movieguru

Looks like Marvel is going back to the original numbering on their "legacy" again in the next few monts. I think they've done this at least twice in the past. I wonder how long it will last this time.

http://www.newsarama.com/34197-marve...ck-extras.html

fujishig

Ugh. So what milestone issue are they reverting this back for? Or is this just so they can continue FF numbering after being gone for so long.

The Valeyard

The first time they attempted this, their hearts were in the right places.

Anything after that was bullshit.

stingermck

To make money again.

fujishig

I'm not sure how his makes money? Who jumps back on because of numbering, considering even completionists should be mad because their collection becomes unmanageable?

Josh-da-man

That ship sailed two decades ago.

Back then, numbering made sense.

Then everything became a bunch of miniseries, one-shots, renumberings, re-namings, A+X, multiple versions of the same character, lines expanded and diluted, characters killed and replaced and resurrected...

BGPu

It was hilarious when Marvel did the "All New" thing 2 years ago and renumbered all the titles and they all have 3 digits on the covers.

I thought that none of them would ever hit issue 100. They would be renumbered again before that happens. Looks like I was right.

Undeadcow

I think what's more important, to me, is Marvel's focus on returning to 'legacy' characters. If what Marvel is really saying is that after hundreds of issues the continuity is valuable then sign me up but I'm not convinced yet. It's not just issue numbering - they've been treating the characters like a revolving series of reboots, mini-series, or limited scope events far too long.

That is assuming Marvel hasn't already damaged themselves by morphing every character into some other background/gender/ethnicity/etc than was originally the case. Stuff like insisting Captain America is a nazi spy then turning around and celebrating that there were 700+ issues of traditional Cap seems lame. That Wolverine ~#500 might not even contain the original character of Wolverine at all but one of at least three alternate Wolverines hardly seems like Wolverine at all even if some of the derivative characters are kind of cool.

I disagree with Marvel's recent announcement that 'diversity' of characters doesn't improve sales. Marvel is missing is that you also need a core continuity for diverse characters to exist in - not an ever shifting sea of linewide shake-up events so fingers crossed we see more respect for continuity, whatever exists of it anymore.

movieguru

The numeric meant something at one point, but now they've renumbered so may times that they'll be huge gaps of missing issue numbers when they bring back the original numeric system. I think they didn't even get the numbers correct when the renumbered Thor last time. I think at one point they brought back Journey into Mystery continuing with Thor's old numbers, but after that was cancelled and Thor came back they ignored JIM 's numbers and repeated those same numerous with the Thor title

Undeadcow

When do they reveal the past 5-10 years of Marvel Comics actually occurred in a pocket universe created by Franklin Richards?

PhantomStranger

That might get me to check Marvel out again. Though I'm not sure Spider-Man or some of the others are ever fully recovering without a complete reboot. Too much has happened to the DNA of these characters over the past decade.

sven

I'd love to see them find a way to reboot the X-men back to the Carey/Fraction/Brubaker era status quo and start again from there.

Hokeyboy

Jesus. Marvel just needs to let their characters and titles breathe for awhile. Like a year or two. I haven't read a Marvel comic in years, mostly because I wouldn't even know where to jump in, given their ever-lasting BIG! COSMIC! THIS! CHANGES! EVERYTHING! STATUS! QUO! DISRUPTION!! series, miniseries, crossovers, etc.

fujishig

You can't on one hand ask that continuity be strictly adhered to and then on the other hand want to throw away the past 5 years of stories. What people really want is a return to the continuity they liked, be it Claremont's Uncanny X-Men, married Spidey, whatever. And then you're always going to have someone displeased. It's the cost of business when you're letting hundreds of creators have their own interpretation of the characters and then expecting that all to gel in perpetuity.

What Marvel had been doing that I think worked was getting specific creators to work on different characters longish term, with nods to continuity but otherwise giving them some measure of free reign. Brubaker's Captain America is probably a far cry from the Simon/Kirby original, but it was entertaining and became definitive. Annihilation did this with the cosmic universe, taking relatively obscure characters and remaking them as the creators saw fit while giving nods to the past. Hickman on FF and then Avengers, Brubaker, Waid, and countless others on Daredevil. Heck even Bendis on New Avengers, where Luke Cage was completely remade into an A list Avenger.

But then Image comics and creator owned stuff came knocking, and why give your best ideas as a contractor when you can save it for something you fully own, and which won't be rewritten in five years? And the rotating artists and constant events to drum up flagging sales, then super late events that muck with the entire schedule. Constant reboots to chase sales for new number ones. Mandates from the parent company to neuter properties like FF and anything mutant. It wouldn't be so bad if they had some kind of strategy, like renumbering every year or something, but who the heck can keep track with the current environment?

stingermck

I was speaking of the bigger topic, Marvel Legacy aka DC Rebirth.

Marvel's sales are in the tank right now, so they are trying to go back to basics.

Adam Tyner

I wound up a few months behind leading up to / immediately after getting married and renovating my house. (Needless to say, it was a hectic few months.) I meant to get back into the swing of things once I could catch my breath, but being free of events, crossovers, reboots, and endless creative team changes felt like someone had unlocked a ball and chain I'd had locked to my foot for years on end. I know I could just read books that don't engage in that sort of B.S., and I do pick up TPBs and indie collections every once in a great while. It's been a little over two and a half years, and I'm surprised by how little I miss a hobby that had been part of my life for decades.

fujishig

That's the trick, once you go cold turkey there's really little reason to go back to monthlies unless you just like throwing away money or are like me, and can't fully break the addiction.

Trevor

I thînk the trick is to jettison most Marvel books. Comics are only getting better and better, but most of it is outside the big two.

fujishig

Even outside of the big 2, though, most things read better in trade form.

movieguru

This is the main problem with Marvel and DC. Too many cosmic/galactic major storylines that affect nearly every character or title in their universe. Spider-man works better when his stories are more down to Earth. There is no real reason for him to be fighting for the fate of the galaxy or the universe; and it's the same with a lot of other characters. I mean can't they just do simple stories anymore that readers could connect with? I would love to see them do stories like the suicide issue of New Mutants #45. That was one simple, single issue storyline that people will fondly remember today.

movieguru

I agree. Marvel and DC pretty much rehash their storylines now with just slight twists to what has been done before. It's highly unlikely they will come up with many, if any, new characters that become household names anymore. No writer or artists will give away their creations to the big two. The only new characters they will get will be alternate versions of pre-existing characters like the Miles Morales Spider-man, War Machine, etc.

Image on the other hand gets a lot of new material, and is more innovative and groundbreaking than Marvel or Dc will ever do again.

Hokeyboy

I wouldn't mind if continuity was removed entirely and books just existed to tell great stories, period. Have characters cross over and exist in a similar universe, but if, say, Captain America was guest starring in Spider-Man, and it was the classic Steve Rogers Cap and not whatever Cap has mutated into lately, I would not mind whatsoever.

fujishig

They actually do have a decently diverse (superhero) lineup if you think about it. The problem is that nobody buys the books which aren't involved in the huge crossover of the month, so they get cancelled. I'm not saying that's the only problem but comic buyers are a factor as well.

If you create a grounded Spider-man book and take it out of continuity (like an untold tales of Spider-Man) it's just not going to sell the same, unless you have a lot of buzz and a list creators doing their best work.

It's like when DC You launched with all these very different comics and there was like a collective shrug.

PhantomStranger

I still love continuity but have no problem selectively obliterating certain runs contrary to the fundamental essence of a character. The problem is that Marvel decided about a decade ago that they would go forward with shocking changes to the status quo and claim it's all real in the main continuity, thus undermining the idea of continuity itself.

Most people believe they will have to retcon or reboot after this Hydra Captain America nonsense.

jjcool

Interesting. I never noticed this. Now that I check, I see some titles do use the three digit numbering and some do not. As I mentioned in another thread on the forum, I assumed that the titles that dont use three digits (Starlord, Kingpin, etc) were mini series and not designed to be ongoing books.