cinemaman

just saw this on the Cyberhome website (I just got their 500)

"By law, all players shipped in the USA are set to region 1. It is not legal to provide any means of changing the region code to allow the use of other region's discs."

Does that mean anyone setting this (or any player) to region "ALL" is violating some kind of international law?

Isn't there a Malata that ships to the US region free?

am confused... want to see some non-region 1 discs, but want to be legal...

any insights on this??

samuelowens

For 'by law', read 'by terms of the license agreement set down by the DVD Forum'. They are required to ship a player set to R1. They are also entitled to ship it with a remote hack, because there is nothing illegal about importing movies for personal use.

mdm67

what the Cyberhome website writes is b******t
the world is a crazy place but no law has divided it in 6 DVD regions yet
DVD regions are a trade agreement between DVD manufacturers, movie studios and so on.
The only practical effect of all this is related to the loss of the manufacturer's warranty since to make code free a player you modify it, but usually sellers of freed DVD players provide themselves a warranty to their customers.
There is no law to violate here, that's all.

mdm67

dyerjp

i could care less what their site reads. i have two of their players, that play all regions and do the PAL to NTSC conversion.

bboisvert

As others have said, hacking a player to be region free may violate an agreement that a seller has with the manufacturer. It may violate your warranty. But it does not violate any law.

You (as a consumer) are doing absolutely nothing wrong by owning a region-free player.

cinemaman

Definitely feel better.

personally, I think the whole region coding thing seems to violate the entire concept of free enterprise. I mean, if Australia does a better version of a movie than the US, shouldn't the US lose money to australia per normal free market rules?

The only situation where this makes sense to me is in the case where a big budget movie (like two towers) is released on DVD in region 4 (not that far fetched since that is Jackson's native land) befofe the DVD hits the us. In that case, I can see where substantial amout of people would buy the Region 4 version to get it early, thus hurting US sales. Even worse would be the situation where the R4 DVD is released before the movie hits the US. I do think this would seriously hurt NewLine Cinema's US theatrical gross profits.. After all, why wait to see the movie in the US where you can buy the DVD (with tons of supplements) BEFORE you see the movie?

But, let's get real.. This situation is highly unlikely.. just mentioning that IN THEORY there may be some rationale behind region coding...

But since there are TONS of movies available in non-region 1 that will never (or maybe in years) be released in region 1, region coding just doesn't make sense at all.

got off topic --- but thanks again for the input... just what I was looking for.

pro-bassoonist

By the same token we should not have French food sold in the US as the only authentic French food was meant to be prepared and sold in France (or at least thats what we were thaught during our culinary class). I sure can not argue with this logic....it all about the free market....if you got better stuff I will buy from you....

Besides, there are too many damn "morality watchdogs" in the US that think that everytime we see some nudity something vicious will happen.......

tannersarms

I think the whole DVD region thing violates a world trade organisation agreement, but only the Australiain Goverment are doing anything about it (If I recall, complaints can only be brought by Governments and not individuals)

Hendrik

"...only the Australiain Goverment are doing anything about it..."

Yup!

. . . . . .

Hendrik

...incidentally, if region-free players were indeed 'illegal', would this very site dare advertise a special offer for this type of hardware ...

. . . . . .

braintez

The biggest reason why region coding exists is to protect revenue at the box office. Of course, to release a movie simultaneously worldwide theatrically, could not be common, given censorship and content laws in different countries. Either way, like others in this forum, I'll be buying the best release, because I'm available to view it. Love the Cyberhome player. The best $80.00 I've ever given to Best Buy.

Now the issue of releasing a Special Edition, then a Collector's edition, then an Ultimate edition, then the Everything-but-the-kitchen-sink edition is what bugs me.

Hendrik

...you forgot the "Everything-including-the-kitchen-sink" Ultimate Ultimate DeLuxe DeLuxe edition!...

. . . . . .

Stealth

hmmm and dvd-roms ?

braintez

"Everything-including-the-kitchen-sink" Ultimate Ultimate DeLuxe DeLuxe edition!

. . . missed that one . . . there goes more $$$ . . . !

young

riaa... :rubbingfingerssuggestingmoneymoney:

another reason for the regions is to combat piracy (yeah, it's really working ) china gets a region all to themselves. of course, they're the biggest producers of region-free stuff...

WhFastus

Sorry to dig up this old thread, but I read a few old usenet posts through Google Groups that suggested defeating region coding may be disallowed in the U.S. by the Digital Millenium Copyright Act (DMCA) because it circumvents "access controls".

Is anyone familiar with the DMCA & able to comment on this? I have a substantial tax refund coming & am considering buying a region free player with same. But I don't want to make such a purchase with a doubtful conscience.

Regards
Edward Curtis

pro-bassoonist

the only "doubtful" issue will be if you do not get one.....then I will say that there is something wrong with you.

A region-free player will broaden your knowledge about film like you have never even thought of it before......

djtoell

The relevant portion of the DMCA states: "No person shall circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title." 17 USC § 1201(a)(1)(A). So what does it mean to circumvent a techological measure? "[T]o "circumvent a technological measure" means to descramble a scrambled work, to decrypt an encrypted work, or otherwise to avoid, bypass, remove, deactivate, or impair a technological measure, without the authority of the copyright owner...." 17 USCS § 1201(a)(3)(A). And what is a technological measure that controls access to a copyrighted work? "[A] technological measure "effectively controls access to a work" if the measure, in the ordinary course of its operation, requires the application of information, or a process or a treatment, with the authority of the copyright owner, to gain access to the work. " 17 USCS § 1201(a)(3)(B).

So is region coding a technological measure that effectively controls access to a copyrighted work? To view a DVD from a certain region, you must apply a certain process to the disc in its ordinary course of operation in a DVD player; that is, you must use a DVD player from a certain region. The DMCA as not been litigated much, but CSS encryption has been found to be a technological measure that effectively controls access to copyrighted works. That is so because a consumer must apply the CSS decryption process built into a DVD player in order to view the disc. Without the use of a DVD player with CSS decryption, the disc is not watchable. Likewise, without a DVD player coded for a certain region, discs coded for those regions are not watchable. Both CSS encryption and region coding require a consumer to play their discs in certain approved DVD players in order to view their DVDs. If CSS is a technological measure that effectively controls access to copyrighted works, then so is region coding.

Is use of a region-free player a circumvention of a technological measure? Yes. This is certainly an "avoid[ance]" or "bypassing" of region coding by either modifying a DVD player or by using a player that has been programmed in violation of the manufacturer's contract with the licensors of DVD technology. Either appears to be a bypassing to me.

So I think it's almost certainly the case that use of a region-free DVD player to watch DVDs from regions other than the one in which you live (or, of course, region-free discs) constitutes a violation of the anti-circumvention provision of the DMCA. Whether you can make a purchase with a clean or doubtful conscience is up to you.

DJ

Jay G.

Of course, the legality of the DMCA is being questioned, as it seems to violate several 'fair use' provisions that other copyright laws contain.

djtoell

It gets questioned by internet communities often, of course, but Federal courts have upheld its constitutionality without problems thus far. The DMCA can't "violate" Fair Use, since Fair Use is just an exemption from copyright infringement liability. What are these "several" Fair Use provisions of which you speak, anyway? There is only one Fair Use law passed by Congress, 17 USC § 107. And what other copyright provisions do you believe it to "violate"?

Congress can pass a law, if it wishes, that still makes it illegal to do an action that might otherwise be Fair Use. There is no contradiction, since Fair Use is only an exception to copyright infringement: violating the anti-circumention provision of the DMCA is illegal unto itself, and not mere copyright infringement that has a Fair Use exception. You can theoretically be safe for taking a certain action under Fair Use and still violate the DMCA, and Congress is very much allowed to pass a law that creates such a situation. The actions are distinct from one another, and each can have sanctions unto themselves legislated by Congress without there being a problem. For the DMCA to be somehow "illegal," it would have to violate the Constitution and not merely be somehow inconsistent with the U.S. Copyright Act. And, frankly, I've yet to see a persuasive argument for the unconstitutionality of the DMCA.

The DMCA was passed in 1998, and, 5 years later, it's still in effect with no serious challenge to its constitutionality from a Federal court. I see nothing to stop this trend any time soon.

DJ

Jay G.

I stand corrected.

Still, changing the region code might fall under 'fair use,' and it doesn't look like the studios think region-free players are worth lawsuits, so I'd say they're ok.

djtoell

Fair Use is an exemption from liability for copyright infringement, not from circumvention of an access control. There is no Fair Use protection for circumventing region coding.

DJ

cinemaman

sounds like the thrust behind the law is to prevent people from hacking/tampering with DVD players to circumvente region coding.

But what about the Malata, or even the Cyber home 500 (which can be made region free via the setup menu). Would seeing non region 1 movies on these machines also be in violation?

And what about watching the PC to watch DVDs? Most PC's that I know of have a built-in feature to change the region code as part of the PC's function...

so is it software/hardware hacking that is illegal, or is it the viewing of the DVD itself?

fnordboy

Well unless you are using software, you can only change your DVD region setting on your DVD-ROM 5 times.

djtoell

Given that those features of those players themselves are probably not legal, the use of those features would also be a violation of the DMCA.

Quote:

so is it software/hardware hacking that is illegal, or is it the viewing of the DVD itself?

Using already-hacked software/hardware is illegal. You haven't actually circumvented an access control until you've applied it to a copyrighted work, right? So, once you use hacked software/hardware to view a disc, you have then circumvented an access control. Watching a DVD using hacked software/hardware is an illegal circumvention of an access control.

The creation of hacking software/hardware is a different illegal act unto itself: "No person shall manufacture, import, offer to the public, provide, or otherwise traffic in any technology, product, service, device, component, or part thereof, that...is primarily designed or produced for the purpose of circumventing a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title...." 17 USCS § 1201(a)(2)(A). Use of such software is then a circumvention of an access control.

DJ