GatorDeb

Here's the auction page:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=3529375106

So do you feel it was misrepresented?
- The GBC's battery door is taped shut
- The GB's battery door is missing
- One game has the sticker off
- Another game has been chewed on the top
- Another game has the sticker almost off
- And finally one game has someone's initials on the back

So what do you think?


Here's the email I sent to the seller:

Hello. When I bid on your auction I read " near mint - mint none of the stuff was really played with." When I opened the package, this is what I saw: The Gameboy color's battery door needs to be taped shut to stay put. The battery door for the original Gameboy is missing. Wario Land has something black stuck to the back, Motocross Maniacs has initials on the back, All-Star Challenge 2 has been CHEWED on the top Pokemon Blue's label is almost ripped completely off, and there's one game that I don't know what it is because the sticker has been taken off completely and a Dave & Busters sticker is on the back. This is NOT " near mint - mint none of the stuff was really played with." Chewed, marked, ripped, and missing is not " near mint - mint none of the stuff was really played with." Please reply as to what we can do about this.

Debbie

Josh-da-man

That's one of the risks you run when you buy things sight unseen off of Ebay.

I've been burned more than a few times. I don't if people don't know what "mint" means, or if they're just being deceptive.

Mint is a very specific condition. It means perfectly flawless -- so much so, in fact, that many dealers will not even use the term, instead opting for "near mint" instead.

I've ordered "mint" or "near mint" CDs that were scratched up all to hell, books and comic books that were in far worse condition than stated. But, I've frankly, had worse luck in regards to condition when using Half.com. In fact, I got so sick of people overestimating the condition of the stuff they sold that I quit using Half altogether.

GatorDeb

But SafeHarbor would side with me, right? Also my credit card department? I'm fighting this one. Things missing, taped, chewed, etc, is not near mint, mint, or barely played with.

menaz

One quick word of advice, dont ever EVER buy anything on ebay that does not have a picture, and I mean an actual picture, not a save as they took from a manufacturers website. If the seller doesnt offer you a full refund, I suggest you file a complaint with paypal, usually them receiving the words "fraud" from an email coming from paypal scares them and they give you your money back.

Josh-da-man

Another word of advice.

I clicked on the auction page, and read through the seller's feedback.

Now, this is just my call, but I would never have spent $128.50 from a seller with a ratio of four negatives to 66 positives.

As a general rule, I won't trust more than a couple of dollars to ANY seller with more than 1% of their feedbacks negative. I've passed up a lot of good deals after reading through feedback. Yes, some people are going to get unjustified negative feedbacks from "difficult" members of Ebay, but I have a feeling that that's still in the minority. I've had hundreds of transactions on Ebay -- buying and selling -- and have not yet gotten a single negative or neutral.

One feature that I really wish Ebay had -- and I don't know why they don't -- is a way to only view the negative or neutral feedbacks. I get so sick of wading through page after page of feedback to just read the negatives. Such a thing would be such an obvious tool for buyers to use I'm surprised they haven't included something like it before.

And just because there's a picture on the page doesn't necessarily mean its the exact item for sale. People do occasionally "steal" pictures from other users, or they could take a picture of a friend's similar item.

Troy Stiffler

Did you pay with a credit card?

PayPal doesn't cover the condition of the item. If you file a claim, and click "Item not as described", the claim will be immediatly denied. However, your credit card company will help you. A few months ago, PayPal made an addition to their user agreement. It incorperated a new part from Mastercard (and the other major companies, I think) that stated basically "you MUST represent your item exactly as it is".

I'd say to just bother the seller for a week or two. Threaten to leave negative feedback, report him to eBay, and do a credit card charge-back. Mention to him that if you have to do a credit card charge-back, he'll be charged an additional $25 fee.

Hope it works out. And like the other poster said...NEVER purchase ANYTHING without seeing a picture of the actual product.

codecomplete

I agree with you, but we all know that eBay is going to do everything it can to get people to bid so allowing bidders to quickly see negative and neutral feedbacks might deter them so that's why it isn't implemented.

GatorDeb

Now what happens if I do a chargeback and my bank goes after Paypal and Paypal states that the transaction was complete hence no chargeback... how do I get my $ back?

wanabath

When I think near mint, I do not think worn out. I would demand my money back from seller.

Quake1028

Yeah it's obvious the condition was lied about, but I don't know what you can do to get a refund.

BTW, I responded to you in my trade thread in the VGXchange Forum. Check it out please .

hoyalawya

Read this forum - www.paypalsucks.com. I think that it is pretty certain that you do a chargeback from your credit card company.

renaldow

Everything is 'near mint.' Some things are just 'nearer' than other things. The term is useless and meaningless unless the item actually was made in a mint.

Troy Stiffler

PayPal's rules are probably different than your bank's. PayPal only covers that your merchandise will get there. But Visa/Mastercard will side with you if you received damaged merchandise.

Was the game shipped to a 'confirmed address'? The bank will chargeback PayPal. If it was shipped to a confirmed address, with tracking, PayPal will lose the money. If it was shipped to an unconfirmed address (or possibly, if it wasn't tracked), PayPal will take the money from the seller to cover the chargeback (actual amount involved, + $25).

Did the seller ever get back to you? If not, just threaten a chargeback through your bank (not PayPal). I'm sure that will get him to e-mail back. If would be really bad for the seller to not e-mail back, as that's part of how PayPal accounts get frozen.

GatorDeb

But it is understood that Mint = in like new condition and near mint - have to look pretty closed to see the deficits.

You're not saying that chewed, taped, missing, and marked is what a reasonable person would consider near mint? It also included the phrase "not really played with."

The seller has not gotten back to me. I will re-send the same message today, in 5 days another one that says no response will cause me to file fraud charges with my bank, Paypal, and eBay, and on day 10th from today I will go ahead and do that if a refund is not in my Paypal acct.

It WAS shipped to a confirmed address. I have since then removed my bank acct from Paypal so that NOW it is unconfirmed. I got the package so I don't see how a confirmed address would make a difference...

GatorDeb

I was looking at the seller's other auction in the past 31 days. She had 7 other auctions. 6 of those stated near mint and one stated mint.

Is this also mail fraud since it was sent through the U.S. mail?

PJsig08

It's been said, but NEVER buy something like this without a picture.

Sorry this happened, but we all learn on eBay eventually...I shelled out $35 for a game once which never came, the guy ended up being on the FBI's want list.

So, hey, it happens eventually. Sucks, but its true.

gcribbs

could be. Why not threaten that as well.

Josh-da-man

No, it's not.

"Near Mint" is a very specific term for the condition of an item, mostly applied to comic books, but it is also ported over to other things as well. (Books are generally called "as new" instead of "mint.")

Conditions such as

NEAR MINT/MINT
VERY FINE
FINE
VERY GOOD
GOOD
FAIR
POOR
BAD

have pretty specific standards, though exact definitions will vary. (For example, some graders might allow small water stains onto a FINE condition comic books while others would automatically downgrade it to a GOOD.)

But NEAR MINT is a very specific condition meaning the item is as new with no damage or wear. To simply say that an item in any condition can be "near mint" is extremely deceptive.

chanster

Josh-

We know there are definitions for collectibles. However, on ebay the term near mint and mint are used to describe every day things that are in great shape and have no problems...and aren't graded for the "collectibles market"

However, any way you cut, this ebay seller has committed fraud. Pursue it. I would never buy a picture of a used object without a picture of the actual item.

renaldow

No, I agree with you 100% that it shouldn't have been represented this way. What I'm saying is that with some actual 'collectors items' such as coins, comic books, etc. Near Mint is a standardized term that independant grading houses use to describe conditions of an object. Unfortunately, there is no grading house for Gameboys (or 99% of other Ebay products that people will call 'mint' or 'near mint') and they are words that should be taken with a large grain of salt as they are entirely meaningless without an authentic grading scale. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all that. Anyone who has seen a proud 16yo show off their first car knows exactly what I mean.

renaldow

You are right, when you are talking about collectibles with a set grading scale that have been graded by a 3rd party grading company such as books, coins, etc. However, 99% of items sold on Ebay have not been graded by a certified grading house, and don't even have an authentic or official grading scale to begin with. Gameboys would be such an item.

When you trust an individual to grade their own item you are trusting a kid to run the candy store, hence the need for grading houses for things like coins, Hummel figurines, etc. Grading is relative to your experience with an item and how you treat your belongings. I might toss all of my GB cartridges on the floor, and consider the ones that aren't cracked from stepping on them and don't have food stains to be 'near mint' while the ones that are cracked but still work to be in 'good condition.' You keep all of yours in hermetically sealed bags buried in your basement, never having touched a GB or even taking them out of the shrink wrap and call yours 'near mint' when the price tag yellows or the unopened box slightly warps.

Without a set standard graded by a certified grader, any term such as 'near mint' needs to be ignored completely because it's a meaningless term at that point. Again, everything is near mint, some are just nearer to it than others.

Johnny Zhivago

Yeah, you got shafted. Proceed with your fraud charges, etc...

Also, not to whack a dead horse here, but... I agree completely with the above advice... Never buy anything without a picture, never buy anything from anyone with questionable feedback - which 94.3% definitely is... I sell on eBay and have a 475 with 0 negs and 0 neutrals = 100% positive. So, it's not that hard to be honest with people and provide good service.

GatorDeb

No reply yet. On the 20th I will send the second e-mail. On the 26th if I still do not have a response, I will start the process. On this first e-mail I didn't mention any action I may take - I left that for the second e-mail.

wanabath

In your feedback you leave (sure it will be negative) make sure you stat that the products were in bad condition, not near mint as promissed.

GatorDeb

Update:

----- Original Message -----
From: Debbie
To: DELETED
Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2003 9:53 AM
Subject: Final Notice: 3529375106 GBA ,Gameboy Color ,Gameboy Pocket + 13 games

Hello. I sent you this e-mail on the 14th. It is now the 20th and I have no reply. I will wait until the 26th at 8am Pacific Standard Time and then I will take action. What I will do is file fraud charges with eBay, contact SafeHarbor, file fraud charges with Paypal, file fraud charges with the United States Postal Office, do a claim with my bank to get the funds back, and leave negative feedback. We can fix this very easily by you giving me back what I paid plus what it will cost me to get this back to you. I will then send this on its way back to you.

You sold me items that were very different from what was described. That is fraud. Please take care of this so that I do not have to take it any further. If I have to file fraud charges, I will. I do not enjoy being taken advantage of.

Thank you,
Debbie

----- Original Message -----
From: Debbie
To: DELETED
Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 7:20 PM
Subject: Re: 3529375106 GBA ,Gameboy Color ,Gameboy Pocket + 13 games


Hello. I sent you this e-mail a few days ago and have not gotten a reply so here it is again. Please reply.

When I bid on your auction I read "near mint - mint none of the stuff was really played with." When I opened the package, this is what I saw: The Gameboy color's battery door needs to be taped shut to stay put. The battery door for the original Gameboy is missing. Wario Land has something black stuck to the back, Motocross Maniacs has initials on the back, All-Star Challenge 2 has been CHEWED on the top, Pokemon Blue's label is almost ripped completely off, and there's one game that I don't know what it is because the sticker has been taken off completely and a Dave & Busters sticker is on the back. This is NOT "near mint - mint none of the stuff was really played with." Chewed, marked, ripped, and missing is not "near mint - mint none of the stuff was really played with."

What I would like to come out of this is a full refund (including what I paid for shipping) sent to my Paypal account and also the amount that it will cost me to get the stuff back to you. Once I receive the funds I will go ahead and send back the package. I feel the condition of the items was grossly misrepresented.

Thank you,
Debbie