O'Reilly says a bad word
02-13-03, 04:21 PM
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O'Reilly says a bad word
From http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.as...20030212b.html
Fox Host in Hot Seat For Uses of Questionable Ethnic Term
By Jeff McKay
CNSNews.com Correspondent
February 12, 2003
(Editor's Note: Contains language some readers may find objectionable.)
(CNSNews.com) - The host of the highest rated primetime news program on cable television is facing criticism after using a disparaging term for Mexicans during a broadcast last week.
Fox News commentator Bill O'Reilly, host of The O'Reilly Factor program, used the term "wetback" during a Feb. 6 discussion of immigration problems along the U.S. - Mexico border.
During a segment of the show featuring Rep. Silvestre Reyes (D-Tex.), O'Reilly advocated the use of military forces to control illegal immigration and smuggling along the border, saying "We'd save lives because Mexican wetbacks, whatever you want to call them, the coyotes, they're not going to do what they're doing now, so people aren't going to die in the desert," according to a transcript of the program.
The word 'wetback' is a slang term for Mexicans who swim across the Rio Grande River to illegally enter the U.S. from Mexico and is considered by some to be offensive.
But it's apparently not the first time O'Reilly has used the term to describe illegal immigrants from Mexico. According to a report in the Jan. 5, 2003 edition of The Morning Call of Allentown, Penn., O'Reilly criticized the Immigration and Naturalization Service for not keeping "the wetbacks" out of the U.S.
The newspaper reported that O'Reilly was the featured speaker at a fundraising event in Easton, Penn. when he made the January reference.
When contacted for comment, an official with Fox News in New York repeated an earlier statement by the network. "The network doesn't condone the use of racial epithets nor does Bill," said Fox News spokesman Robert Zimmerman.
O'Reilly's use of the term during the January fundraiser in Pennsylvania apparently caught Zimmerman off guard. "This is news to me," said Zimmerman, who declined further comment.
"We find the comment made to be highly offensive," said Ashley Atwell, press secretary for Reyes, who is Mexican-American. "The issue {Reyes} broached with Mr. O'Reilly is a passionate issue for the people the congressman serves. They don't want the military on the borders."
Reyes is also a former U.S. Border Patrol agent and served as chief of the U.S. Border Patrol in the McAllen and El Paso areas between 1984 and 1995. Reyes is opposed to using American military forces along the Mexican border.
Atwell admitted this type of questionable slang has been used before, and said the Hispanic Caucus in Congress has dealt with situations like this in the past.
"It is regrettable. We consider the term 'wetback' to be a slur and offensive to Mexican-Americans," stated a spokeswoman for the Congressional Hispanic Caucus who would not give her name.
O'Reilly was not available for comment, but was quoted by the New York Times in a Feb. 10 report that he was "groping for a term to describe the industry that brings people in here. It was not meant to disparage people in any way."
While O'Reilly's use of the comment has drawn criticism in some quarters, it's been muted elsewhere.
When representatives for Hispanic Magazine, based in Coral Gables, Florida; and the Washington, D.C.-based Mexican-American Legal Defense and Education Fund were contacted, both organizations said they were unaware of the episode and declined comment.
Even at Reyes' office, inquiries have been limited, according to Atwell. "It hasn't been an all-consuming issue," said Atwell.
O'Reilly himself has been critical of others for their use of disparaging language in the past.
During a segment in his Jan. 24 show about a DaimlerChrysler vice president referring to conservative critics of Jesse Jackson as "myopic," O'Reilly said, "I don't like those drive-by - pardon the pun - comments, and, if this were directed toward liberals or anyone else, I would have the same problem," according to a transcript of the program.
By Jeff McKay
CNSNews.com Correspondent
February 12, 2003
(Editor's Note: Contains language some readers may find objectionable.)
(CNSNews.com) - The host of the highest rated primetime news program on cable television is facing criticism after using a disparaging term for Mexicans during a broadcast last week.
Fox News commentator Bill O'Reilly, host of The O'Reilly Factor program, used the term "wetback" during a Feb. 6 discussion of immigration problems along the U.S. - Mexico border.
During a segment of the show featuring Rep. Silvestre Reyes (D-Tex.), O'Reilly advocated the use of military forces to control illegal immigration and smuggling along the border, saying "We'd save lives because Mexican wetbacks, whatever you want to call them, the coyotes, they're not going to do what they're doing now, so people aren't going to die in the desert," according to a transcript of the program.
The word 'wetback' is a slang term for Mexicans who swim across the Rio Grande River to illegally enter the U.S. from Mexico and is considered by some to be offensive.
But it's apparently not the first time O'Reilly has used the term to describe illegal immigrants from Mexico. According to a report in the Jan. 5, 2003 edition of The Morning Call of Allentown, Penn., O'Reilly criticized the Immigration and Naturalization Service for not keeping "the wetbacks" out of the U.S.
The newspaper reported that O'Reilly was the featured speaker at a fundraising event in Easton, Penn. when he made the January reference.
When contacted for comment, an official with Fox News in New York repeated an earlier statement by the network. "The network doesn't condone the use of racial epithets nor does Bill," said Fox News spokesman Robert Zimmerman.
O'Reilly's use of the term during the January fundraiser in Pennsylvania apparently caught Zimmerman off guard. "This is news to me," said Zimmerman, who declined further comment.
"We find the comment made to be highly offensive," said Ashley Atwell, press secretary for Reyes, who is Mexican-American. "The issue {Reyes} broached with Mr. O'Reilly is a passionate issue for the people the congressman serves. They don't want the military on the borders."
Reyes is also a former U.S. Border Patrol agent and served as chief of the U.S. Border Patrol in the McAllen and El Paso areas between 1984 and 1995. Reyes is opposed to using American military forces along the Mexican border.
Atwell admitted this type of questionable slang has been used before, and said the Hispanic Caucus in Congress has dealt with situations like this in the past.
"It is regrettable. We consider the term 'wetback' to be a slur and offensive to Mexican-Americans," stated a spokeswoman for the Congressional Hispanic Caucus who would not give her name.
O'Reilly was not available for comment, but was quoted by the New York Times in a Feb. 10 report that he was "groping for a term to describe the industry that brings people in here. It was not meant to disparage people in any way."
While O'Reilly's use of the comment has drawn criticism in some quarters, it's been muted elsewhere.
When representatives for Hispanic Magazine, based in Coral Gables, Florida; and the Washington, D.C.-based Mexican-American Legal Defense and Education Fund were contacted, both organizations said they were unaware of the episode and declined comment.
Even at Reyes' office, inquiries have been limited, according to Atwell. "It hasn't been an all-consuming issue," said Atwell.
O'Reilly himself has been critical of others for their use of disparaging language in the past.
During a segment in his Jan. 24 show about a DaimlerChrysler vice president referring to conservative critics of Jesse Jackson as "myopic," O'Reilly said, "I don't like those drive-by - pardon the pun - comments, and, if this were directed toward liberals or anyone else, I would have the same problem," according to a transcript of the program.
02-13-03, 04:37 PM
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Whoops.
02-13-03, 04:48 PM
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If the term is used to describe all Mexicans, I can definitely see a problem, but if he's describing specifically the group of people who swim across the border to illegally enter the country, I'm not sure it's that big a deal.
das
das
02-13-03, 05:55 PM
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Originally posted by das Monkey
If the term is used to describe all Mexicans, I can definitely see a problem, but if he's describing specifically the group of people who swim across the border to illegally enter the country, I'm not sure it's that big a deal.
das
If the term is used to describe all Mexicans, I can definitely see a problem, but if he's describing specifically the group of people who swim across the border to illegally enter the country, I'm not sure it's that big a deal.
das
02-13-03, 06:08 PM
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Originally posted by Dacoops3
I agree. Although since O Reilly sometime watches people very closely at what they say, he should really watch it and some would say he is getting what he deserves.
I agree. Although since O Reilly sometime watches people very closely at what they say, he should really watch it and some would say he is getting what he deserves.
02-13-03, 06:09 PM
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I like how he uses the term while he is in cities with small Mexican populations. I would loved to see him use that term while he is Texas, Arizona, New Mexico or California. I doubt he would be that quick to use it. And why didn't the guy he was speakingto say something about it after he said it? Wasn't that guy Mexican?
02-13-03, 07:31 PM
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Why do people watch these guys who have shows where they can get on their soapbox and say whatever the hell they want? O'Reilly..Rush Limbaugh...Howard Stern.........
02-13-03, 08:29 PM
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Originally posted by das Monkey
If the term is used to describe all Mexicans, I can definitely see a problem, but if he's describing specifically the group of people who swim across the border to illegally enter the country, I'm not sure it's that big a deal.
das
If the term is used to describe all Mexicans, I can definitely see a problem, but if he's describing specifically the group of people who swim across the border to illegally enter the country, I'm not sure it's that big a deal.
das
Avoid. Derogatory word referring to individuals of Mexican descent and is derived from the crossing of the RÌo Bravo/RÌo Grande into the United States. It is considered among the worst of racial epithets.
How does using a very derogative word in its correct context make it any more right and no big deal?
Last edited by Gallant Pig; 02-13-03 at 08:36 PM.
02-13-03, 09:49 PM
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But hey, its only Mexicans right.....its not like he insulted SOutherners, or Jewish people, or Blacks, so I'm guessing this is about as much national coverage as this story gets right?
What the hell is CNS?
I previously had enough reason to dislike Bill O'Reilly...now I feel quite comfortable in my hatred for this man.
What the hell is CNS?
I previously had enough reason to dislike Bill O'Reilly...now I feel quite comfortable in my hatred for this man.
02-13-03, 11:50 PM
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Originally posted by bothanspy
So he's a hypocrite. It describes everyone in the public eye.
So he's a hypocrite. It describes everyone in the public eye.
And if they say something, it deserves to be discussed. No matter who they are.
02-14-03, 12:59 AM
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He'll get away with this for the same reason that Mike Barnacle does: he's a popular cash cow.
Plus, it's not like anyone at FOX is really outraged by this.
I'm just glad he's out in the open and on the record about this. He'll ride high for a while longer in his little clique, but a twice-used vile slur isn't something you can just wish away. It stays with you as long as people remember it. He's just put a huge dent in his profile among the mainstream culture, and shown himself to be the 3rd rate tabloid bozo that he is.
Plus, it's not like anyone at FOX is really outraged by this.
I'm just glad he's out in the open and on the record about this. He'll ride high for a while longer in his little clique, but a twice-used vile slur isn't something you can just wish away. It stays with you as long as people remember it. He's just put a huge dent in his profile among the mainstream culture, and shown himself to be the 3rd rate tabloid bozo that he is.
02-14-03, 05:19 AM
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Originally posted by big whoppa
Why do people watch these guys who have shows where they can get on their soapbox and say whatever the hell they want? O'Reilly..Rush Limbaugh...Howard Stern.........
Why do people watch these guys who have shows where they can get on their soapbox and say whatever the hell they want? O'Reilly..Rush Limbaugh...Howard Stern.........
At least Stern has a fascination with lesbians, though.
02-14-03, 07:05 AM
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Everyone's entitled to their opinion about what a word means or should mean, but just so everyone knows, there are many places around here (Socal) where you will be lucky to get away with an asskicking if you use that word. Proper context or not.
02-14-03, 08:15 AM
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Where are Jesse Jackson and gang? I thought they were out to help fight racism. Oh that's right, they don't care unless its racism against blacks. I think we need a new term because apparently racism against blacks is so much worse than racism against any other race.
02-14-03, 09:23 AM
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Ok....OReilly advocates using military forces to control illegal immigration, and over-the-border smuggling [which can be a rather dangerous profession], with the ultimate benefits of people not dying, and the hubbub is over a slang term he uses, which certainly was not appropriate, but still....I thought political correctness was about dead....
And note, absence of political correctness does not equal presence of racism; my interpretation of political correctness is the hypersensitive, every-word-is-an-insult reactionary emotions that was so prevalent not too long ago. Some slang terms for groups of people can definitely be offensive [however, it apparently depends on who says the word.]
Personally, I'd be more offended by this quote:
"[Nancy Pelosi] turned to me with those big eyes of hers and said, 'Bob, what would you do if one of your daughters was raped by a black man? You would want an abortion.'"
But since she's a Democrat, we hear very little about it. If Trent Lott said that, he would have been impaled on a stick. Similar to what BDLOU says; it's only racist, or 'important' racism, if it's against blacks, or if it's from non-Democrats.
I understood the term he used to refer specifically to illegal Mexican immigrants, [whoops, the NAHJ says that's also an offensive or dehumanizing term, to be replaced by "undocumented worker," or "undocumented immigrant." Again, which I didn't know until I read that site.]who most likely had to swim at least a portion of the way, literally or figuratively swimming under a fence, thus getting wet backs [as anyone would who swims.] If that is an incorrect understanding, which according to that NAHJ site, it is, then I stand corrected with a new understanding.
If OReilly defined it the same way, but then was corrected and his understanding of it was increased, then he should be expected not to use it, out of respect for the general populace who might be offended by it. [If he meant it pejoratively from the beginning, then yes, that definitely is uncalled for.] Instead he's the subject of an in-depth article, and is being called a hypocrite, hated, and it's implied that he/his fans are ignorant/stupid.
But, and this is to point out illogic, many Democrats and liberals [who are most of the people causing and publicizing these explosive reactions to words], are against things like the death penalty or long prison terms, in favor of rehab. So to break it down: using a word, perhaps in ignorance [which is not the same thing as stupidity], is something that a person should be crucified for, and can never be taken back. But committing a crime, or killing someone, etc, well, we can rehab that, 'It's okay, he was young and foolish when he did it, etc.' That is an extreme example, certainly, but someone mentioned hypocrisy, and I wanted to show the majority of these reactions are hypocritical in and of themselves.
And note, absence of political correctness does not equal presence of racism; my interpretation of political correctness is the hypersensitive, every-word-is-an-insult reactionary emotions that was so prevalent not too long ago. Some slang terms for groups of people can definitely be offensive [however, it apparently depends on who says the word.]
Personally, I'd be more offended by this quote:
"[Nancy Pelosi] turned to me with those big eyes of hers and said, 'Bob, what would you do if one of your daughters was raped by a black man? You would want an abortion.'"
But since she's a Democrat, we hear very little about it. If Trent Lott said that, he would have been impaled on a stick. Similar to what BDLOU says; it's only racist, or 'important' racism, if it's against blacks, or if it's from non-Democrats.
I understood the term he used to refer specifically to illegal Mexican immigrants, [whoops, the NAHJ says that's also an offensive or dehumanizing term, to be replaced by "undocumented worker," or "undocumented immigrant." Again, which I didn't know until I read that site.]who most likely had to swim at least a portion of the way, literally or figuratively swimming under a fence, thus getting wet backs [as anyone would who swims.] If that is an incorrect understanding, which according to that NAHJ site, it is, then I stand corrected with a new understanding.
If OReilly defined it the same way, but then was corrected and his understanding of it was increased, then he should be expected not to use it, out of respect for the general populace who might be offended by it. [If he meant it pejoratively from the beginning, then yes, that definitely is uncalled for.] Instead he's the subject of an in-depth article, and is being called a hypocrite, hated, and it's implied that he/his fans are ignorant/stupid.
But, and this is to point out illogic, many Democrats and liberals [who are most of the people causing and publicizing these explosive reactions to words], are against things like the death penalty or long prison terms, in favor of rehab. So to break it down: using a word, perhaps in ignorance [which is not the same thing as stupidity], is something that a person should be crucified for, and can never be taken back. But committing a crime, or killing someone, etc, well, we can rehab that, 'It's okay, he was young and foolish when he did it, etc.' That is an extreme example, certainly, but someone mentioned hypocrisy, and I wanted to show the majority of these reactions are hypocritical in and of themselves.
02-14-03, 09:25 AM
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• Quoth Gallant Pig •<HR SIZE=1>How does using a very derogative word in its correct context make it any more right and no big deal? <HR SIZE=1>
I refuse to let ignorant racists redefine the American language. The term "wetback" should never have been negative. It perfectly describes someone who illegally enters the country via water. To refer to all Mexicans or Americans of Mexican heritage as wetbacks is clearly offensive and has no place in society. To refer to those who do in fact have wet backs from their illegal activity should be different. Of course, it's not, because people allow themselves to get so offended by speech that's not intended in an offensive manner.
SouthWest Airlines is being sued because a Flight Attendant said, "Eenie meenie minie moe, pick a seat, we gotta go." My state flag was changed because a bunch of ****-ups perverted it into a symbol of hatred for a period of time. When does it stop? I'm tired of defining my life by the actions of stupid people. It's to the point where we can't do or say anything, because some jackass at some point in history did or said the same thing with negative intentions. The problem isn't the words; the problem is that we allow ourselves to be so affected by such nonsense.
To the Americans in the audience offended by his statement, I do agree that it's a sickening double standard how the Jesse Jacksons and Martha Burkes of the world won't stand up and fight for you like they will for their causes. I long for a time when people stop searching so desperately to be offended, but I fear we're destined find more and more things offensive every day until we can't breathe from it all.
das
P.S. Knowing the current state of affairs in PC society, regardless of it's meaning, it was stupid of O'Reilly to use the term.
02-14-03, 10:10 AM
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Originally posted by das Monkey
[B
I refuse to let ignorant racists redefine the American language. The term "wetback" should never have been negative. [/B]
[B
I refuse to let ignorant racists redefine the American language. The term "wetback" should never have been negative. [/B]
Yeah, and technically black people are "darkies" and "hebe" is just an endearing shortening for "Hebrew!"
If you don't see how "wetback" is meant to be insulting you're fooling yourself. (no insult intended, I just think you're simplifying things too much)
02-14-03, 10:24 AM
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Originally posted by das Monkey
I refuse to let ignorant racists redefine the American language. The term "wetback" should never have been negative. It perfectly describes someone who illegally enters the country via water.
• Quoth Gallant Pig •<HR SIZE=1>How does using a very derogative word in its correct context make it any more right and no big deal? <HR SIZE=1>
I refuse to let ignorant racists redefine the American language. The term "wetback" should never have been negative. It perfectly describes someone who illegally enters the country via water.
I don't think you understand what you are talking about.
02-14-03, 10:31 AM
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• Quoth buskerdog •<HR SIZE=1>Yeah, and technically black people are "darkies" and "hebe" is just an endearing shortening for "Hebrew!"<HR SIZE=1>
Also meaning no insult, I think you're oversimplifying. The terms you've used are interchangeable for the racial groups they describe, and that's completely different. In your example, "darkies" means "all black people" and "hebe" means "all Hebrews." "Wetback" doesn't mean "all Mexicans." And if you note, in every post I've said that anyone who uses the term in such manner is scum. But it wasn't used in that manner. It was used in description of illegal entry via water.
• Quoth buskerdog •<HR SIZE=1>If you don't see how "wetback" is meant to be insulting you're fooling yourself. (no insult intended, I just think you're simplifying things too much) <HR SIZE=1>
If "wetback" means "Mexican," that's insulting. If "wetback" means "person with wet back," that's something else entirely. Note that he didn't use the term to mean "Mexicans." He used the term to mean "people who illigally enter the country via water." He said "Mexican wetbacks," indicating that the term "wetback" needs qualification of what kind. In the case of his example, it's wetbacks coming from Mexico, and hence the term. You could just as easily have wetbacks from somewhere else; it's just not an issue since Canada and the US are so buddy-buddy [insert gratuitous Terrence & Phillip joke].
das
Last edited by das Monkey; 02-14-03 at 10:49 AM.
02-14-03, 10:52 AM
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• Quoth CharlesC •<HR SIZE=1>
I don't think you understand what you are talking about. <HR SIZE=1>
I'm very open to discussing this topic if you have more to offer than head-shakes and insults.
das
02-14-03, 11:21 AM
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Originally posted by das Monkey
If "wetback" means "Mexican," that's insulting. If "wetback" means "person with wet back," that's something else entirely.
If "wetback" means "Mexican," that's insulting. If "wetback" means "person with wet back," that's something else entirely.
02-14-03, 12:05 PM
#24
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• Quoth buskerdog •<HR SIZE=1>C'mon. That's semantic foolery. Do you call lifeguards and scuba divers "wetbacks?" That just doesn't make sense. Michael Jackson does the moonwalk but he's not an astronaut (although I wish they'd launch him into space, but without a space suit.) <HR SIZE=1>
That's a gross oversimplifaction of what I said. I didn't imply it was used to mean ALL people with wet backs, but that the intent was to focus on the water nature of the illegal crossing of the border not the fact that they were Mexicans.
Look, if we came up with another name to shortly describe the large group of people who illegally enter this country by swimming, sooner or later some dumbass racists will extend the term to refer to all Mexicans, and we'll be right back where we started. The way we handle this immigration situation is a clear issue in American policy (and the subject of O'Reilly's show in the first place), and we need some terminology. Should we just keep calling them "People Who Illegally Enter America Via Water" or maybe "watercrossers" or make up some fake word like "aquillegals?" Regardless, this is a group of people defined by their actions not their race. The fact that some people have chosen to abuse the term to extend to an entire race is unfortunate, but no matter what words we use to describe something, someone else is going to abuse it in a hateful manner.
Words and symbols are being stolen by hate-filled people, the word "fag," the swastika, the Confederate flag. These were things with clear and independent meaning until ignorant monsters perverted them into hate-filled symbols. The intent of my initial post was how much it pisses me off that we allow ourselves to be defined by these people, and no matter what we do to describe illegal immigrants (other than walking on eggshells), jerk-wads will always apply those terms unfairly to Mexicans as a whole.
das