Giles

pro-bassoonist and I have been discussing this movie over in the DVDTalk section and I was just wondering if anyone here specifically in the International section owns or has seen this?




1. What is the print condition like?

2. what is the running time, Amazon (France) denotes 140min. does the PAL average the film out to the US editions running time of 156 minutes?

pro-bassoonist

dvdfr. indicates 160min.....

http://www.dvdfr.com/dvd/dvd.php?id=7064

pro-b

edit....

DVDRAMA gives a prett high score on the 2dvd set....

http://www.dvdrama.net/fiche.php?3178









THIS SHOULD ANSWER SOME OF YOUR QUESTIONS-

R1 US Version-


French R2 version-



more here:
http://www.devildead.com/indexfilm.php3?FilmID=587

Giles

okay...

DVDRama states 140min.
DVDfr: 160min.
DVDead: 155min

This is confusing.

I might be wrong in assuming this, but the aspect ratio also looks wider than Image's Region 1 release.

pro-bassoonist

I would go with DVDrama.....DVDfr is a hit and miss with specs....for what is worth....www.devildead.com lists 155 min.....

I can guarantee to you that the dvd is uncut though......I went trough the DVDrama review.....check it out.....

Pro-B

Giles

The first pressing (if you can call it that) of Images unrated release came with a bonus disc, totally unrelated to the film, but was a collection and sampling of Penthouse' soft core videos.

pro-bassoonist

Well, Giles....pick your poison....if the subs were not forced I would have jumped on this double disc ASAP. I HIGHLY doubt it we will see such presentation in R1 land soon.....I found the second review very helpful as well (devildead)....it actually compares the R1 and R2 discs (French).....so....

As of today though....I am collecting the rest of Tinto's work.....and that's plenty.....

Cheers,
Pro-B

Giles

It's to bad that the film was marred by Bob Guccione decision to add hardcore sex scenes since Tinto Brass' isn't pleased with how and what Bob did with his movie. As Imdb. denotes the multitude alternate versions:

Alternate Versions for
Caligola (1979)

An alternate version of the movie, disowned by director Tinto Brass, was prepared by producer Bob Guccione including six additional minutes of hard core footage.

At the Cannes film festival an original unadulterated 210-minutes version was shown.

The film was released in Britain in two forms: the original cinema release ran 150 minutes, while the video was cut down to 102 minutes by the distributor.

A new print running approximately to Tinto Brass' original specifications (but subject to BBFC guidelines and therefore featuring some creative panning and scanning to avoid offensive images) was prepared for broadcast in the UK in November 1999.

The older laserdisc version has a running time error printed on the cover of the disc. The cover states it is 143mins, when it is actually 148mins, making it the infamous X rated version that was running around (as bootlegs) for years until the full 156min dvd came out Even though the new dvd (at 156mins) is totally uncut, the laserdisc version (at 148mins unedited and unrated)) still features different scenes then the dvd version of the film. The laserdisc shows more of the freak show we see when Malcom McDowel first meets Peter O'Toole (among other things throughout the film).

Although the Russian release claims to be the "uncut & uncensored version", it's still the Tinto Brass cut, running 148 minutes. It is eight minutes shorter than the uncut one, but it does feature some extremely repulsive scenes from the Tiberius's grotto that were left out by Bob Guccione for the uncensored version.

The original unrated version is 156 minutes long; a R-rated version is available on video minus 41 (!) minutes of sex scenes. The original unrated version is 156 minutes long; a R-rated version is available on video minus 53 (!) minutes of sex scenes.

A version running 133 minutes, containing a "softcore" selection of sex scenes, and rated "18+" was shown on German TV.

After Franco Rosselini saw the butchered 156 cut of the film sloppily edited from outtakes and rehearsal footage by Bob Guccione, he smuggled the raw footage back to Italy, were he made his own, a far superior, cut of the film, titled "Io, Caligola." This new cut was premiered exclusively in Italy and runs aprox. 87 minutes. In this new version, all of the pointless, hardcore scenes shot by Bob Guccione were cut out and replaced by many crucial scenes deleted in the American version, such as Proculus escaping the decapitation machine. Some pointless dialogue was also cut to pick up the pace of the film and make it more fluid.

A few years later, Rosselini added back the hardcore scenes (the ones shot by Tinto Brass, not Bob Guccione) to his 87 min. cut and released in again only in Italy. This "uncut" "Io, Caligola" runs aprox. 122 minutes.

There are two R rated versions of the film. One released in the early eighties and running about 105 minutes had much of the dialogue cut, and used different angles and alternate shots of all the sex/violence cut. This version is currently out of print and the only other R rated version availible is a sloppily censored 156 minute version, which was already butchered beyond belief.

with all this being pointed out, I would love to see Tinto's original cut and the 122min 'Io, Caligula' version of the film.

cultshock

Wow, I have never heard of that "Io, Caligula" version. I would love to see that too.

I have always heard about a longer version (the 210 minute version shown at Cannes, perhaps?). Has that version ever appeared anywhere on video? (even on the grey market?)

pro-bassoonist

Great synopsis Giles......the only news to me is that the hardcore scenes were used in-and-out of the film more than 2 times. It appears that whoever got to the film print....wanted to be the editor of it. Sad!!!

With this said....there was a Greek VHS version with subs....that was supposedly much longer than the hardcore 157min version....with how much added footage I dont remember. It was by a company under the name of Elada...or something like that.....red cover...yellow letters.....

As to a complete 210min verison (Cannes originated).....never heard of one being available on VHS.....if there is/was such verison transfered to any sort of a medium....VHS, DVD, or an old LD.....this would be a shocking news to me!!!

I would betotally satisfied if a remastered version, or something similar to the French 2dvd SET appears without forced subs....I am just hoping that sooner or later the Italians will come with an extensive in-depth SE.

Pro-B

pro-bassoonist

well, the French disc is anamorphic....the image disc is not......so......

pro-bassoonist

if you click on the link I have provided above....and go to page two....there is a list of available editions from around the world of different cuts of the film....
http://www.devildead.com/indexdbtop....e=1&FilmsID=94

Here is the Io Caligula version which from what I am finding on the net...it appears to have been re-cut for Italian cable TV as well...hence....the aspect ratio of 1.33



Pro-B


edit....dvdland reports a ratio of 1.85:1...

mrwilson

Read the post in English from a buyer of the Italian DVD.

Io, Caligola

I'm curious how the Dutch 2 disc compares to this French one.

duofold

"As of today though....I am collecting the rest of Tinto's work.....and that's plenty....."

Where are some good places to find a selection of Tino's work?

pro-bassoonist

Giles:

if you are still interested...I have confirmed with my friends from Holland that the French 2 dvd set of Caligula does indeed have removable subs, unlike what French online sources claim (Peter07 first mentioned this...but as of this morning I have an email confirmation).

Pro-B

Giles

really?! thanks alot Pro-B

peter07

I'm gonna wait until the dollar rebounds against the euro. The rate is way bad right now and I can wait to buy the DVD.

Hendrik

...might be a lo-o-o-ong wait...

. . . . . .

Giles

I hear ya both, both the Euro and British pound conversion rates are really really terrible:

I didn't realize how bad it was til I saw my credit card statement with exchange rates for Riget I - II (The Kingdom) and Peter Greenaway Collection DVD's I recently received.