dvdsteve2000

I've been looking around but haven't seen any. Wouldn't the quality be better going into a PC from the VCR through S-vids? My ATI Radeon has an S-vid input.

palebluedot

My Panasonic VCR has a s-video out so they do make them.

I just put the same video card in my machine and I am having a blast with it. Recording shows to hard drive and then making a VCD out of them. The next thing is transfering some old VHS tapes of my band to VCD.

X

Really, you haven't seen any? Mine has two.

Let's move this to the Home Theater Hardware Forum for some better answers.

jinhopark

I think all S-VHS VCR's have S-Video outputs, or at least my JVC and Sony players did.

My question is, do they have a VCR with Component Video outputs???

renaldow

S-Video is what SVHS VCRs use. I could be wrong, but I believe the S-Video connection was originally made for the SVHS VCR so that it could carry more lines of resolution than a regular VHS. That's why a regular VHS player generally won't have them, while all SVHS players do.

Jabx

JVC makes VCR's that can do 400 lines of resolution on a standard VHS tape (regular VHS is 260 lines).

And they have S-Video out as well

jinhopark

That is the S-VHS ET mode... which obviously cannot be played back through normal VCR's or even some S-VHS VCR's. The VCR's must be S-VHS ET mode compatible... The drawback obviously is that there aren't many players out there that can playback this format, which is also it's plus side (just in case you have family/friends who continually "borrow" your tapes).

The S-VHS ET mode is AMAZING though!!! The better the tape the better the recording, just like with the audio cassette tapes of the 80's...

TheKobra

All you have to do i poke a hole in the VHS tape and it will record like a SVHS tape. Look at the bottom of the tape. Have on the left side of the tape there is a small tab that can be punched out. Do this and it is now a SVHS tape for about 1/4 the price.

Kevo

You wouldn't gain any extra quality with component outputs on a VCR. Neither will you gain from having S-Video sockets on a standard VCR.

The sockets you get on VCRs carry the signal that the source is capable of delivering at an optimum.

Composite for VHS
S-Video for SVHS/Hi8
RGB/Component for D-VHS/DVD
Firewire for DV/Mini-DVd

0ne

sorry the above post is incorrect. I work at an electronics store and you would not believe the amount of customers who bring in their own tapes and want to demo them on various VCR's, when testing them out the SVHS vcr invariably catches their attention as looking the best.

chaz4

What's this about punching out a piece of tape to make it a S-VHS tape??

I looked at a cassette from every angle, but the only piece I can see to punch out is the write-protect tab.

CW++

jinhopark

I doubt that I would gain NOTHING from a component video outputs connection on a S-VHS VCR. The whole idea behind Component Video connections is having that EXTRA video seperation, 2 Vs. 3...

I would probably agree with you on normal VCR's which only have 240-260 scan lines, but S-VHS has 380-410 scan lines of resolution... I'm sure a lot also has to do with the video display source, if all you are going to do is watch it through a 25" GE TV then nothing you do is really going to make a difference. The larger the display the more apparent the differences are...

kahuna

Here is a Article about how to turn normal tape into a S-VHS tape.

I brought the very first S-VHS vcr that was put out by JVC model # I beleive was S-1000U. I still have it up in the attic. It had wood grain look and retailed for $1000. Local PX had it for $699 but I found a open box unit for about $400. I beleive they first came out in the late 80's.

S-VHS tapes were expensive as hell about $12-$15 each. So way back then I read a article about how to drill a hole into a regular tape and you could fool the S-VHS vcr into thinking it was a S-VHS tape. So I use to go out and buy high quality tapes and drill holes in the back of them. My copies of my laser disc collection never look so good.

I am thinking about having my JVC S1000U S-VHS fixed but not sure if they even carry parts for it.

I just had a relative order me a Mitsubishi HSU446 S-VHS Vcr from Good Guys in California and they are going to ship it to me.



Kahuna

jinhopark

That is an interesting article... Wish I would have known about this back in 1991 when I bought my first S-VHS VCR!!!

It's kind of a moot point now with the advent of S-VHS ET, which I imagine is a feature which over-rides looking for this drilled out indentation on "normal" VHS tapes.

I always wondered if you could "fool" the recorder into thinking it was a S-VHS tape, and now I know.

Jerry

I believe that is wrong. Video is recored in component form on the VHS format (both S and standard). You will definitely get a clearer picture (improved color separation and croma noise, though not with more lines of resolution) with the S-video output.

Danny_boy

VHS is a composite format. So not only would component connections not give you any improvement in quality, they wouldn't even work. S-VHS on the other hand is a Y/C component format, hence S-Video connectors on super-V decks. But it is still not a true RGB component system.

Kevo

EXACTLY, Thanks DB.

The only way to get it into another format is to use a 'Composite to RGB or S-Video converter', which still wouldn't give you any imoprovement on pic quality. It would still be the same as it was when it was recorded. These converters are more for connection convenience rather than pic quality improvement.

Much like a mono sound signal on a stereo phono (RCA) cable will be no better than it would on a single phono cable.

Kevo

D-VHS on the other hand would be able to record RGB component signal, say from a DVD or Digital TV box.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but now that B&W TVs are practically
non-existent then there is no need for digital TV to be compatiable and therefore can use raw RGB as opposed to a seperate B&W and colour signal, which was used only so B&W TV owners could still watch TV.

If colour was adopted when TVs were first inventented (i.e. no B&W at all) then VHS video recorders would have been able to record & play in RGB.

jinhopark

Yeah I guess that is true about S-VHS... We should have stuck with BETA!!! Oh well I guess I'll have to wait until D-VHS players/tapes come down in price before I can get my COMPONENT VIDEO ONLY setup going.

Danny_boy

I am almost certain that Betamax was NTSC composite as well. It was just the physical properties of the tapes and decks that made it superior. Betacam (the professional format), however, is RGB component.

As for D-VHS, I would hold my breath. I really don't see tape based recording as the future. Disk based systems will have greater longevity than tape based systems. Plus several manufacturers are currently developing recordable DVD formats, but JVC is the only company working on D-VHS.

Jerry

You can find an explanation of the way video signals are recored onto VCRs here:

http://www.cybertheater.com/Tech_Rep...b_filters.html

Just scroll down to the section: What Type of Products Have Y/C Separation Filters? - VCR's & Camcorders

Anyway I lifted that bit out

Hope this helps.

Danny_boy

I read through that site about video signals and while it is full of good information, I totally disagree with the author about his statement that all consumer VCRs record video in Y/C component. VHS is an NTSC composite format, the signal that it records to the tape is NTSC composite. If it recorded Y/C component it would look a lot better than it does. You wouldn't see the bleeding that occurs with VHS if it was Y/C. Yes S-VHS and Hi-8 record Y/C component, but VHS does not.

I should point out that composite is not always bad. U-matic (which was officially discontinued 7 years ago, but is still heavily used) is a composite format, as is type-C 1 inch tape. 1 inch is still used at hundreds of TV stations across the country and despite the fact that it is a composite format, it still looks really good. Not as good as Betacam SX or DigitalBetacam, but still really good.

jinhopark

Here is how I understand it:

The Betacam format was invented by Sony in 1982. This was the original component video system. It records and plays the full 5MHz of chrominance and luminance as three separate channels (the color information is stored as two color difference signals). It was a component video format of their original Betamax composite video format for the consumer market. The Betacam format was unsuccessful as a consumer format because the players/recorders could not be made as cheaply as the VHS ones, and because by 1982 there was already much more available in VHS format than in Betamax format. Betacam is used extensively for broadcast quality video, and it is possible to record to a Betacam tape at the Rechenzentrum. The problem is that you will be unlikely to find a player for the tape when you take it e.g. to a conference.

http://www.mpa-garching.mpg.de/MPA-G...-glossary.html

Beta is a moot point now so I'll drop it...

TrygveLode

Betamax (and its derivatives SuperBeta and ED-Beta), VHS, and SVHS, whether NTSC or PAL, record a composite video signal onto tape, but the relationship between the chrominance and luminance carriers is not the same as is used for broadcast (NTSC or PAL) or over the standard composite video connections on the outside of the VCR.

For any of these formats, the VCR is taking a composite input, separating the Y/C signals, then re-modulating them together to be recorded. On playback, it has to do it again.

Plain-old VHS and Betamax VCRs would deliver better picture quality and, in particular, make better copies if they had S-video inputs and outputs. Perhaps the reason they don't is to maintain the market's willingness to pay extra for SVHS decks.

Betacam and BetaSP are YUV component formats, as are most (if not all) digital tape formats. (The main reason for YUV rather than RGB is to allocate greater bandwidth for the luminance signal or, in the case of digital, subsample the UV levels.)

I've tried the "convert VHS tape to SVHS" technique before (using a soldering iron rather than a drill, so no plastic shavings would get into the cassette or the VCR) and have been unhappy with the results. I have, however, been very happy with bulk-erased SVHS tapes, which I've been getting for $2.50 apiece (if anyone knows of a better deal, I'd be interested), so while there's still a cost premium associated with SVHS tape stock, it's not all that bad--especially compared to how much I have pay for DigiBeta or BetaSP stock.

Eeyore

where would one get one of these, or are they prohibitively expensive? (the only ones i've ever seen were around $50 and a monstercable one for over $100... ridiculous)

it'd be helpful to be able to plug everything into the receiver on s-vhs and then only have one input into the tv :>