stevearino

My Sony 845 HT receiver seems to have given up on me and I'm now looking for a new receiver. I wondered if anyone had any ideas for receivers in the 500 dollar price range.
I am considering an Onkyo. Specifically this model
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-S9XxlGK...o&i=580TXS601S
I don't want to go higher than 500 as I have two young kids in the house, and don't want to spend a whole lot since there is a chance that one of them might accidentally mess it up.
Does anyone have any info(good or bad) regarding the lower end Onkyo line? Or any suggestions on what else I should look at? There is a stereo dealer in my area that has Yamahas. Are
Yamahas in this price range decent?
Thanks for any help anyone can give me.
Steve

Dah-Dee

The Onkyo 601 is certainly a nice receiver, but you can get it for a lot cheaper than in your link (see below for example). You should also consider refurbs and/or clearance (e.g., last year's) models in order to maximize bang for the buck. Some suggestions:

Harman Kardon DPR1001 $477.09 at OneCall

Harman Kardon AVR325 refurb $367.21 at OneCall

Onkyo 700 $528.88 at OneCall

Onkyo 701 refurb $439.99 at eCost

Onkyo 601 $319.99 at eCost

Denon 2803 $512.55 at Hypaudio

Yamaha 5590 $439.99 at etronics

Harman Kardon 525 refurb $469.99 at Refurb Electronics

Please note that I am not familiar with all of these vendors, although I have heard very good things about OneCall (currently have my first order in the mail from them) and have also heard good things about ecost, etronics. Haven't heard of the others, just found low prices for specific items I was looking for info on. You'd want to check up on them before placing an order, I suppose....

stevearino

Thank you very much for those suggestions. Now that you've posted those links, I'm really starting to lean towards that Harmon Kardon. I know back in the 80's that their name was synonymous with high quality. Haven't checked out their stuff lately though. Have you ever ordered from that online retailer?
Their prices seem really good. Shipping costs are a little high, but not too bad on the 3 day shipping.

---- I'm editing now because I didn't see what you added as I was typing. I think I will go with that Harmon Kardon.
Thanks again for replying and researching those links. :thumbup:

Dah-Dee

Which H/K are you talking about?

Edit: I see you were talking about one of the H/K models from OneCall, and wanted to add that I recently also ordered a Harman Kardon receiver from them -- the AVR7200 -- so I agree that they make good stuff! I'm guessing you're talking about the DPR 1001, and it is a pretty cool receiver. It's digital, by the way, you may want to hunt around the web for more info on that just to make sure it's what you want.

The Onkyo 601 and 701 receivers at eCost are mighty tempting. Onkyo also makes an excellent product, can't really go wrong picking between the 2 brands. You might want to listen to the different brands (I know Circuit City carries both H/K [the DP1001 is still $699.99!] and Onkyo [the 701 is on sale -- but still $749.99!]) before placing an order, as different brands have different characteristics. For example, I've heard Harman Kardon receivers described as "warm," and Yamaha (also makes good stuff) receivers described as "bright." Again, an internet search for info might prove useful in this regard, but in the end your own ears will absolutely be the best way to determine which receiver is best for you.

stevearino

Yep, I am thinking about the DPR1001. One thing I noticed is the power rating. It says 50Wx7. Watts per channel.
The Sonys claim 100w.
Now, I play guitar and have a 60 watt combo and a 100 watt head(all tube for both), and know that the decibel difference between 50 and 100 watts is about 4 decibels(almost negligible).
The same can be said for receivers as well right? I notice that the HK receiver has preamp outputs for driving additional amps.
Do you know what the reason would be? I can't see anyone in a normal home environment needing more than 50 watts?

AGuyNamedMike

Headroom. The incredibly dynamic source material in a modern movie requires plenty of spare power to accurately reproduce the peaks (explosions and such) without clipping while still cleanly presenting dialogue and score.

Furious

Wattage ratings are useless unless you ensure that your comparing apples to apples and oranges to oranges. Double check to see how the power handling rating is derived. 100 Watts of brand A may be the equivalent of 50 Watts of brand B.

Pointyskull

I bought an Onkyo HT receiver (can't remember the model - either 595 or 696, maybe) from Crutchfield a couple of years ago, and I absolutely love it.

just my .02

Dah-Dee

Regarding power ratings, it is commonly accepted that receiver manufacturers generally exaggerate the actual output; for example, those Sonys you mentioned may claim 100 watts per channel, all channels driven (or not!), blah blah blah, but I'd be very surprised if they actually pushed more than 60-70 watts per channel etc. etc. --- EXCEPTION: Harman Kardon is one of the very few manufacturers known to consistently accurately state, or even *understate,* the actual output!!! So that DPR1001 very likely does actually produce 50 watts per channel, which is probably plenty for a modest setup as you apparently intend. The pre-amps are nice because you can expand your system, using external amps to drive more powerful speakers, without having to replace the receiver if you don't want to.

Generally, however, the stated power rating is not very informative on its own. Different manufacturers also use different methods of measuring power, further confusing the issue. Read professional reviews wherever possible for lab tests showing actual output.

That really is a very good deal on the DPR1001.

Dah-Dee

Here's an article I found on power ratings that might be helpful:

Multimedia Answers: Watts, ohms, kilohertz, distortion? Is the stereo good or not?

Thursday, December 19, 2002

By Don Lindich

Q: Why do I see shelf stereos advertising 500 total watts for $300, and across the store I see 500-watt surround receivers for $1,000? Why so much difference in price if the watts are the same?

A: The power ratings given for receivers and shelf systems are some of the most confusing concepts for people learning about audio reproduction. Anyone would wonder how the complete shelf stereo system for only $200 can boast "300 watts" when a quality stereo receiver from a manufacturer may sell for $400 and may be marketed as having only 30 watts. Is everyone telling the truth? It depends on how you look at it. Some of these examples are definitely stretching it a bit.

The Federal Trade Commission regulates how power ratings are advertised for the marketing of amplifiers and receivers. The amplifier must have a stated power level in watts, a distortion level, a frequency or frequency range where the measurement is taken and an impedance. (The impedance is the electrical resistance of the speaker. A lower-impedance speaker requires a more solidly constructed amplifier, but in return, the amplifier produces more power into the lower resistance.)

The next time you see a shelf system advertising "200 total watts," look at the fine print. It will probably say something like this: 100 watts per channel, 6 ohms, 1 kilohertz, 10 percent distortion.

What is the fine print saying? "This thing doesn't produce anywhere close to 100 usable watts per channel."

Ten percent distortion is an incredibly high amount. Listening to something being reproduced with 10 percent distortion would be very unpleasant.

One kHz is only one part of the audible range. Humans can hear from 20 hertz to 20,000 Hz. If the amplifier specification gives only one frequency, you can bet it produces less over the entire audible range.

Finally, 6 ohms is a low impedance for rating an amplifier. For years, the default standard for amplifier power ratings has been 8 ohms.

What can we conclude from this? This system doesn't produce anything close to 100 real-world watts per channel. Changing the measurement parameters has skewed the power rating to an unrealistically high point. What's the true power rating? There's no real way to find out. When buying a compact system, ignore the power ratings and just buy the one that sounds best to you.

Next, looking at the fine print on the $200 five-channel receiver, we see: 100 watts per channel, one channel driven, 8 ohms, 1 kHz, 1 percent distortion.

This one probably performs much better than the shelf system. The power rating is given into 8 ohms, the industry standard. One percent distortion is a lot less than 10 percent, but is still considered high. It's also measured at the same 1 kHz -- just a small slice of the audible spectrum. Also note that the power is given into one channel.

That isn't going to happen when you are listening to stereo music (two channels) or surround sound (up to five). What this is telling you is that it can't deliver that power all at once to all the speakers.

Finally, let's look at a $1,200 home theater amplifier: 100 watts per channel, all channels driven, 8 ohms, 20 Hz to 20 kHz with less than 0.09 percent distortion.

Here, we have a winner! The power is delivered to all five channels over the entire frequency range, into 8 ohms, at a very low distortion level. Anything under .1 percent is considered undetectable by human ears.

Always read the fine print when comparing amplifiers. There's a reason those watts are so cheap in some of these products. It's because they aren't real watts. They are advertising watts.

Link: http://www.post-gazette.com/interact...ch1219bnp1.asp

stevearino

Thanks for all the replies!
Another thing I noticed with the HK DPR1001 is the THD is rated at less than .15 %, but when I opened up their online owner's manual, in the specs section, it states the THD at .19 % and the
signal to noise ratio at 90 decibels.
Doesn't the THD seem kinda high?
I'm now more leaning towards the Onkyo 601 again or the Yamaha HTR5660.
Arrrgh, decisions. I'm getting a headache now. LOL

Dah-Dee

That Onkyo 601 for $320 is hard to pass up! I'd take it over the Yamaha.

Looks like the Onkyo 701 has all the features of the 601, plus: large set of pre-in/out connections; 15 more watts per channel; digital coax out; THX certification/sound fields. The 701 is also a very good deal, picking the model you want just depends on whether you think you'll ever use the pre-outs or are interested in THX certification. I'm thinking maybe the 601 is the way to go -- that's just dirt cheap for a good receiver.

Yeah, the DPR 1001 does seem to have higher-than-usual-for-H/K THD, and I've seen some comments online by owners not happy with what they perceive as excessive noise/hiss. Of course, I've also seen posts by others who paid twice the current price and are still thrilled with it. Seems to me the 1001 is more of a "concept car" receiver than a finished product, still some work to do there. It is, however, very nice-looking, runs cool because it's digital, and still has that Harman Kardon quality thing going for it. Personally, if I were determined to buy a digital-amp receiver any time soon, I'd probably wait for the $400 Panasonic XR-70 due to be released in April. That one looks like a legend in the making. Anyway, I suppose if someone put a gun to my head and made me pick a receiver for you right now, I'd probably go with the 601 from ecost.

DJ_Longfellow

I have the Sony STR-DA1000ES receiver. It's their new top-of-the-line ES receivers....I highly recommend it, especially if you want a silver receiver....

stevearino

I think the 601 is gonna be the way for me to go. Like I mentioned, my 2 kids(6 yo and 3 yo) love to press buttons and if they somehow mess up the 601, I won't feel so put out like I would if I bought a 500 + receiver. This should do for the next few years until they get out of that stage and I can then upgrade to a higher quality receiver. Who knows what cool stuff the manufacturers will have available then?

DJ_Longfellow - I've seriously looked at the 1000ES, but again, the problem is with my button pushing loving kids. LOL
Otherwise, I probably would buy that. My TV, DVD, CD player and VCR are all Sony.

DJ_Longfellow

Well, if you look around, you can get the 1000ES for around $400....I think I got it for $415 shipped. Drop me an e-mail and I can tell you where....

stevearino

DJ_Longfellow - When you get a chance, shoot me an email at [email protected]
Thank you!

Dah-Dee

..... Is it a secret?....

Sony STR-DA1000ES $399.99

Sony STR-DA1000ES $387.00

Sony STR-DA1000ES $388.73

Sony STR-DA1000ES $392.99 w/free shipping at eCost

Sony STR-DA1000ES $389.01

Sony STR-DA1000ES $390.99

Sony STR-DA1000ES $392.55

The challenge, I suppose, is finding a good receiver at a good price from an authorized dealer so that you are ensured of manufacturer warranty coverage.

stevearino

I think you are exactly right in that respect. A good price from an authorized dealer makes all the difference when something does go kaput.
I haven't yet received an email from DJ_Longfellow to know if where he got it from is an authorized dealer. I know Onecall is.
I'm still leaning towards the Onkyo though. The problem I have with my Sony 845 is shying me away from their receivers.

goillini

When it comes to receivers, I would lean more towards Yamaha or Harmon Kardon. Both are excellent.

stevearino

Well, I ended up getting a Yamaha. It's the 5660 model. It was about 400. I probably paid a bit too much, but it sounds very nice. Only thing is there is a bit of a cut in the output when switched from the tuner to dvd. Not that big of a problem though.

Something it has made me realize is that I now need a new center channel speaker and new rear surrounds.
I have Infinity main speakers(SM225), a Klipsch sub, and was thinking about a ported Infinity Alpha center. I'm using an old Sony center that I bought as a set with a pair of Sony rear surrounds right now. The problem is there is not enough depth with the Sony.
Does anyone have any recommendations on whether to go with a ported center or a sealed one?
The Yamaha receiver I bought is 85 watts. I need to stay pretty cheap on this too(like 250 or less). The Infinity has a freq range of 55-22,000 Hz and sensitivity of 89 decibels(and is ported).
Then there is the Klipsch SC-1 that is 60-20,000 but with a sensitvity of 95 decibels(closed). The Infinity is 180 and the Klipsch is 280. Any thoughts with regards to a decent center?
Once again thank you for everyone's help with all this fun schtuff.
Steve

Kumar J

I am still using a Yamaha for 5 years already.Never let me down yet!

stevearino

It turns out that my dvd player was the culprit in sound loss. I got a new player, and there is no volume loss between the tuner and dvd player now.
This was per a conversation and an ultimate recommendation I was given by a Yamaha cust rep out in California yesterday. I will say that it was refreshing to actually get a rep within 3 minutes of placing the call too. From past experience with other companies, I know how much of a pain it can be to actually talk to someone.

+1 new satisfied Yamaha electronics customer!