The One and Only BigCD.com Problem Thread
02-16-02, 06:32 PM
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The One and Only BigCD.com Problem Thread
All,
I've gotten some e-mail from DVD Talk Members after closing the origional 'Does BigCD have a good reputation thread' indicating a real need to have a thread open to discuss the BigCD problems.
I want to lay some SERIOUS groundrules here. It's EXTREMELY important that this thread stay miopically focused on the real issues. Let's not have this thread degrade into a Bashing thread. We all know this situation really sucks, now it's important to come together and help eachother get it resolved.
One thing that greatly concerns me is an e-mail that was forwarded to me today from BigCD.com which was sent to members who tried to cancel their orders:
Unfortunately, this is not compliant with the FTC's 'Mail or Telephone Order Merchandise Rule '
Given this new information, that people trying to cancel orders are being refused we advise you to follow the instructions from the FTC for filing a formal dispute with your credit card company. See:
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/credit/billed.htm
We hope that BigCD.com can ultimately find a solution to thier corporate problems, but in the mean time we hope they find a way to comply with the FTC rules for customer orders and allow people to cancel orders if they want to.
AGAIN. IF YOU POST TO THIS THREAD, IT MUST BE CONSTRUCTIVE. THIS IS NOT A THREAD TO BASH BIGCD OR THE OWNER MIKE, WE ALL KNOW HOW FOULED UP THE SITUATION IS.
This thread is ONLY for discussing and detailing customer problems and the solutions which have worked. (ie advice about contacting credit card companies, who to report issues with, and sucess in getting things resolved)
- G
I've gotten some e-mail from DVD Talk Members after closing the origional 'Does BigCD have a good reputation thread' indicating a real need to have a thread open to discuss the BigCD problems.
I want to lay some SERIOUS groundrules here. It's EXTREMELY important that this thread stay miopically focused on the real issues. Let's not have this thread degrade into a Bashing thread. We all know this situation really sucks, now it's important to come together and help eachother get it resolved.
One thing that greatly concerns me is an e-mail that was forwarded to me today from BigCD.com which was sent to members who tried to cancel their orders:
Orders cannot be cancelled or refunded. Thats just how it is. I can't do anything about it. There is no money here to refund orders it's all being processed and sent to pay for the orders.
---
By law, a merchant should ship your order within the time stated in its ads or over the phone. If the merchant doesn't promise a time, you can expect it to ship your order within 30 days.
---
If the merchant is unable to ship within the promised time, it must notify you by mail, telephone, or email, give a revised shipping date and give you the chance to cancel for a full refund or accept the new shipping date. The merchant also must give you some way to exercise the cancellation option for free, for example, by supplying a prepaid reply card or staffing a toll-free telephone number.
---
By law, a merchant should ship your order within the time stated in its ads or over the phone. If the merchant doesn't promise a time, you can expect it to ship your order within 30 days.
---
If the merchant is unable to ship within the promised time, it must notify you by mail, telephone, or email, give a revised shipping date and give you the chance to cancel for a full refund or accept the new shipping date. The merchant also must give you some way to exercise the cancellation option for free, for example, by supplying a prepaid reply card or staffing a toll-free telephone number.
---
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/credit/billed.htm
We hope that BigCD.com can ultimately find a solution to thier corporate problems, but in the mean time we hope they find a way to comply with the FTC rules for customer orders and allow people to cancel orders if they want to.
AGAIN. IF YOU POST TO THIS THREAD, IT MUST BE CONSTRUCTIVE. THIS IS NOT A THREAD TO BASH BIGCD OR THE OWNER MIKE, WE ALL KNOW HOW FOULED UP THE SITUATION IS.
This thread is ONLY for discussing and detailing customer problems and the solutions which have worked. (ie advice about contacting credit card companies, who to report issues with, and sucess in getting things resolved)
- G
02-16-02, 07:11 PM
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Although I did not place an order with BigCD.com I can imagine your frustration. I have been keeping up with and reading the threads concerning BigCD.com and have a few opinions of my own.
I agree with Geoff we don't need to bash each other either on this forum or elsewhere. That being said, on one hand I feel somewhat sorry for Mike and his mom, especially if he is being called all hours of the night and being threatened. Stop and think for a moment would you like this to happen to you? His problems can definitely be plausible, remember don't jump to conclusions.
I believe Mike shouldn't be taking any more orders until this situation is sorted out. You mentioned that you put the site back up so that those that placed orders could continue to check their status. Is there any way for you to disable ordering but to keep you order status up?
I am also concerned about Mike's response to customers whom are trying to cancel orders. Yes, this is not compliant with the FTC as Geoff pointed out. However, according to what Mike has been saying, all of his money is tied up by his Credit Card processor. Even if he wanted to refund the money I take it that he can't. I would put more blame on them. His message was blunt and to the point but please stay positive, I can understand that all of the bashing has put a strain on the business to customer relationship.
Since, the only other option customers have is to refute their charges with the CC company this could definately put BigCD out of business. Remember, he mentioned that for every reversed charge which was disputed he is being charged a $35 fee. This will quickly erode the funds that are locked by the CC processors. If this happens it will be very unlikely anyone receives their orders.
I know many had concerns about Mike's spending habits. Many have suggested that he may have taken the money from customers' orders and applied that toward his band. Mike may have spent the profits from shipped orders and appplied that toward his band, instead of the funds from outstanding orders as many might believe. If that were the case, it may not have been a good business decision but he would have been in the right had it been his salary. If he is spending money from unshipped orders then that would be frowned upon.
That being said I hope BigCD can overcome this mess and be successful. I also hope that everyone whom placed an order with BigCD will receive a satifactory resoluton, either the items they ordered or a refund. Stay positive this will help both sides.
Another thought ... what if those that placed orders with BigCD contacted Mike's CC processor to complain about their practices and how dissatified you are with them holding your money? This could help both parties in getting orders/refunds processed.
I agree with Geoff we don't need to bash each other either on this forum or elsewhere. That being said, on one hand I feel somewhat sorry for Mike and his mom, especially if he is being called all hours of the night and being threatened. Stop and think for a moment would you like this to happen to you? His problems can definitely be plausible, remember don't jump to conclusions.
I believe Mike shouldn't be taking any more orders until this situation is sorted out. You mentioned that you put the site back up so that those that placed orders could continue to check their status. Is there any way for you to disable ordering but to keep you order status up?
I am also concerned about Mike's response to customers whom are trying to cancel orders. Yes, this is not compliant with the FTC as Geoff pointed out. However, according to what Mike has been saying, all of his money is tied up by his Credit Card processor. Even if he wanted to refund the money I take it that he can't. I would put more blame on them. His message was blunt and to the point but please stay positive, I can understand that all of the bashing has put a strain on the business to customer relationship.
Since, the only other option customers have is to refute their charges with the CC company this could definately put BigCD out of business. Remember, he mentioned that for every reversed charge which was disputed he is being charged a $35 fee. This will quickly erode the funds that are locked by the CC processors. If this happens it will be very unlikely anyone receives their orders.
I know many had concerns about Mike's spending habits. Many have suggested that he may have taken the money from customers' orders and applied that toward his band. Mike may have spent the profits from shipped orders and appplied that toward his band, instead of the funds from outstanding orders as many might believe. If that were the case, it may not have been a good business decision but he would have been in the right had it been his salary. If he is spending money from unshipped orders then that would be frowned upon.
That being said I hope BigCD can overcome this mess and be successful. I also hope that everyone whom placed an order with BigCD will receive a satifactory resoluton, either the items they ordered or a refund. Stay positive this will help both sides.
Another thought ... what if those that placed orders with BigCD contacted Mike's CC processor to complain about their practices and how dissatified you are with them holding your money? This could help both parties in getting orders/refunds processed.
02-16-02, 07:47 PM
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Since BigCD forwarded the orders to the jobbers (who apparently have the moneys tied up), it would be logical that it is BigCD responsibility to "cancel" these orders with the jobbers. I have ordered from BigCD in the past and it is the jobbers that ship, not BigCD. This would be better all around (as already noted) than having everyone dispute the charges with their CC. However, there is a normal window of only 60 days to do the latter. If BigCD can't find a way to contact the jobbers and cancel orders, the customers are left with no other recourse.
02-16-02, 10:39 PM
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Originally posted by rdodolak
Since, the only other option customers have is to refute their charges with the CC company this could definately put BigCD out of business. Remember, he mentioned that for every reversed charge which was disputed he is being charged a $35 fee. This will quickly erode the funds that are locked by the CC processors. If this happens it will be very unlikely anyone receives their orders.
Since, the only other option customers have is to refute their charges with the CC company this could definately put BigCD out of business. Remember, he mentioned that for every reversed charge which was disputed he is being charged a $35 fee. This will quickly erode the funds that are locked by the CC processors. If this happens it will be very unlikely anyone receives their orders.
People have been charged for merchandise that has not shipped and quite probably will never ship. It makes no sense (from the customer's perspective) to NOT dispute the charges. Why should people let a charge sit on their card in the hopes that this situation gets straightened out? Better to dispute the charge and just move on with life.
BigCD.com may be having problems, but they aren't OUR problems. They are BigCD's. My advice to everyone who has been charged is to dispute the charges immediately, since BigCD is refusing to cancel orders or give refunds for charges.
02-17-02, 02:15 AM
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Frozen- No offense, but your wrong on a few points in your post.
1)The $35 fee that Mike was talking about is the actual chargeback fee the card processor charges the merchant for each chargeback. So yes it's true. Most card processors charge around $20, but if he got set up through a retailer or agent they may mark that up to make a couple extra bucks over and beyond the actual chargeback fee charged by the card processor.
2) Card processor company's don't always hold funds from a merchant. This is based on a couple of different things. How the merchant's credit is and if he previously had another card processor company, how many chargebacks (excessive or not). They also will start holding funds if you are having excessive chargebacks with them or you go over your monthly allotted processing amount. Visa and MasterCard don't like to see more that around 1% of the total number of transactions coming back as chargebacks.
3) Card processors base everything on the MERCHANTS credit. So basically when you get a merchant account they will decide on how much they will allow you to process a month depending on a couple of principle's, credit history, what your selling, average ticket amount, how your selling it (internet, mail-order, retail store front, etc.), you get the point. Anyway, they figure out what they will grant you in monthly volume and they are basically giving you a signature loan (in so many words) saying that you will be liable if you have let's say chargebacks and don't have the $ to cover them. So as to your point that a credit card processor can go after him criminally is incorrect, the fraud was not committed against the card processor, it was commented against the customer. So the customers can file complaints to get an investigation started with correct agency. Since this crosses state lines and uses the US Mail, it becomes a federal offense and not a city or county offense (one of the first things they teach you in the academy when studying fraud laws here in Ca). Getting back to the credit card processors. They can only pursue you civilly and NOT criminally. It's like a bank loaning you money and you default on your loan, same thing. They can't have you arrested, they can only sue you civilly.
Maybe I will give some more enlightenment later, I'm getting sick of typing.
By the way Frozen, what state are you a cop in? I'm betting Midwest or back east!?!? LOL
1)The $35 fee that Mike was talking about is the actual chargeback fee the card processor charges the merchant for each chargeback. So yes it's true. Most card processors charge around $20, but if he got set up through a retailer or agent they may mark that up to make a couple extra bucks over and beyond the actual chargeback fee charged by the card processor.
2) Card processor company's don't always hold funds from a merchant. This is based on a couple of different things. How the merchant's credit is and if he previously had another card processor company, how many chargebacks (excessive or not). They also will start holding funds if you are having excessive chargebacks with them or you go over your monthly allotted processing amount. Visa and MasterCard don't like to see more that around 1% of the total number of transactions coming back as chargebacks.
3) Card processors base everything on the MERCHANTS credit. So basically when you get a merchant account they will decide on how much they will allow you to process a month depending on a couple of principle's, credit history, what your selling, average ticket amount, how your selling it (internet, mail-order, retail store front, etc.), you get the point. Anyway, they figure out what they will grant you in monthly volume and they are basically giving you a signature loan (in so many words) saying that you will be liable if you have let's say chargebacks and don't have the $ to cover them. So as to your point that a credit card processor can go after him criminally is incorrect, the fraud was not committed against the card processor, it was commented against the customer. So the customers can file complaints to get an investigation started with correct agency. Since this crosses state lines and uses the US Mail, it becomes a federal offense and not a city or county offense (one of the first things they teach you in the academy when studying fraud laws here in Ca). Getting back to the credit card processors. They can only pursue you civilly and NOT criminally. It's like a bank loaning you money and you default on your loan, same thing. They can't have you arrested, they can only sue you civilly.
Maybe I will give some more enlightenment later, I'm getting sick of typing.
By the way Frozen, what state are you a cop in? I'm betting Midwest or back east!?!? LOL
Last edited by dvde; 02-17-02 at 02:30 AM.
02-17-02, 01:46 PM
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Originally posted by rdodolak
I agree with Geoff we don't need to bash each other either on this forum or elsewhere. That being said, on one hand I feel somewhat sorry for Mike and his mom, especially if he is being called all hours of the night and being threatened. Stop and think for a moment would you like this to happen to you? His problems can definitely be plausible, remember don't jump to conclusions.
I agree with Geoff we don't need to bash each other either on this forum or elsewhere. That being said, on one hand I feel somewhat sorry for Mike and his mom, especially if he is being called all hours of the night and being threatened. Stop and think for a moment would you like this to happen to you? His problems can definitely be plausible, remember don't jump to conclusions.
Originally posted by rdodolak
I believe Mike shouldn't be taking any more orders until this situation is sorted out. You mentioned that you put the site back up so that those that placed orders could continue to check their status. Is there any way for you to disable ordering but to keep you order status up?
I believe Mike shouldn't be taking any more orders until this situation is sorted out. You mentioned that you put the site back up so that those that placed orders could continue to check their status. Is there any way for you to disable ordering but to keep you order status up?
Originally posted by rdodolak
I am also concerned about Mike's response to customers whom are trying to cancel orders. Yes, this is not compliant with the FTC as Geoff pointed out. However, according to what Mike has been saying, all of his money is tied up by his Credit Card processor. Even if he wanted to refund the money I take it that he can't. I would put more blame on them. His message was blunt and to the point but please stay positive, I can understand that all of the bashing has put a strain on the business to customer relationship.
I am also concerned about Mike's response to customers whom are trying to cancel orders. Yes, this is not compliant with the FTC as Geoff pointed out. However, according to what Mike has been saying, all of his money is tied up by his Credit Card processor. Even if he wanted to refund the money I take it that he can't. I would put more blame on them. His message was blunt and to the point but please stay positive, I can understand that all of the bashing has put a strain on the business to customer relationship.
Originally posted by rdodolak
Since, the only other option customers have is to refute their charges with the CC company this could definately put BigCD out of business. Remember, he mentioned that for every reversed charge which was disputed he is being charged a $35 fee. This will quickly erode the funds that are locked by the CC processors. If this happens it will be very unlikely anyone receives their orders.
Since, the only other option customers have is to refute their charges with the CC company this could definately put BigCD out of business. Remember, he mentioned that for every reversed charge which was disputed he is being charged a $35 fee. This will quickly erode the funds that are locked by the CC processors. If this happens it will be very unlikely anyone receives their orders.
The longer folks wait to dispute the charges on their card, the less likely they will be able to receive a full refund on their charges. Most CC only cover fraudulent charges over $50.00, when there is no longer any money left to recover from BigCD's Credit Card Processor, sorry charlie....
Originally posted by rdodolak
Another thought ... what if those that placed orders with BigCD contacted Mike's CC processor to complain about their practices and how dissatified you are with them holding your money? This could help both parties in getting orders/refunds processed.
Another thought ... what if those that placed orders with BigCD contacted Mike's CC processor to complain about their practices and how dissatified you are with them holding your money? This could help both parties in getting orders/refunds processed.
Proactive steps (to protect future victims):
File complaints with the
USPS http://www.usps.gov/postalinspectors...dComplaint.htm
FTC https://rn.ftc.gov/dod/wsolcq$.startup?Z_ORG_CODE=PU01
Michigan State Attorney https://www.ag.state.mi.us/forms/w3htc_c01_new.asp (server seems down at the present)
Reactive steps (to protect yourself as a current customer) Contact your credit card company immediately and inform them of BigCD's current practices (charging credit card before shipment, refusal to offer refunds required by federal law, non-shipment of promised merchandise, etc.).
Originally emailed by [email protected]
Following is the latest (2/17/02) auto response to customer inquiries at BigCD.com
Hello everyone. This is Saturday so this really won't have much updated
information in it. Orders were again about to start shipping last week but
there was another delay. The orders must be reconciled at the distirbutor so
they say before they will start shipping again. That means they have to
count up all the order totals then start shipping until there is no more
money to ship with, because they revoked big.com's credit line.
I have so many emails to respond to so I am just sending this form response
I couldn't personally respond to each one with any specifics on any orders.
So first of all orders cannot be cancelled or refunded because they are
already in. There is no money here to refund an order with because the
distributor has it all or the card processor is holding it. You can refuse a
package if you wish and it would get returned to me however you would not be
able to get a credit on your card because there is no money. People that are
contacting the credit card companies are only making the situation worse for
bigcd as well as for other customers because if they keep charging back
products the Credit Card Processor will never release the money they are
holding and they tack a $35 fee on that's more money for shipping orders
that will not be available.
There is no scam or theft being perpetrated if there is any scam or ********
going on it's what these companies are doing to me the disregard they have
for your orders and the situation in general. Emailing here with threats or
calling on the machine will do nothing to save the company. The only thing
that will save the company is to get A: Line of credit by having an private
investor(s) with Collateral and or Capitol because I have neither. B:
Getting a much better credit card processor. Things could be back to normal
in no time really if these two criterias were met.
I can't guarantee all the orders will ship but I know if they start using
the money sitting there a ton of them will. The bottom line is any internet
business needs a credit line to operate and bigcd's was revoked. Also the
more times anyone emails here with the same message the bigger delay this
puts on everything so please only email once.
Mike
Following is the latest (2/17/02) auto response to customer inquiries at BigCD.com
Hello everyone. This is Saturday so this really won't have much updated
information in it. Orders were again about to start shipping last week but
there was another delay. The orders must be reconciled at the distirbutor so
they say before they will start shipping again. That means they have to
count up all the order totals then start shipping until there is no more
money to ship with, because they revoked big.com's credit line.
I have so many emails to respond to so I am just sending this form response
I couldn't personally respond to each one with any specifics on any orders.
So first of all orders cannot be cancelled or refunded because they are
already in. There is no money here to refund an order with because the
distributor has it all or the card processor is holding it. You can refuse a
package if you wish and it would get returned to me however you would not be
able to get a credit on your card because there is no money. People that are
contacting the credit card companies are only making the situation worse for
bigcd as well as for other customers because if they keep charging back
products the Credit Card Processor will never release the money they are
holding and they tack a $35 fee on that's more money for shipping orders
that will not be available.
There is no scam or theft being perpetrated if there is any scam or ********
going on it's what these companies are doing to me the disregard they have
for your orders and the situation in general. Emailing here with threats or
calling on the machine will do nothing to save the company. The only thing
that will save the company is to get A: Line of credit by having an private
investor(s) with Collateral and or Capitol because I have neither. B:
Getting a much better credit card processor. Things could be back to normal
in no time really if these two criterias were met.
I can't guarantee all the orders will ship but I know if they start using
the money sitting there a ton of them will. The bottom line is any internet
business needs a credit line to operate and bigcd's was revoked. Also the
more times anyone emails here with the same message the bigger delay this
puts on everything so please only email once.
Mike
02-17-02, 01:57 PM
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For those planning to dispute CC charges, you have sixty days from the start of the charges. If the merchant manages to placate you past those sixty days, then you are technically no longer protected by the USA credit card laws as to filing a dispute with your credit card company to have the amount credited to your card.
02-17-02, 02:21 PM
#8
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Originally posted by Startide
For those planning to dispute CC charges, you have sixty days from the start of the charges. If the merchant manages to placate you past those sixty days, then you are technically no longer protected by the USA credit card laws as to filing a dispute with your credit card company to have the amount credited to your card.
For those planning to dispute CC charges, you have sixty days from the start of the charges. If the merchant manages to placate you past those sixty days, then you are technically no longer protected by the USA credit card laws as to filing a dispute with your credit card company to have the amount credited to your card.
02-18-02, 11:21 AM
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I'd call the credit cards now if I were you.
This is a business. Not some handout. If a businessman cannot deliver the goods within a reasonable time (30 days), charges your cc and does not contact you about any delay it's a bad deal. Period. The basic fact is that the cc should not have been charged until the item shipped. Doing otherwise is illegal and poor business. My advice is to not hope that BigCD somehow gets a magical pill and can actually get the merchandise you ordered and call your credit card company. It's much easier for them to go after BigCD for it's horrible (illegal) practices than it would be for you if you wait too long.
02-18-02, 04:04 PM
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I was relaying this strange, twisted tale to my officemate, and he suggested that all of the victims involved contact the FBI's Internet Fraud Complaint Center , sounded like a reasonable idea to me, and I didn't find any mention of the IFCC via Search, so just wanted to post it in case it helps. Good luck!
02-18-02, 04:26 PM
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I just found out about this thread today from a friend, and I must say, my heart goes out to all of you that have been struck by this problem. I am by no means a law expert but I do have a useful link for everyone to check out. I have seen a lot of links posted for people to post fraud claims and such but the one I have is dedicated to internet fraud cases. Goto: http://www1.ifccfbi.gov/index.asp and post your complaint.
Good luck to everyone, and as for Mike, in the words of the great Abraham Simpson: "For shame!"
Good luck to everyone, and as for Mike, in the words of the great Abraham Simpson: "For shame!"
02-18-02, 04:34 PM
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Ya so me and my "office mate" have a great level of communication going on. I had left my office for a while and had mentioned the IFCC website to him earlier today (when he told me about the thread here). So while I was gone, and the IFCC webpage was up on my screen, he posted the address here. The funny part is, I was registering to be a member at this site while he was posting his reply and I had no idea. So anyways, I thought that was too funny to not share with you guys. I think you can all use a little laugh right now anyways. 
02-19-02, 10:55 AM
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Um, your credit card company may state that you have 6 months, but the law only protects you for 60 days. I would re-read your terms and conditions regarding 6 month protection, in fact, it is probably full of loopholes that the credit card can dodge.
02-19-02, 12:32 PM
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I've gotten a number of e-mails from Mike with updates on the situation and he's been working with Ingram on getting orders out but they have been less than willing to work with him on a solution.
It's still a mess but since he can't post, Mike desperately wanted to communicate to DVDTalkers that he is working on cleaning up this mess.
It's still a mess but since he can't post, Mike desperately wanted to communicate to DVDTalkers that he is working on cleaning up this mess.
02-19-02, 02:44 PM
#15
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Originally posted by chanster
Um, your credit card company may state that you have 6 months, but the law only protects you for 60 days. I would re-read your terms and conditions regarding 6 month protection, in fact, it is probably full of loopholes that the credit card can dodge.
Um, your credit card company may state that you have 6 months, but the law only protects you for 60 days. I would re-read your terms and conditions regarding 6 month protection, in fact, it is probably full of loopholes that the credit card can dodge.
02-19-02, 09:31 PM
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Originally posted by dvde
I've disputed charges 5 months after they have been charged and I got my money back with no problem what so ever. Also, my credit card processor also has told me that customers have up to 6 months to dispute any charges on there credit cards. I would love to know where you found the law that you are referring to.
I've disputed charges 5 months after they have been charged and I got my money back with no problem what so ever. Also, my credit card processor also has told me that customers have up to 6 months to dispute any charges on there credit cards. I would love to know where you found the law that you are referring to.
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/credit/fcb.htm
The dispute period is normally printed on the back of credit card statements, or linked somewhere on the card processor's web site if you receive electronic statements.
02-19-02, 11:00 PM
#17
Senior Member
Originally posted by happypants
From the FTC - Fair Credit Billing Act
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/credit/fcb.htm
The dispute period is normally printed on the back of credit card statements, or linked somewhere on the card processor's web site if you receive electronic statements.
From the FTC - Fair Credit Billing Act
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/credit/fcb.htm
The dispute period is normally printed on the back of credit card statements, or linked somewhere on the card processor's web site if you receive electronic statements.
02-20-02, 08:02 AM
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Originally posted by Startide
For those planning to dispute CC charges, you have sixty days from the start of the charges. If the merchant manages to placate you past those sixty days, then you are technically no longer protected by the USA credit card laws as to filing a dispute with your credit card company to have the amount credited to your card.
Originally posted by dvde
Actually it depends on you credit card company. With the card I use for my internet purchases, I have 6 months.
However, the law indicates that the minimum is sixty days. The fine print on my CC indicate that the CC company has their own time period which may allow disputes over 60 days, but the terms may change at anytime according to the CC. Regardless of what the CC company gives as "good will" to you, the law does limit the CC company to no less than 60 days.
So, if you want to catch a company in violation of the FEDERAL law, you will want to act within 60 days of billing.
As Chanster said earlier, the 60 days limit gives you the FEDERAL protection. Beyond 60 days, you have to count on the CC company's "good will" to protect you as the federally mandated minimum protection criteria is no longer in effect. If what you want is to apply the federal kick in the pants to a potentially fraudlent seller who uses your money with the intent for the business to declare bankruptcy later on, well, you want to act within 60 days in writing (not just a phone call). And file a complaint with the FTC/USPS in order to "cement" the date of dispute.
FOLLOWUP:
When Chanster mentioned loopholes in your CC agreements, they do exist. A number of loopholes have been gradually "tested" and added in the past years to weaken the consumers' ability to use the federal laws to burden the CC companies. For example:
He got even angrier when he learned he had lost any right to take the company to court – all because of a tiny clause in the credit card agreement.
"I wasn't aware that I had signed away my rights," said Dale.
According to the company, his only recourse was mandatory arbitration – a process involving an independent third party to settle the dispute.
For those planning to dispute CC charges, you have sixty days from the start of the charges. If the merchant manages to placate you past those sixty days, then you are technically no longer protected by the USA credit card laws as to filing a dispute with your credit card company to have the amount credited to your card.
Originally posted by dvde
Actually it depends on you credit card company. With the card I use for my internet purchases, I have 6 months.
However, the law indicates that the minimum is sixty days. The fine print on my CC indicate that the CC company has their own time period which may allow disputes over 60 days, but the terms may change at anytime according to the CC. Regardless of what the CC company gives as "good will" to you, the law does limit the CC company to no less than 60 days.
So, if you want to catch a company in violation of the FEDERAL law, you will want to act within 60 days of billing.
As Chanster said earlier, the 60 days limit gives you the FEDERAL protection. Beyond 60 days, you have to count on the CC company's "good will" to protect you as the federally mandated minimum protection criteria is no longer in effect. If what you want is to apply the federal kick in the pants to a potentially fraudlent seller who uses your money with the intent for the business to declare bankruptcy later on, well, you want to act within 60 days in writing (not just a phone call). And file a complaint with the FTC/USPS in order to "cement" the date of dispute.
FOLLOWUP:
When Chanster mentioned loopholes in your CC agreements, they do exist. A number of loopholes have been gradually "tested" and added in the past years to weaken the consumers' ability to use the federal laws to burden the CC companies. For example:
He got even angrier when he learned he had lost any right to take the company to court – all because of a tiny clause in the credit card agreement.
"I wasn't aware that I had signed away my rights," said Dale.
According to the company, his only recourse was mandatory arbitration – a process involving an independent third party to settle the dispute.
Last edited by Startide; 02-20-02 at 02:47 PM.
02-20-02, 02:04 PM
#19
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from mike at bigcd
Wed: heres the customer update.
Good news and bad news to report.
The good news is the Half.com based orders should be shipping now with an
legal agreement that was forced on me by half.com essentially in a threat of
federal and legal action. So that's the good news sort of because I'm glad
something is being sent out. So I'm sure some 3,500 orders will be arriving
soon. Know what whatever orders that are out of stock and what have you will
nto be shipped but I am sure you will be issued a refund then as half.com
has legal control of these orders at this point.
The bad news is that Ingram would not release my orders from my store itself
first as I have been requesting for a while now (even as they have had money
for the orders). So Half.com intervined and used the money to ship the
orders that came in there. So when I find out the credit balance of money
left over after the half.com orders sent out I will continue to try to get
my own bigcd orders released.
I don't exactly know if this means I am out of business or what the
situation is. I easily could be back in business in no time it's just a
matter if these companies want to help out to get your orders out. The
situation could easily be turned around if they cared about your orders. I'm
doing all I can but it's really up to Ingram entertainment to care. They are
the supplier most of the online, and brick and mortar stores for video
products. They are the largest distributor of video product in the world, so
you can imagine what kind of business bs I have to put up with.
I cannot give refunds out as I've used all the money to pay for the orders
of what I could. The card processor is still withholding $10,000 that is
customers money to pay for orders. If worse comes to worse I will make out a
personal IOU and print it out and store it in my box and then fullfill it
when I am financially able to. I am not a crook, thief, scam artist or what
have you so please don't think me me as such. This nightmare chain of events
was started just from the fact of my credit card processor holding money
from me because the business was becoming successful and was processing a
large amount of orders. So the moral of this story is if you are starting a
business make sure it doesn't do well or they will do everything they can to
shut you down.
I don't return phone calls because I can't pay for the bill and I don't pick
up the phone anymore because how many ways is there to explain this and say
I'm sorry?
Mike
Good news and bad news to report.
The good news is the Half.com based orders should be shipping now with an
legal agreement that was forced on me by half.com essentially in a threat of
federal and legal action. So that's the good news sort of because I'm glad
something is being sent out. So I'm sure some 3,500 orders will be arriving
soon. Know what whatever orders that are out of stock and what have you will
nto be shipped but I am sure you will be issued a refund then as half.com
has legal control of these orders at this point.
The bad news is that Ingram would not release my orders from my store itself
first as I have been requesting for a while now (even as they have had money
for the orders). So Half.com intervined and used the money to ship the
orders that came in there. So when I find out the credit balance of money
left over after the half.com orders sent out I will continue to try to get
my own bigcd orders released.
I don't exactly know if this means I am out of business or what the
situation is. I easily could be back in business in no time it's just a
matter if these companies want to help out to get your orders out. The
situation could easily be turned around if they cared about your orders. I'm
doing all I can but it's really up to Ingram entertainment to care. They are
the supplier most of the online, and brick and mortar stores for video
products. They are the largest distributor of video product in the world, so
you can imagine what kind of business bs I have to put up with.
I cannot give refunds out as I've used all the money to pay for the orders
of what I could. The card processor is still withholding $10,000 that is
customers money to pay for orders. If worse comes to worse I will make out a
personal IOU and print it out and store it in my box and then fullfill it
when I am financially able to. I am not a crook, thief, scam artist or what
have you so please don't think me me as such. This nightmare chain of events
was started just from the fact of my credit card processor holding money
from me because the business was becoming successful and was processing a
large amount of orders. So the moral of this story is if you are starting a
business make sure it doesn't do well or they will do everything they can to
shut you down.
I don't return phone calls because I can't pay for the bill and I don't pick
up the phone anymore because how many ways is there to explain this and say
I'm sorry?
Mike
02-20-02, 02:38 PM
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Summary of how to protect myself
can u all summarize in the multiple threads placed here what we should do to make sure we don't get scr*wed by shopping at bigcd.com.....
1) I've already called my credit card 2 weeks ago to challenge the charge w/out getting the product
2) I've just sent bigcd.com my demand to have my 1st, only and last order w/ bigcd.com CANCELLED
other than that what should I do .....?
thanx ahead of time.
1) I've already called my credit card 2 weeks ago to challenge the charge w/out getting the product
2) I've just sent bigcd.com my demand to have my 1st, only and last order w/ bigcd.com CANCELLED
other than that what should I do .....?
thanx ahead of time.
02-21-02, 11:48 AM
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Half.com update on BigCD
I just happened upon the long ol' thread about BigCD this morning after searching for it. I placed an order with them about a month ago and never got the thing, then got the following email from half.com this morning:
Dear Half.com Customer,
Recently, you placed an order with the Half.com seller BIGCD. BIGCD confirmed your order, and you've been expecting your purchase to arrive in the mail.
Unfortunately, we've learned that this seller has experienced financial difficulty and is having some trouble shipping your purchase. We realize that this is an inconvenience and a poor buying experience for you.
At Half.com, we strive to make every buyer experience a great one. For this reason, we're taking the following steps:
1.We're working with another seller to get your product. We'll try to have as many orders filled as possible. If you don't want the product anymore, simply reply to this email. We'll give you instructions on how to return it and get a refund.
2. If we can't get your product, we'll refund your credit card. We'll
process these refunds over the next few days. If you're not getting your shipment, you'll see your refund on your credit card statement within the next 5-7 days.
3. We're sending you a coupon to help make up for all of the trouble you've experienced. This coupon is for $5.00 off an order of $10.00 or more (not including shipping and handling charges). Enter the code XXXXXXXXX while in your shopping cart to redeem this coupon.
We'll be emailing you again by Friday afternoon to let you know the final disposition of your order.
We sincerely apologize for this inconvenience. Your patronage is important to us. We hope that you'll continue to shop at Half.com.
Regards,
The Half.com Team
I have no intention of bashing anyone, just wanted you to know I'm getting my $$$ back + a $5 off $10 coupon (one time use).
I'm sure this will effect others. If this post in anyway violates some rule please let me know and I'll delete it.
Dear Half.com Customer,
Recently, you placed an order with the Half.com seller BIGCD. BIGCD confirmed your order, and you've been expecting your purchase to arrive in the mail.
Unfortunately, we've learned that this seller has experienced financial difficulty and is having some trouble shipping your purchase. We realize that this is an inconvenience and a poor buying experience for you.
At Half.com, we strive to make every buyer experience a great one. For this reason, we're taking the following steps:
1.We're working with another seller to get your product. We'll try to have as many orders filled as possible. If you don't want the product anymore, simply reply to this email. We'll give you instructions on how to return it and get a refund.
2. If we can't get your product, we'll refund your credit card. We'll
process these refunds over the next few days. If you're not getting your shipment, you'll see your refund on your credit card statement within the next 5-7 days.
3. We're sending you a coupon to help make up for all of the trouble you've experienced. This coupon is for $5.00 off an order of $10.00 or more (not including shipping and handling charges). Enter the code XXXXXXXXX while in your shopping cart to redeem this coupon.
We'll be emailing you again by Friday afternoon to let you know the final disposition of your order.
We sincerely apologize for this inconvenience. Your patronage is important to us. We hope that you'll continue to shop at Half.com.
Regards,
The Half.com Team
I have no intention of bashing anyone, just wanted you to know I'm getting my $$$ back + a $5 off $10 coupon (one time use).
I'm sure this will effect others. If this post in anyway violates some rule please let me know and I'll delete it.
02-22-02, 10:07 PM
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Shipping Option Problem?
I am curious if I made a mistake when placing my order (no jokes, please) and accidentally requested priority shipping or is the default set to priority mail in the shipping options (which appear in very small print under the order summary, which was in very large print without the shipping charge). Seeing free media mail promoted throughout I assumed I did not have to do anything unless wanting to upgrade to Priority.
Of course I tried contacting BigCD by phone, fax and email immediately after the order was placed to correct the shipping method but like everyone else, I just got a form letter about him being away until Sunday with his band.
I placed the order a month ago and have experienced the same problem everyone else has with being charged for something not being shipped. I notified my credit card company to cancel the charge which was posted January 29th.
Of course I tried contacting BigCD by phone, fax and email immediately after the order was placed to correct the shipping method but like everyone else, I just got a form letter about him being away until Sunday with his band.
I placed the order a month ago and have experienced the same problem everyone else has with being charged for something not being shipped. I notified my credit card company to cancel the charge which was posted January 29th.
02-24-02, 05:57 PM
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Once I dispute my charge, if I receive the item later, can I just refuse shipment, or what should I do in that case? Does USPS allow you to refuse shipment by bringing the item to the post office (shipping box unopened)? Because the mail lady sometimes just leaves boxes at my door, so I might not be able to refuse it upon delivery. On the other hand, if I do get the item after I dispute, and I decide to keep it, I assume I'm supposed to let the credit card company know, right? And then they'd re-charge me?
02-25-02, 11:41 AM
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You should be able to refuse delivery.
If one cancels the order with BigCD because delivery was not made within 30 days of the order, it may be a grey area as to whether any merchandise can be considered as unsolicited or unordered.
Of course in the latter one should let their conscience dictate the proper course.
http://pe.usps.gov/text/dmm/d042.htm
Refusal After Delivery
After delivery, an addressee may mark a mailpiece “Refused” and return it within a reasonable time, if the piece or any attachment is not opened. Mail that may not be refused and returned unopened under this provision may be returned to the sender only if it is enclosed in a new envelope or wrapper with a correct address and new postage. The following may not be refused and returned postage-free after delivery:
a. Pieces sent as registered, insured, certified, collect on delivery (COD), and return receipt for merchandise mail.
b. Response mail to the addressee’s sales promotion, solicitation, announcement, or other advertisement that was not refused when offered to the addressee.
Refusal After Delivery
After delivery, an addressee may mark a mailpiece “Refused” and return it within a reasonable time, if the piece or any attachment is not opened. Mail that may not be refused and returned unopened under this provision may be returned to the sender only if it is enclosed in a new envelope or wrapper with a correct address and new postage. The following may not be refused and returned postage-free after delivery:
a. Pieces sent as registered, insured, certified, collect on delivery (COD), and return receipt for merchandise mail.
b. Response mail to the addressee’s sales promotion, solicitation, announcement, or other advertisement that was not refused when offered to the addressee.
If one cancels the order with BigCD because delivery was not made within 30 days of the order, it may be a grey area as to whether any merchandise can be considered as unsolicited or unordered.
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/buspubs/mailorder.htm
Unordered Merchandise
Whether or not the Rule is involved, in any approval or other sale you must obtain the customer’s prior express agreement to receive the merchandise. Otherwise the merchandise may be treated as unordered merchandise. It is unlawful to:
1.Send any merchandise by any means without the express request of the recipient (unless the merchandise is clearly identified as a gift, free sample, or the like); or,
2.Try to obtain payment for or the return of the unordered merchandise.
Merchants who ship unordered merchandise with knowledge that it is unlawful to do so can be subject to civil penalties of up to $11,000 per violation. Moreover, customers who receive unordered merchandise are legally entitled to treat the merchandise as a gift. Using the U.S. mails to ship unordered merchandise also violates the Postal laws.
Unordered Merchandise
Whether or not the Rule is involved, in any approval or other sale you must obtain the customer’s prior express agreement to receive the merchandise. Otherwise the merchandise may be treated as unordered merchandise. It is unlawful to:
1.Send any merchandise by any means without the express request of the recipient (unless the merchandise is clearly identified as a gift, free sample, or the like); or,
2.Try to obtain payment for or the return of the unordered merchandise.
Merchants who ship unordered merchandise with knowledge that it is unlawful to do so can be subject to civil penalties of up to $11,000 per violation. Moreover, customers who receive unordered merchandise are legally entitled to treat the merchandise as a gift. Using the U.S. mails to ship unordered merchandise also violates the Postal laws.
Originally posted by T-rex
Once I dispute my charge, if I receive the item later, can I just refuse shipment, or what should I do in that case? Does USPS allow you to refuse shipment by bringing the item to the post office (shipping box unopened)? Because the mail lady sometimes just leaves boxes at my door, so I might not be able to refuse it upon delivery. On the other hand, if I do get the item after I dispute, and I decide to keep it, I assume I'm supposed to let the credit card company know, right? And then they'd re-charge me?
Once I dispute my charge, if I receive the item later, can I just refuse shipment, or what should I do in that case? Does USPS allow you to refuse shipment by bringing the item to the post office (shipping box unopened)? Because the mail lady sometimes just leaves boxes at my door, so I might not be able to refuse it upon delivery. On the other hand, if I do get the item after I dispute, and I decide to keep it, I assume I'm supposed to let the credit card company know, right? And then they'd re-charge me?
02-27-02, 01:07 AM
#25
DVD Talk Hero
Update from Mike:
Here is the general update for BigCD.com and BigCD on half.com - Monday.
This email will mainly concern the half.com portion of our business. Half.com along with BigCD and our mutual distributors have been working together to get your orders dispatched. Most of the half.com based bigcd orders have been shipped or will ship shortly. Our order status pages are being updated now again so you can look over there to see things and moving again however it's not easy to specifically see your orders since they changed the way they identify them. The half.com orders must be all sent out first before they will send out store orders from bigcd.com itself.
You need to be aware as any and all sellers on half.com do not have the ability to either email any customer or find out what they ordered or rebut and or respond to any feedback whatsoever. There is no way for me to respond to anyone through half.com besides if they were to write here directly. Even so then I am not really supposed to write back but I do so out of courtesy to inform you of the current situation. Also half.com has been informing people that they are getting another seller to handle the order and I don't know why they are saying this because BigCD is the seller and there is no other seller being assigned these orders. The distributor is finally releasing orders after weeks of fighting for them to be released and that is the truth. I would really appreciate if the degrading and slanderous type of feedbacks being received would cease. We are going to re open soon I think on half.com and things should be moving again shortly fine.
It is true that BigCD has financial problems but it's nothing that really is in my control. Credit processor has been withholding money which in turn got the revolving credit line revoked with the distributor which is why the orders have not been sent out. BigCD is a home based business started by one person and modeled even with large growth to be only a couple people if it continues.
Our own store orders will begin releasing this week as well until money runs out or some kind of other arrangements are made. This is per the distributor's cooperation and we all know how that can be but I will be pushing for them every day. You can if you like re email in the PO number in the store and I can resubmit it for priority release. Send it that PO number with a quick email to [email protected]. I will shuffle all these order requests to a folder and resend the orders in that people ask about again.
That's it for now thanks for your patience.
Mike BigCD
Here is the general update for BigCD.com and BigCD on half.com - Monday.
This email will mainly concern the half.com portion of our business. Half.com along with BigCD and our mutual distributors have been working together to get your orders dispatched. Most of the half.com based bigcd orders have been shipped or will ship shortly. Our order status pages are being updated now again so you can look over there to see things and moving again however it's not easy to specifically see your orders since they changed the way they identify them. The half.com orders must be all sent out first before they will send out store orders from bigcd.com itself.
You need to be aware as any and all sellers on half.com do not have the ability to either email any customer or find out what they ordered or rebut and or respond to any feedback whatsoever. There is no way for me to respond to anyone through half.com besides if they were to write here directly. Even so then I am not really supposed to write back but I do so out of courtesy to inform you of the current situation. Also half.com has been informing people that they are getting another seller to handle the order and I don't know why they are saying this because BigCD is the seller and there is no other seller being assigned these orders. The distributor is finally releasing orders after weeks of fighting for them to be released and that is the truth. I would really appreciate if the degrading and slanderous type of feedbacks being received would cease. We are going to re open soon I think on half.com and things should be moving again shortly fine.
It is true that BigCD has financial problems but it's nothing that really is in my control. Credit processor has been withholding money which in turn got the revolving credit line revoked with the distributor which is why the orders have not been sent out. BigCD is a home based business started by one person and modeled even with large growth to be only a couple people if it continues.
Our own store orders will begin releasing this week as well until money runs out or some kind of other arrangements are made. This is per the distributor's cooperation and we all know how that can be but I will be pushing for them every day. You can if you like re email in the PO number in the store and I can resubmit it for priority release. Send it that PO number with a quick email to [email protected]. I will shuffle all these order requests to a folder and resend the orders in that people ask about again.
That's it for now thanks for your patience.
Mike BigCD