dimensional as any K-1 fighter. On his feat against a decent striker he is in trouble. On the ground vs BJJ specialist again he is in trouble. He can takedown and GnP and thats about it.

Randelman while not the best striker in the world he can hold his own on his feet. He is very fast, has heavy hands and can knock anyone out if he connects. That same left hook also took out Rua. Rampage said Randleman hit harder than anyone he has ever fought.

You don't see the UFC's elite vs scrubs?! How about Cabbage vs Arlovski? Ortiz made a career out of fighting scrubs before Randy.

The Pride isn't perfect. They have their share of exhibition type bouts. The bad thing about the UFC's stunt matches is that they are the main events. And are inevitably huge letdowns.

When you get right down to it the quality of the fights in the Pride is just plain better than what the UFC has to offer.

KnightLerxst

One word. Takada.

krazykat72

admittedly, some of Takada's "fights" have been bad spectacles, but one must remember that Pride wouldn't have taken off without him. He was the meal ticket that drew the initial big crowds against Rickson Gracie. Then the Sakuraba~! phenomenon started and is being continued to a degree with Yoshida. A Japanese drawing card is still essential for Pride's success.
As for this show, I'm not really sold on it. UFC desperately needed a "Tuesday Night Fights" kind of show where they could show preli type fights and hype the PPV's. I'm not sure that this type of reality show will be the answer. However, some tv is better than no tv i guess.

-Paul Jacobi-

SexualPudding

Cabbage vs. Arlovski was a definite mismatch, but you are forgetting something. Arlovski was supposed to be fighting Tim Sylvia on that card for the HW title, but because Sylvia still pissed hot for roids they had to change things up. Cabbage was originally slated to face Mike Kyle. If both of those fights had taken place as scheduled, you can't say anything. They put together Cabbage vs. Arlovski on a day's notice.

Tito Ortiz has fought his share of "scrubs", but he has also fought quite a few upper level guys. Since you did say "until he fought Randy", I will throw Wanderlei Silva and Frank Shamrock out there. Yuki Kondo isn't bad either, although Tito did outweigh him by quite a bit. There are also circumstances that prevented Tito from fighting some better guys than he did. He fought Elvis Sinosic at UFC 31, I believe. That fight was a complete mismatch, but it only happened because Jeremy Horn lost his chance to fight Tito when Elvis beat him. I wouldn't call Horn a scrub at all. Tito was also supposed to fight Vitor Belfort on two separate occasions. The first time, Vitor put his hand through a window, and the UFC replaced him with Vladimir Matyushenko. It was going to be Randleman, but they couldn't work it out. The second time, Tito tore his ACL. Yeah, Tito has fought some lesser talent for sure, but it wasn't supposed to be that way.

MrBob

ttt

johnglass

The first episode is on right now for anyone that's interested.