Rival11

I will admit I don't know that much about Ultra HD and seeing as how current consoles can finally push 1080p....do you think the next big thing for console gaming will be UHD?

I was thinking about this other day as I remember just a short time ago, to fully appreciate second and third generation games on the previous consoles, you needed a big screen HD tv - something not many of us could afford when they were first released but ended up getting after prices dropped. I remember how blown away I was when playing games on a big screen tv in HD - it was the next level.

Now, don't get me wrong, games look great on the new consoles so far but I'm wondering if UHD is what pushes the home console experience a step further like the HD tv did when they become affordable.

I keep reading that UHD won't matter unless you're sitting at a close distance and it's something that will be skipped. I saw one up close at an electronics store and was blown away by how nice it looked.

Thoughts?

RichC2

4K is huge in PC gaming, much like 1080p was huge last gen, so yes that is the next iteration for game consoles.

Jay G.

The current consoles struggle to reach 1080p sometimes, especially the Xbox One.

There's more to graphics than just resolution. There's framerate, anti-aliasing, textures, shading, etc. To give some perspective, the original Xbox could output in 1080i, but only a few games ever supported it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ith_HD_support

The progression since then hasn't been about increasing resolution, but rather increasing the graphic capabilities at the highest resolution.

gerrythedon

so you're saying that PS5 will be 2160P and XBOXTWO will be 1080P

fujishig

Is UHD the same as 4k? At present, this seems more like what happened with 3D than HD: nothing really supports the format besides a few early adopters, and I'm not sure if or when we'll get to a state where a lot of people have these sets, or at least enough for companies to design games for that resolution. Maybe in a couple of generations, at best. Many games still don't even output 1080p, and if they do, people start arguing about framerate anyway.

Jay G.

Mostly. UHD is the home theater version of 4K, just like 1080p HD is the home theater version of 2K.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4K_resolution
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-h...ion_television

fumanstan

I don't think it's "the next big thing" moreso just natural progression of technology. That said, I'm on the train that feels like we've already been seeing diminishing returns with graphics and resolution is less important then the other aspects of improving graphics quality after reaching HD.

I'm also skeptical that adoption of 4K television will be wide spread enough for the next generation of consoles to make that the target resolution, let alone having the power to be able to hit that consistently.

RichC2

So you think in 8 years time that 1080p TVs will still be the proverbial jam?

And I'm sorry, all the posts you see that claim "You can't see the difference unless you're up close!" is just a self justification for not upgrading, and at current prices I agree. While not always entirely noticeable with video, the higher resolution boost is very noticeable with games. Additionally, 4K content on a 4K tv looks noticeably better than 1080p content on a 1080p screen, even at fair distances. It just isn't the night/day difference that we had jumping from 480p to 720p/1080p.

Furthermore, I just want it to catch on so I can finally get a 4K projector for the same $550 I paid for my 3D 1080p projector. I figured this would be the last generation of traditional game consoles but honestly I'm starting to doubt that now. Next-Gen will likely be what $600 PC Graphic Cards are at in the next year, so 4K will likely be a target, especially now that they seem to be advancing quickly at high quality for lower prices.

Gooter

I don't know about all of the technical mumbo jumbo, and yes, there isn't much 4k content out right now. But all I care about are blurays, 4k (what little I have), and PS4 gaming look AMAZING on my Vizio P series 70" (the UHD/4k set).

Brack

How do curent games look on the PS4 using a 4K tv vs a 1080p tv?

Gooter

I noticed a huge improvement in picture quality (more vivid colors, crisp image, etc) going from a Sony 50" DLP to the Vizio on my PS4. But we're also talking about an 8-9 year old set vs a new one.

fumanstan

Not sure if the entirety of this is in direct reply to my post, but I absolutely believe that consumers won't be in a rush to upgrade solely for 4K within 8 years time, barring another incentive between now and then or a big shift in the ability to consume 4K content (e.g. massive increases in bandwidth for streaming, removal of data caps, or a return of interest in physical media which is unlikely). Or 4K sets completely replace 1080P as standard mainstream/budget models.

I also disagree about the self justification thing, and maintain that diminishing returns continues to play out and resolution is just one of many other factors. And i'm someone that moved to a 1440P monitor on my PC well before anyone else I know.

DthRdrX

I feel the PS4/Xbox1 got stuck in an all too early development cycle, in terms of affordable GPUs available at the time, and rushed out the door. The timing, and some company targets, didn't seem to be aimed at full 1080p/60fps for every single game. Wasn't a big deal though IMO.

PC games are starting to be released with 4K support. The next round of GPUs sound like they are being aimed at 4K. I will say the same thing I said in the last thread about this topic. Next Gen consoles will target 4K as a selling point, which not only helps sell new TVs but also helps keeps game development and port costs down.

RichC2

Honestly, I'm more concerned about framerates than anything higher than 720p right now. Graphical detail is next most important to me. Then resolution.

But there is absolutely no reason to have an inconsistent framerate that drops below 30 fps these days.

DthRdrX

The question is how many 4K TVs will have been sold in the next 8 years? Because gamers have shown that they will buy any new console as long as their are good games on the horizon. Personally, what I saw at CES was the 1080p sets being phased out this year. Walk into a store in 1-2 years and 4K will probably be the only choice. I'd guess 8K TVs will be widely available when the next consoles release with 4K.

DthRdrX

I agree. Improved frame rates help a great deal. The new Unreal engine looks pretty sweet though.

RichC2

This is more or less what I meant as well, it isn't so much that people will upgrade to 4K, but it'll soon be like purchasing a 720p 55" TV, you can do it, but what's the point?

Yeah saw that, looks fantastic, kind of funny it's capped to 720p. Horror games are going to be great in the next few years.

DthRdrX

Well, that's my point. We'll probably be having the same conversation about 8K games upon the release of the next gen consoles if they are 4K. I don't think GPUs can make that kind of leap in the foreseeable future but who knows. Maybe Sony/MS will stretch this generation out ....

K&AJones

I had the choice of getting a 65" 4K set when our 55" Plasma went down but I instead went with a Sony Projector because I like it big. Sure, 4k will come later but it will be like when Blu-Ray hit, not everyone dumped their DVD's and jumped on board. Same with older 360 & PS3's...people are still playing but a little each day, week and month some finally cross over.

Sure, 4K gaming will look fantastic but we're still very much young with the PS4 & XO just getting 1080p and being stable. Think we need to get it right before moving on to 4K. Plus the hardware and having everything meet the standard will not be cheap which is another stumbling block. I find it amazing that both the PS4 and XO are not even 1.5 years old yet and they're being looked at as old news with some focus on a PS5 & XO2.....how long did we have the PS3 and 360 and they're still kicking.

fumanstan

That's what I meant as far as 4K replacing 1080 as standard in stores. I'm skeptical that we'll see that happen in 1-2 years, let alone 1080 being phased out this year. Vizio in 2014 was really the only major manufacturer pushing more "affordable" 4K sets with their P series, and even then it's one of 3 product lines. I just can't imagine the other manufacturers are going to shifting their product lines down that quickly opposed to keeping 4K as a premium product. And even then, just being on shelves doesn't mean it will be adopted quickly or give folks a reason enough to upgrade existing sets.

That said, thinking about it more another 7-8 years is a damn long time from now so I'm probably not forward thinking enough about it and i'll probably be wrong

Jay G.

It's not self justification, it's basic science. The further away and smaller an object is, the harder it is to see. Think of an eye chart. At a particular distance, the large text at the top is the most readable, and it gets progressively harder and harder to read the lines as they get smaller and smaller until they're no longer legible, even though all the text on the chart was printed at the same resolution (dpi).

At a particular distance for a particular sized screen, you won't be able to discern the difference between an HD image and UHD image. What that distance is depends on the size of the screen and how good your vision is.

UHD/4K is noticeable on large screens for good distances, which is why theaters are moving to 4K projectors. On a 26" screen 10 feet away, not so much.

This isn't how development works. Both Sony and Microsoft worked with AMD to create custom CPU/GPU combination chips. The CPU architecture both are based on didn't get released for PC until May of 2013, only a few months before the Xbox One and PS4 were released:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaguar_(microarchitecture)
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6976/a...-kabini-temash

The consoles were limited by factors considering price and heat. The "APU" (aka CPU/GPU combo) had to come in at a reasonable price, and not generate too much heat even when going full force. These chips were likely in development for years, and not "rushed out the door."


There's always more that can be done at a given resolution. Games today could easily hit 1080p60 constantly if they stripped out some of the graphical effects and such. It's not so much whether we ever "get it right," but whether there's a demand for a higher resolution. The next gen could at the least offer it as an option, even if most games end up not using it (see original xbox and 1080i).

People start looking to the next gen as soon as the current gen's been released. There was already speculation on the "Xbox 720" in Oct 2006, less than a year after the Xbox 360 was released Nov 2005:
http://www.slashgear.com/xbox-720-al...opment-182103/

flashburn

At some point we are going to hit a point where the actual resolution is high enough, and I personally think that unless we are talking about screen sizes > 100" at very close distances, UHD resolutions will be that point. Not to mention the amount of bandwidth needed to support that resolution for video content (whether disc or digital content), or horsepower needed for real-time content. I know that electronic manufacturers will no doubt try to push > UHD resolutions on us (and they've already announced products), but I think they will all be a failure. They are going to have to find other areas to improve on besides just shear resolution. There are plenty of places to improve too, color accuracy and black levels being the most obvious, but obviously those aren't as "sexy" and easy to sell as resolution. Glasses free 3D will probably be another feature we see come into the mainstream over the next few years as well.

It's kind of pathetic at how out of ideas and desperate electronic manufacturers are to push UHD TV's on consumers at this point given how little content there is available. It'll be a very long time before TV stations are broadcasting at resolutions like that... hell, most of them don't even support 1080p/i. Netflix still only has very limited content available at UHD resolution.

Personally I'll be buying a UHD TV probably at the end of this year, due to a combination of gaming on an HTPC and UHD Blu-Ray being released at that point. If it wasn't for UHD Blu-Ray, I'd keep waiting beyond that.

K&AJones

Well if people are already looking to the next gen of "PS5 & XO2" then they need to get a life. As the saying goes...."Enjoy today for tomorrow may never come"....

One reason why I stopped PC Gaming was exactly for this reason...video card and chips were being upgraded faster than the games themselves. It was like someone buying a new car only wanting to buy another new car 6 months later...and prices kept going up, up, up...."The Pixel Craze" was getting out-of-hand...and out-of-wallet. but if people have the $$$$ then more power to them.

But it's like fancy brand name speaker cables....about 95-99% out there wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a $20 and $200 pair. Same with some games if it's 1080p at 60 or 30 fps not to mention all the PC Video cards with a majority out there wouldn't be able to tell a $150 video card from a $600 one....except in their wallet....

Barth

Agreed. Heck, I'm still watching 60, 46, and 36 inch 720p tvs in the house. I love the picture quality and won't upgrade till a tv dies. Granted, I'm 42 and remember what it was like growing up watching my parents 25 inch tube tv, but I do think the technology is outpacing the demand. 480 to HD was a huge jump in quality tho.

fumanstan

I don't think it's a matter of "getting a life" at all, some people just like to speculate. Especially when the power of the current generation is a little underwhelming already to some.

New generations of video cards come out almost on a yearly cycle (and up until Nvidia's recent cards, a bigger lull then that), but just because they're released doesn't mean you need to buy them. I always thought people citing upgrades as an example of the negatives of PC Gaming was pretty silly, since for the most part a mid-range gaming card in the $200 range lasts a couple years and even then, you can just bump down the quality settings a bit and still probably be comparable to console graphics. I had a GTX 770 but it had some issues, so bumped back down to my old 570. Still runs games pretty well.

Also, I think the difference between 60 and 30 fps and the features and capabilities you can turn on between a $150 video card and a $600 one is pretty damn noticeable in both cases. Although from my experience the folks buying the $600 are the enthusiasts that know what they're doing versus the average joe who buys a $150 one to play World of Warcraft or League of Legends.