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Old 04-06-07, 06:56 PM   #1
DodgingCars
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Where does the Wii go from here?

This is sort of an extension to the thread that got closed due to angry name-calling etc. Hopefully we can keep this one more civil.

I did want to change the question though. Instead of focusing on Wii's current (monthly) sales dominance, I wanted to examine/ask where do they go from here?

I've noticed a lot of negativety and criticism of the Wii lately on game sites. There's a lot of talk of it losing it's appeal, it being just a fad, of not having enough support, of not having enough games, of problems with the wii-mote, of the online gaming, etc.

Even though I see some of these as being potential problems for the longetivity of the Wii, I think these critics are short-sighted. They act as if nothing will change. We're just over 4 months in. The Wii has online games coming in a couple months (some confirmed: Mario Strikers, Battallion Wars, and Pokemon). My Sims, Resident Evil: UC, No More Heroes, and some other potentially big 3rd party titles are coming. We still have Mario Galaxy, MP3, and SSB -- all of which may hit this year (2 have been "confirmed" for 2007). Developers will also get better at designing for the Wii (see Godfather's controls praise).

So what's my prescription?

Keep innovating - If the Wii wants to be the console that the others can't be, then continue to innovate and be different. Not just for the sake of being different, but to offer completely new experiences. This can be done by developing interesting/new games that just can't be replicated on other systems (Stuff like Warioware and Trauma Center are good examples of titles that wouldn't work (or wouldn't work well) on other consoles).

There's also room to grow with the Wii-mote. There are currently only 2 attachments: The nunchuck and the classic controller. There was a prototype of a gun that looked neat (Wiimote slides in, has thumb analog control and a trigger -- could work well for shooters, but may need to have games developed specifically for it as some shooters are developed to use the nunchuck). There's plenty of opportunities for other attachments which could create whole new gaming opportunities.

Take Advantage of what it has - I've said before that the Wii has the potential to bring some old PC-style games to it because the Wiimote and nunchuck can do a pretty good job of mimicking a mouse and keyboard. This means that stuff like point and click adventures, RTS, FPS, and any games that use mouse-clicks could be played pretty well on the Wii. More-so than on other consoles. I'd like to see them take advantage of this.

Games, games, games - Killer games are essential. Nintendo has a reputation for putting out good first party titles and I'm sure those will sell well. They need to win over some more developers though. It's good to see EA make a commitment. Ubisoft, despite their bad track record on the Wii so far has at least stepped to the plate. The problem is that a lot of 3rd party stuff would make more sense if it was developed for the Wii instead of just a port. That's why My Sims (even if you're not a Sims person) is good news -- it's being developed specifically for the Wii. Nintendo needs to also put out some new stuff thats not Mario, Zelda, or Metroid. Disaster looks be good.

I'm actually really excited about the potential of the Wii. I think they can really do a lot with this console and bring something completely new, instead of just the same old multibutton controller. I mean, even look at how DDR and Guitar hero changed things with new controllers. The Wii has even greater potential (IMO). I think they've really opened the doors to new ways to play console video games. Let's hope they deliver.

What do you guys think?
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Old 04-06-07, 07:11 PM   #2
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The Wii needs its big console defining title. The DS had Nintendogs, New Super Mario Bros and Brain Age. Until those titles started hitting many were down on the DS.

The Wii needs something like that. Games that draw in people and legitimize the console. Wii Sports is a start, but they have to find a few more. Super Paper Mario will sell, but it is still a GameCube game ported over. The Wii has to find some original software that elevates the Wii Remote beyond a gimmick.

The third parties by and large are not getting that done. I'm very down on the Wii right now as a console. I hate the software, I hate the overpriced Virtual Console and I'm already bored with the limited features like Voting and Weather. Nintendo needs to grab my attention again with software. Hopefully that happens sooner rather than later. Right now I'm hearing the call of the competition and my money may end up on the PS3 or PC instead.
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Old 04-06-07, 07:19 PM   #3
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I think you pretty much nailed it. I love that everything you say is targeted to what the Wii needs to have done to sustain and justify itself as an innovation and not as needing to compete with the other systems.

"Hardcore" gamers need to be given something by someone that allows them to embrace the controller and not curse it for "ruining" every Mario, Zelda, and Metroid game this generatoin.

The non-gamers they're apparently succeeding in attracting need new games that are simple and fun and they need a way to discover these things since the video game aisle or websites are not their usual haunts.

Online is a big deal if they can do something based around a Mii community like the PS3's Home (which I think Reggie has hinted at recently). A place where people can meet and chat and possibly play some Clubhouse Games in a casual and easily accessible manner. Plug a headset into the bottom of the Wiimote and you've got everything you need for that.

The Wii is at an interesting point in its history. It has the potential to be as big and revolutionary as Nintendo believes it can be and at the same time has the biggest chance of outright failure (from a viability standpoint, not profitability).
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Old 04-06-07, 07:22 PM   #4
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I'm hoping it follows the DS.

By that I mean that buy this fall we'll start seeing less gimmicky games/tech demos that are over using the motion controls, and start seeing games that put them to good use, as well as games that aren't afraid to use more traditional control schemes if the motion control isn't a good fit.

On top of that, I hope they start getting some good third party games. I don't want this to be the GC all over again--aka a "mario, zelda and metroid playign machine."

In otherwords, just like what we saw happen with stylus control on the DS.

I want more games like Zelda that make good use of the motion controls blended with traditional controls, and less games like Sonic that IMO make a pretty stupid use of the controls.
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Old 04-06-07, 08:01 PM   #5
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I want a REAL Viva Pinata game for the Wii
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Old 04-06-07, 08:21 PM   #6
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I agree with darkside, as i'm down on the Wii as well right now. At first I totally felt Wii Sports had me sold, but after a couple weeks I'm pretty much "over it."

I want to see Nintendo do something interesting with their channels. The current ones have been useless to me, and I want to see them come up with something genuinely cool that will make want to use it every day or week.

I also want something new with the Mii's. Everyone that i've shown the Wii has gotten a kick out of creating them. I want to see something that takes advantage of them and keep on making people feel like they're part of the game or system.

Finally, I hope Nintendo finds a way to market other games for the non-gamers that purchased it after playing Wii Sports. While some will probably try out a Mario game due to recognition, i'm not so sure the interest for other games will be there.
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Old 04-06-07, 08:44 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by GatorDeb
I want a REAL Viva Pinata game for the Wii
Never going to happen. Microsoft owns Rare.
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Old 04-06-07, 08:53 PM   #8
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Never going to happen. Microsoft owns Rare.
I don't want a port of Viva Pinata. I want a Viva Pinata game in which you use the Wii-mote to whack the heck out of a pinata. How awesome is that?
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Old 04-06-07, 09:10 PM   #9
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Exercise and fitness applications. Not just video games (or maybe a mix of the two). That's my prediction for what can broaden the Wii market and also go beyond the traditional videogame experience.

Plus games with better and more refined controls. And attachments like a gun casing, a bouncing Wii ball, ski/skateboard/surfboard stuff, etc. (Let's skii on the Wii!)
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Old 04-06-07, 09:45 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Hinkle
I'm hoping it follows the DS.

By that I mean that buy this fall we'll start seeing less gimmicky games/tech demos that are over using the motion controls, and start seeing games that put them to good use, as well as games that aren't afraid to use more traditional control schemes if the motion control isn't a good fit.

On top of that, I hope they start getting some good third party games. I don't want this to be the GC all over again--aka a "mario, zelda and metroid playign machine."

In otherwords, just like what we saw happen with stylus control on the DS.

I want more games like Zelda that make good use of the motion controls blended with traditional controls, and less games like Sonic that IMO make a pretty stupid use of the controls.
I think this is exactly what will happen. If you think about it, the Wii is just an extension of the DS. Once developers start realizing that, we'll see games better suited to its strengths without seeming gimmicky.
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Old 04-06-07, 10:43 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GatorDeb
I don't want a port of Viva Pinata. I want a Viva Pinata game in which you use the Wii-mote to whack the heck out of a pinata. How awesome is that?
Then it would just be a plain old pinata smashing game. Viva Pinata is a strategy/sim game.
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Old 04-06-07, 11:01 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GatorDeb
I don't want a port of Viva Pinata. I want a Viva Pinata game in which you use the Wii-mote to whack the heck out of a pinata. How awesome is that?
Pick up the Godfather. Just pretend the shopkeepers are made of papier mache and stuffed with treats.
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Old 04-06-07, 11:14 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drmoze
Exercise and fitness applications. Not just video games (or maybe a mix of the two). That's my prediction for what can broaden the Wii market and also go beyond the traditional videogame experience.
That would be awesome IMO. I have a hard time motivating myself to exercise but if someone created some time of exercise game that would be the best of both worlds!
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Old 04-06-07, 11:27 PM   #14
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I'll be jumping all over the place here:

As time goes by, I'm hearing more and more grumblings from Wii owners.

Let's be honest, 3rd party support on the Wii is terrible. Even Shiggy said one of the main problems is that 3rd and 4th string teams are making games for the Wii.

A 3rd Party would be foolish to make an exclusive big budget game for the Wii when the system is under-powered and doesn't even have an online plan. And because the system is under-powered, you won't see games like GRAW 2/R6V.

If you're expecting anything more than a Mario/Zelda/Metroid system, than you will be disappointed.

Nintendo needs to develop some new IP's. How many more Mario games do we need? We will have SSBB, Mario+Sonic Olympic, SMG, SMStrikers, SPM, Mario Party 8, and I'm sure will get Mario Golf, Mario Tennis, Mario Kart, Mario Baseball, and Mario Dance Dance Revolution.

I already get the feeling the Wii is basically another GameCube in terms of horsepower and variety of games.

Will somebody tell Nintendo that gamers don't want a Friend's code for online play. Anything less than Xbox Live is unacceptable. I would love to hear somebody ask Reggie how a Friends code is user friendly. I'm not even sure if Wii online games will have voice chat.

I'm sure Nintendo wished they came out with games like Guitar Hero, Little Big Planet, Rock Band, and Sing Star first.

But even with this said, Nintendo can't be counted out. While the Gamecube was viewed as a failure by many, that system still made money. Nintendo needs to produce more AAA titles while trying to get more quality 3rd Party Games. Nintendo should start rejecting last-gen ports (Blazing Angels, PoP, etc...) from 3rd Parties. It hurts the image of the system.
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Old 04-07-07, 12:01 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asianflow
I'll be jumping all over the place here:

As time goes by, I'm hearing more and more grumblings from Wii owners.

Let's be honest, 3rd party support on the Wii is terrible. Even Shiggy said one of the main problems is that 3rd and 4th string teams are making games for the Wii.

A 3rd Party would be foolish to make an exclusive big budget game for the Wii when the system is under-powered and doesn't even have an online plan. And because the system is under-powered, you won't see games like GRAW 2/R6V.

If you're expecting anything more than a Mario/Zelda/Metroid system, than you will be disappointed.

Nintendo needs to develop some new IP's. How many more Mario games do we need? We will have SSBB, Mario+Sonic Olympic, SMG, SMStrikers, SPM, Mario Party 8, and I'm sure will get Mario Golf, Mario Tennis, Mario Kart, Mario Baseball, and Mario Dance Dance Revolution.

I already get the feeling the Wii is basically another GameCube in terms of horsepower and variety of games.

Will somebody tell Nintendo that gamers don't want a Friend's code for online play. Anything less than Xbox Live is unacceptable. I would love to hear somebody ask Reggie how a Friends code is user friendly. I'm not even sure if Wii online games will have voice chat.

I'm sure Nintendo wished they came out with games like Guitar Hero, Little Big Planet, Rock Band, and Sing Star first.

But even with this said, Nintendo can't be counted out. While the Gamecube was viewed as a failure by many, that system still made money. Nintendo needs to produce more AAA titles while trying to get more quality 3rd Party Games. Nintendo should start rejecting last-gen ports (Blazing Angels, PoP, etc...) from 3rd Parties. It hurts the image of the system.
I still think that people around here greatly overestimate the importance of online play among regular gamers and especially casual gamers. I've had an Xbox for a couple of years and I've never thought an online service was worth the monthly fee, so I've never used it. And I still think that most people who buy a console are looking forward to taking it home and playing the game alone in their living room or playing when friends come over. They're not thinking about going online.

I already have a Wii and am considering getting a Xbox360 next. My Wii is fully online, but when I get a 360, I'll be surprised if I use the Live service. So, for someone like me, the Wii online plan is perfect. Yes, it's a bit of a pain to input those long friend codes, but much of the market Nintendo is tapping into is unlikely to see this as that big of a deal, having probably not had any online play experience. And voice chat? I just don't see why I should care about something like that and don't think most people would. For the price, the Wii's online experience looks to be everything that I would want and probably a bit more.

And by your third-party logic, I guess no one should be producing PS2 games anymore. After all, it's last generation and underpowered. But the fact is, the PS2 still makes money, and that's what talks. I don't see how producing for the Wii would be any different. There are more and more of them being sold, why not tap into that rapidly growing market?
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Old 04-07-07, 01:26 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asianflow
I'll be jumping all over the place here:

As time goes by, I'm hearing more and more grumblings from Wii owners.

Let's be honest, 3rd party support on the Wii is terrible. Even Shiggy said one of the main problems is that 3rd and 4th string teams are making games for the Wii.
I saw that comment as well, but I still don't know how you could say it's terrible. EA has promised full support -- saying they plan on being the 2nd biggest Wii developer (behind Nintendo). Ubisoft has been on board since the beginning, Capcom is developing a RE exclusive, Majesco is a big Nintendo supporter. The Wii is expecting Guitar Hero, Spider-Man 3, etc. Go to some of the big publisher's sites. The announced games for the Wii tend to match (in #, at least) the announced games for the PS3. I really don't see this "terrible 3rd party support" people are talking about.

Quote:
A 3rd Party would be foolish to make an exclusive big budget game for the Wii when the system is under-powered and doesn't even have an online plan. And because the system is under-powered, you won't see games like GRAW 2/R6V.
That's a ridiculas statement. What does power have to do with anything? The PS2 was the least powerful system of last generation, but had the most games. Why? It had the biggest install base. While some developers are only interested in pushing the graphics threshhold, most publishers are interested in making money. I'm not sure what's considered (big budget), but there are some interesting exclusives coming to the Wii. No More Heroes is one of them.

Quote:
If you're expecting anything more than a Mario/Zelda/Metroid system, than you will be disappointed.
IMO, it's already proved to be more than that. Wii Sports alone proved that to me.

Quote:
Nintendo needs to develop some new IP's. How many more Mario games do we need? We will have SSBB, Mario+Sonic Olympic, SMG, SMStrikers, SPM, Mario Party 8, and I'm sure will get Mario Golf, Mario Tennis, Mario Kart, Mario Baseball, and Mario Dance Dance Revolution.
I do want to see them expand and they do as time goes on, but they also want to make money and the fact is Mario sells. But look at recent additions of Pikmin and Battallion Wars to their lineup. They have 2 new (potential) franchises for the Wii: Project H.A.M.M.E.R. and Disaster: Day of Crisis. Of course, it's easier to just call them a Mario playing machine than to acknowledge that they are developing new games.

Quote:
I already get the feeling the Wii is basically another GameCube in terms of horsepower and variety of games.
It's been out for 4 months!

Quote:
I'm sure Nintendo wished they came out with games like Guitar Hero, Little Big Planet, Rock Band, and Sing Star first.
In terms of what? Popularity or innovation? I think Nintendo has done it first.

Quote:
But even with this said, Nintendo can't be counted out. While the Gamecube was viewed as a failure by many, that system still made money. Nintendo needs to produce more AAA titles while trying to get more quality 3rd Party Games. Nintendo should start rejecting last-gen ports (Blazing Angels, PoP, etc...) from 3rd Parties. It hurts the image of the system.
Ports are NOT BAD! Believe it or not, a lot of people never played those games. They wouldn't make them if they didn't sell. I wish people would stop saying "port" like it's a curse word. Yes, new games are exciting, but ports are useful -- especially to people who didn't own the original system it was on.
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Old 04-07-07, 01:47 AM   #17
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I still think that people around here greatly overestimate the importance of online play among regular gamers and especially casual gamers.
Exactly.

If the 'Xbox Live' experience is what "everyone" wants, then the Xbox 360 would be the top selling console every month. But since it continues to get outsold by the PS2 and Wii every single month, obviously the 'Xbox Live' experience is not what the majority wants.

I'm a Wii owner and I will never pay one cent to play any game online. I will gladly continue to enter friend codes if it means that Wii online remains free of charge. If I wanted an Xbox Live experience, I would have bought an Xbox 360.

Quote:
Originally Posted by asianflow
And because the system is under-powered, you won't see games like GRAW 2/R6V..
Why are people trying to shove the 360 lineup onto the Wii? If people want to play games like GRAW 2/R6V etc., then they will buy an Xbox 360.

As far as new franchises, Nintendo has already revealed new games such as 'Project Hammer' and 'Disaster: Day of Crisis'. So new IPs are already coming in the future.

And as for upcoming exclusive 3rd party games:

NiGHTS
Final Fantasy Chronicles: Crystal Bearers
No More Heroes
Resident Evil Umbrella Chronicles
Dragon Quest Swords

These games look to be shaping up well from the previews I've seen.

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Old 04-07-07, 01:50 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by CreatureX
NiGHTS
Final Fantasy Chronicles: Crystal Bearers
No More Heroes
Resident Evil Umbrella Chronicles
Dragon Quest Swords

These games look to be shaping up well from the previews I've seen.

Plus My Sims. I'm not even a Sims fan, but this has the potential to be very big.
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Old 04-07-07, 01:57 AM   #19
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But if we can.. I'd like to see more of: What do they have to do to be successful this time.
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Old 04-07-07, 08:15 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinata242
"Hardcore" gamers need to be given something by someone that allows them to embrace the controller and not curse it for "ruining" every Mario, Zelda, and Metroid game this generatoin.
I think those that think the Wiimote ruined Zelda this gen are in the minority.

One of the joystiq bloggers brought up something interesting I hadn't thought about. After RE4 is rereleased we are likely to see a scenario where the top 3 games on the Wii are Gamecube titles(Zelda, Paper Mario, RE4) That's crazy.

I have zero doubts about Mario bringing the platforming goodness and setting the new standard for third parties on the Wii. It just needed to come out sooner so that third parties have a bar to strive for. Same with Metroid.
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Old 04-07-07, 10:23 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Michael Corvin
I think those that think the Wiimote ruined Zelda this gen are in the minority.
True, but it was a Gamecube game ported with Wiimote functionality. Will that change when the game is built ground-up around the Wii for the next one? I suppose we'll have a better idea when SMG comes out.
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Old 04-07-07, 11:26 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by CreatureX
Exactly.

If the 'Xbox Live' experience is what "everyone" wants, then the Xbox 360 would be the top selling console every month. But since it continues to get outsold by the PS2 and Wii every single month, obviously the 'Xbox Live' experience is not what the majority wants.

You know, another poster mentioned the "skewed perspective" of 360 fans in terms of graphics and online play in the closed thread. I think the Wii fans have a similar skewed perspective in many areas of this debate/conversation/pissing/shilling match . I have a feeling the truth about online play and graphics is in the middle here. Just because a 40 or 50 dvdtalk wii fans and a few of their friends don't like online play that doesn't mean there aren't lots out there who do. The same goes for the 40 or 50 360 fans and their friendís going the other way on the issue.


Also, it(online play) may or may not be what everyone wants, but you do realize not everyone even has net access. For instance, Minorities are less likely to have computers, let alone net access, than whites but many have still invested in a console gaming systems. I know PS2's are popular with the brothahs . Getting a system and going online may or may not be something they want, but they simply don't have access to it. When I had a PS2 going online was the last thing on my mind because I always heard that although it was free, it was shitty. I wanted to, but since it had such a shitty rep I just didn't worry about it.

Quote:
I'm a Wii owner and I will never pay one cent to play any game online. I will gladly continue to enter friend codes if it means that Wii online remains free of charge. If I wanted an Xbox Live experience, I would have bought an Xbox 360.

You see? That's what I'm talking about. You may not care about online but who's to say that if the Wii came out with a "LIVE" of it's own, free or not,tons of wii fans wouldn't eat it up?
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Old 04-07-07, 11:34 AM   #23
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Wii fanboy here and I can't wait for online play. I can honestly say I would like it to be similar to the 360, which I consider to be a "clinic in how to do online". I would love to have a unified friend list, to be able to see what my friends are playing, and to invite and be invited into games. Am I fine with a different/lesser experience? Sure because these are the games I want to play online or offline.

That's why I don't have a 360 - not because I don't care about online, but because there aren't enough games that I'm dying to play to shell out the cost of the console yet. Right now the only things I would get are XBLA games until Blue Dragon comes out. I have a friend that is basically nagging me to join him, but he knows there needs to be at least two "must-haves" for me before I consider it. Now I'll probably wait until the 120gb model is $400 anyway.
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Old 04-07-07, 12:38 PM   #24
Josh H
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Join Date: May 1999
Posts: 27,449
Quote:
Originally Posted by DodgingCars
I really don't see this "terrible 3rd party support" people are talking about.
Shiggy and others are complaining about the quality of 3rd party games. Most so far have been ports of PS2, PSP etc. games with tacked on motion control. Others have been mediocre (Sonic) or had complicated control schemes that many didn't care for (SSX Blur). Godfather seems to be the first third party getting solid reviews and impressions pretty much across the board.

It may get better in the future, but as of right now there isn't a single third party game on the Wii I'd bother playing if someone gave it to me for free. I have a backlog of PS2, PC and Virtual Console games I'd rather play.
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Old 04-07-07, 01:17 PM   #25
Tracer Bullet
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: IND Crosstown
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Hinkle
Shiggy and others are complaining about the quality of 3rd party games. Most so far have been ports of PS2, PSP etc. games with tacked on motion control. Others have been mediocre (Sonic) or had complicated control schemes that many didn't care for (SSX Blur). Godfather seems to be the first third party getting solid reviews and impressions pretty much across the board.

It may get better in the future, but as of right now there isn't a single third party game on the Wii I'd bother playing if someone gave it to me for free. I have a backlog of PS2, PC and Virtual Console games I'd rather play.
As I see it, this is only a problem because most (if not all) third-party developers were expecting the Wii to sell like the Gamecube. I don't think anyone saw the Wii as the top-selling console. However, since this is the case, you see more and more third-party games being announced for the Wii.

All the third-party games released currently or coming out in the next few months were planned before the current sales reality. If the Wii keeps selling like it is, I fully expect to see much more third-party support for the Wii (as opposed to the Gamecube).
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