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AVS System (Play Nintendo in HD)

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AVS System (Play Nintendo in HD)

Old 08-19-16, 09:26 PM
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Re: AVS System (Play Nintendo in HD)

Originally Posted by Jay G.
Companies don't "let" patents expire. It's how patents are designed and intended to work. It's in the Constitution that patents can only be valid for a limited time and have to eventually expire.

I still would have thought Nintendo would have found a way to patent HD/HDMI output of the NES, thus not letting the patent expire.

They're a big powerful company with lots of lawyers, and I'm surprised they let things like this happen considering how quickly they jumped on that Nintendo Power archive.
Old 08-19-16, 10:32 PM
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Re: AVS System (Play Nintendo in HD)

Originally Posted by JTH182
I still would have thought Nintendo would have found a way to patent HD/HDMI output of the NES, thus not letting the patent expire.
At best, that would patent only HDMI output from an NES, and a lot of the HDMI output is likely covered by HDMI patents. There might not be anything "novel" enough about adding an HDMI converter to the RGB output of the original hardware to warrant a new patent.

Originally Posted by JTH182
They're a big powerful company with lots of lawyers, and I'm surprised they let things like this happen considering how quickly they jumped on that Nintendo Power archive.
Nintendo Power is still protected by copyright, which has a significantly longer term (95 years from publication for "corporate" authorship, compared with 20 years for patents).

http://copyright.cornell.edu/resources/publicdomain.cfm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Term_o..._United_States
Old 08-19-16, 10:32 PM
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Re: AVS System (Play Nintendo in HD)

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but copyrights and patents aren't remotely the same.

what Jay said.

I'm still tempted by this, but I'd also love a SNES one. Let's make one!!
Old 08-21-16, 07:54 PM
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Re: AVS System (Play Nintendo in HD)

I found a video showing the optional scanlines filter on this console:

Old 08-22-16, 03:41 AM
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Re: AVS System (Play Nintendo in HD)

It looks like it doesn't do save states right?
Old 08-22-16, 06:48 AM
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Re: AVS System (Play Nintendo in HD)

Originally Posted by gmanca
It looks like it doesn't do save states right?
No, it's not an emulator but a recreation of the original hardware, so save states would require a lot more work.

That said, it does do Game Genie codes.
Old 08-22-16, 07:35 AM
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Re: AVS System (Play Nintendo in HD)

This guy did a lot better video than me lol.


Old 08-22-16, 12:31 PM
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Re: AVS System (Play Nintendo in HD)

Originally Posted by Jay G.
No, it's not an emulator but a recreation of the original hardware, so save states would require a lot more work.

That said, it does do Game Genie codes.
That's a bummer, I mean it's running on an fpga so he's basically doing a Nintendo on a chip scheme so he could have had a memory write routine that said where they were in the cartridge rom and what was in the current MCU ram.
Old 08-22-16, 12:34 PM
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Re: AVS System (Play Nintendo in HD)

Originally Posted by gmanca
That's a bummer, I mean it's running on an fpga so he's basically doing a Nintendo on a chip scheme so he could have had a memory write routine that said where they were in the cartridge rom and what was in the current MCU ram.
Well, I mean, if you want to program a chip that can do that, I'm sure he'd be happy to add the feature in a firmware update. But where would the save state be saved to?

Frankly, programming an original NES hardware onto a FPGA is impressive enough, in my opinion.
Old 08-22-16, 12:39 PM
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Re: AVS System (Play Nintendo in HD)

BTW, Analogue is currently working on an "Nt Mini" that is also using a FPGA chip. It's slightly cheaper than the original Nt at $449, but is still quite a bit more than the AVS.

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/0...re-affordable/
Old 08-22-16, 01:35 PM
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Re: AVS System (Play Nintendo in HD)

Save states would greatly increase my interest in this. I still have all my cartridges, but most of the ones that I'd want to play have batteries in them which are likely long dead, and I don't trust myself with a soldering gun enough to attempt changing them.
Old 08-23-16, 08:58 AM
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Re: AVS System (Play Nintendo in HD)

Originally Posted by Obi-Wan Jabroni
Save states would greatly increase my interest in this. I still have all my cartridges, but most of the ones that I'd want to play have batteries in them which are likely long dead, and I don't trust myself with a soldering gun enough to attempt changing them.
There are services that will replace the batteries for you.

Also, RetroUSB's PowerPack will simulate a battery save for ROMs loaded onto it. It's an additional $135:
http://www.retrousb.com/product_info...products_id=34

There was an accessory for the NES called the Game Action Replay (not to be confused with the Pro Action Replay) that purported to save game states:
http://www.nesworld.com/gameactionreplay.php
Game Type.. Supposedly most games work with setting A, but if the game you're playing doesn't then try picking another letter.
The mention of "Game Types" suggests that saving state on a hardware console isn't as straightforward as it may seem. It's also unclear how many games the accessory was actually compatible with.

I do think emulators may have the edge in terms of save states, since they can save everything, including freezing the CPU and PPU state instantly. The Retron 5 console can do save states, but it's basically an emulator:
http://www.hyperkin.com/retro/retron...-hyperkin.html
Old 09-16-16, 07:59 AM
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Re: AVS System (Play Nintendo in HD)

A new review of the system:
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/0...es-cartridges/

tl;dr They're not in love with the case design, but find the other features make it a good value.

An interesting part of the article is about a feature I hadn't seen mentioned here yet:
Take "extra sprites" mode, for instance. The original NES' PPU only had the power to output eight moving "sprites" per horizontal pass of the CRT scanline. This led to the system's well-known "flickering" issues when games tried to push past that limit.

Turn on "extra sprites" mode on the AVS, though, and the system uses the FPGA's extra pixel pushing power over a stock NES to allow for up to 16 sprites per line, reducing or even eliminating flickering in many games. Some games reportedly won't work with this mode enabled (since they were designed to take advantage of this timing vagary in the first place). When it does work, though, it's a noticeable improvement over the way those games look on the original hardware.
Old 09-17-16, 11:10 AM
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Re: AVS System (Play Nintendo in HD)

Good point Jay, I wanted to test out TMNT to see if that would help with the stuttering that game can have.
Old 09-19-16, 07:47 PM
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Re: AVS System (Play Nintendo in HD)

Originally Posted by Jay G.
At best, that would patent only HDMI output from an NES, and a lot of the HDMI output is likely covered by HDMI patents. There might not be anything "novel" enough about adding an HDMI converter to the RGB output of the original hardware to warrant a new patent.


Nintendo Power is still protected by copyright, which has a significantly longer term (95 years from publication for "corporate" authorship, compared with 20 years for patents).

http://copyright.cornell.edu/resources/publicdomain.cfm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Term_o..._United_States
I realize that, but there's also significantly less revenue to be made from old issues of Nintendo Power than there is of reselling decades old hardware to people. I'm simply saying I'm surprised Nintendo is letting it happen. Even if they just brought out their own system and undercut the price instead of one of those cheesey preloaded systems they got coming out.
Old 09-19-16, 08:21 PM
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Re: AVS System (Play Nintendo in HD)

Originally Posted by JTH182
I realize that, but there's also significantly less revenue to be made from old issues of Nintendo Power than there is of reselling decades old hardware to people. I'm simply saying I'm surprised Nintendo is letting it happen.
Oh, Nintendo would stop it if they could, but they can't. I'm not at all disagreeing that Nintendo would protect their hardware against cloning if it was at all legally possible, but the only protection against it, the patents, have expired.


Originally Posted by JTH182
Even if they just brought out their own system and undercut the price instead of one of those cheesey preloaded systems they got coming out.
Nintendo is going to make far more money from the NES Mini than the AVS is going to make.
Old 11-11-16, 06:53 AM
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Re: AVS System (Play Nintendo in HD)

After going back and forth on whether the NES mini was worth it or not, I decided to order one of these last week. It arrived a couple days ago. I think I chose wisely. So far, every game I've put in it has looked and played flawlessly. Granted I've already played a ton of these games in HD via emulation (PC, OUYA, etc), but it never felt right. The controller was awkward and never as responsive as it needed to be. You honestly cannot beat the experience of using the actual cart and original controller. The games actually feel and play the way they're supposed to. Every time I pop in a new cart, I'm in awe. It just works. The controls are accurate. And it looks absolutely incredible. I'd say if anyone still has a collection of old NES carts lying around, this system is a must own.
Old 11-11-16, 07:12 AM
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Re: AVS System (Play Nintendo in HD)

Originally Posted by Obi-Wan Jabroni
Save states would greatly increase my interest in this. I still have all my cartridges, but most of the ones that I'd want to play have batteries in them which are likely long dead, and I don't trust myself with a soldering gun enough to attempt changing them.
You don't need a soldering gun to change the batteries. All you need is a security screwdriver bit to open the cartridge. Can be easily found on eBay (or even a hardware store) for a couple dollars. There's two sizes 3.8 and 4.5mm. Don't remember which ones are for NES or SNES but it wouldn't hurt to have both. The batteries are just standard 3v 2032 coin-like batteries and they pop right out.

If you have any old cartridges lying around, it would be wise to buy the screwdriver bit(s) and open the cartridges anyway since that's the most effective way to clean them. I've opened and cleaned every NES cart I own (over 350+). It's super easy.
Old 11-11-16, 07:19 AM
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Re: AVS System (Play Nintendo in HD)

I dunno, I looked at a youtube video on changing NES cartridge batteries, and the person in the video was soldering.
Old 11-11-16, 08:41 AM
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Re: AVS System (Play Nintendo in HD)

Originally Posted by Obi-Wan Jabroni
I dunno, I looked at a youtube video on changing NES cartridge batteries, and the person in the video was soldering.
It may depend on the specific game/game company, but i do think most NES cartridges soldered the battery clip to the board, since it's cheaper.

There's after-market mods to add a battery holder to the cartridge, to make swapping batteries again later on easier:
http://www.the9thkey.com/games/Nesbatt.htm
http://www.retronintendoreviews.com/...y-replacement/

I did find a video for doing a solderless replacement, which basically involves prying the existing clips off the current battery, then using electrical tape to keep the clips connected to the new battery.
Old 11-13-16, 01:53 PM
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Re: AVS System (Play Nintendo in HD)

Part of me is interested in this since I've got a bunch of cartridges but it seems so expensive. I know it's a true console and not just an emulator but I don't know if I really want to drop close to $200 on it.

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