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Old 08-08-05, 08:48 AM   #1
jeffdsmith
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Lik-Sang.com Taken to Court By Sony

Interesting to say the least:

Quote:
"As published on Lik-Sang's Website Sony has taken legal actions against Hong Kong's largest exporter of videogames and videogaming gear. One month before the official european launch and 9 months after the initial release of the PSP, this action looks very late at first sight. Since it's highly doubtful that Sony can permit the resale of the japanese PSP consoles in Hong Kong no matter if on the local market or for export, it looks like this is planned to be one of the not the bright marketing ideas of the Sony HQ. The japanese PSP has the same Region Code for UMDs as the ones which will be sold in europe in september. Since the shipping at Lik-Sang is free, the console is even cheaper to import than to buy it locally."
What are your guys opinions on importers like this? Obviously Lik-Sang has put Sony in a difficult position as Sony is not willing to sell the PSP for as much as a loss in smaller markets. Does Sony have a right to an exclusive market, or should Sony pay the price for what some would call unfair practices?
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Old 08-08-05, 11:04 AM   #2
fujishig
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Since Sony makes the product, they have every legal right to pursue this... that's why all media and hardware has that "only for sale in Region XX" sign on it. They've been going after European importing for a few months now, and most stores will no longer sell product to Europe.

As to whether it's a good idea, I don't know. They garner bad word of mouth, but I doubt that's going to stop the majority from picking it up anyway, and I'm not sure most people will care. When Xbox 360 comes out, if it's at the rumored European price, they'll be a bigger uproar, I'd think. Not to mention, if they're going after these guys, why not go after all the Hong Kong bootleggers instead???
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Old 08-08-05, 12:34 PM   #3
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I purchase my PSP from Lik-Sang, and admit that they do make a very nice profit from their sales that Sony sees none of. If I was Sony, I would be pissed off too.
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Old 08-08-05, 12:52 PM   #4
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lik-sang is known for also selling "mod" devices to play backup games.. It seems like Sony couldn't bust them on that so they are trying this method.. kinda like busting Al Capone on tax evasion
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Old 08-08-05, 01:54 PM   #5
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Sony has a legal right to do this, but I question the morality of it.

I don't like the fact certain countries are restricted from buying games, movies, etc. If we want them and are paying the extra money for imports I see no reason why it should not be allowed.

All those PSPs Lik Sang is selling were bought from Sony. Its not like they broke into a warehouse and stole them our manufactured knock offs. Sony made their money on the hardware so I don't feel sorry for them.

Yeah, I understand they have a legal right but from the standpoint of a gamer it does seem unfair.
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Old 08-08-05, 02:17 PM   #6
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I don't think it's necessarily a moral issue, but I do see your point.

To me, the only justification they have is that they want to have accurate sales numbers, and if a large number of people are importing, especially loss-leaders like hardware, it's hard for them to accurately determine regional sales. So if a lot of Europeans get tired of waiting and import, and the European PSP launch fails because of it, game makers might not want to target that market, etc.

That being said, I doubt the importation of this stuff makes a huge difference in their numbers. The anti-mod thing is something I never thought about...
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Old 08-08-05, 02:43 PM   #7
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is there no end the butt buddyness of sony, riaa, mpa, and the like. drop your prices and they will come. this is crazy the psp probably cost something like 25 dollars us to make anyway. damn everything is getting so messy what is some large company going to go after next or what game is going to baned because you see a set of boobs on some girl.
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Old 08-08-05, 03:15 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanDip0001
the psp probably cost something like 25 dollars us to make anyway.
In case you missed the "loss leader" comment earlier, Sony is taking a financial loss on each PSP sold. It is costing them money to get a PSP in your hands for a somewhat reasonable price. They are helping out gamers, not hurting them.

They are also trying to control distribution to control losses. A PSP sold in Japan at launch cost Sony more than a PSP that will launch in Europe in a couple weeks - technology is cheaper and economies of scale kick in. If Sony only makes the device available to those in Japan, then you have potential sales of a few million. If importers open that up to the whole world, then the potential sales multiply and so do the losses - much faster than Sony wants.

Sony does have legit reasons they are doing this. They are not trying to be unfair to gamers, just protecting themselves from unnecessary losses.
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Old 08-08-05, 07:22 PM   #9
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I think it was the previous owners of lik-sang not the current who sold ps mod chips.

I wonder if sony will go after dvdsoon, dvdboxoffice etc?

From a personal point of view I say screw them, since I'm sick of having to pay through the nose for everything just because I live on the ass end of the world. Having said that psp is set to launch for 350 AUD over here which is very reasonable considering.
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Old 08-08-05, 11:36 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshd2012
In case you missed the "loss leader" comment earlier, Sony is taking a financial loss on each PSP sold. It is costing them money to get a PSP in your hands for a somewhat reasonable price. They are helping out gamers, not hurting them.

They are also trying to control distribution to control losses. A PSP sold in Japan at launch cost Sony more than a PSP that will launch in Europe in a couple weeks - technology is cheaper and economies of scale kick in. If Sony only makes the device available to those in Japan, then you have potential sales of a few million. If importers open that up to the whole world, then the potential sales multiply and so do the losses - much faster than Sony wants.

Sony does have legit reasons they are doing this. They are not trying to be unfair to gamers, just protecting themselves from unnecessary losses.
I agree they have every right to do what they are doing, but at the same time if you honestly believe that they are selling them at a loss I want some of what you're taking. Maybe a loss of cost for build time, or a loss for a certain part, but not an entire loss. That is like saying movie theaters loose their ass on the popcorn they buy, pop, and sell to everyone of us when we go watch a movie. They might loose money on the people they are paying to pop that popcorn, or the power of the machine used, but at the end of the day when the sales are done and all the cost are figured in they rapped the people who bought the stuff.

I totally understand where you're coming from, but somehow I don't think Sony is going to take a loss on their earnings in the near future, unless Microsoft or some other large company makes some really crazy hand held system that beats the PSP and Nintendoís stuff hands down, but I don't see that happing anytime soon.

I just think it is crazy why everyone is going after everyone now. Before it is all done and over with, the large companies are going to have sex with the MPA and RIAA and an evil baby will come out named George Bush and run everything to hell.

Now back to my movie theater popcorn
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Old 08-09-05, 07:19 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanDip0001
I agree they have every right to do what they are doing, but at the same time if you honestly believe that they are selling them at a loss I want some of what you're taking. Maybe a loss of cost for build time, or a loss for a certain part, but not an entire loss. That is like saying movie theaters loose their ass on the popcorn they buy, pop, and sell to everyone of us when we go watch a movie. They might loose money on the people they are paying to pop that popcorn, or the power of the machine used, but at the end of the day when the sales are done and all the cost are figured in they rapped the people who bought the stuff.

I totally understand where you're coming from, but somehow I don't think Sony is going to take a loss on their earnings in the near future, unless Microsoft or some other large company makes some really crazy hand held system that beats the PSP and Nintendoís stuff hands down, but I don't see that happing anytime soon.

I just think it is crazy why everyone is going after everyone now. Before it is all done and over with, the large companies are going to have sex with the MPA and RIAA and an evil baby will come out named George Bush and run everything to hell.

Now back to my movie theater popcorn
I just had this long ass post explaining it and giving an example, and when I hit submit, IE froze. DAMN YOU!

I'll make this short: Both Sony and Microsoft take losses on their hardware. They make it up through software and accessory sales. Its has been this way for a while, so the PSP being sold at a loss is not a big deal - its the way of the industry.
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Old 08-09-05, 11:11 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshd2012
I just had this long ass post explaining it and giving an example, and when I hit submit, IE froze. DAMN YOU!

I'll make this short: Both Sony and Microsoft take losses on their hardware. They make it up through software and accessory sales. Its has been this way for a while, so the PSP being sold at a loss is not a big deal - its the way of the industry.

WORD! I'm in the industry, which is probably the only reason I hate software pirates, I mean otherwise having the little patch over your eye would be cool right!
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Old 08-09-05, 11:13 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanDip0001
I agree they have every right to do what they are doing, but at the same time if you honestly believe that they are selling them at a loss I want some of what you're taking. Maybe a loss of cost for build time, or a loss for a certain part, but not an entire loss. That is like saying movie theaters loose their ass on the popcorn they buy, pop, and sell to everyone of us when we go watch a movie. They might loose money on the people they are paying to pop that popcorn, or the power of the machine used, but at the end of the day when the sales are done and all the cost are figured in they rapped the people who bought the stuff.

I totally understand where you're coming from, but somehow I don't think Sony is going to take a loss on their earnings in the near future, unless Microsoft or some other large company makes some really crazy hand held system that beats the PSP and Nintendoís stuff hands down, but I don't see that happing anytime soon.

I just think it is crazy why everyone is going after everyone now. Before it is all done and over with, the large companies are going to have sex with the MPA and RIAA and an evil baby will come out named George Bush and run everything to hell.

Now back to my movie theater popcorn
And if you really think it costs 25 bucks to manufacture the PSP, I'll have some of what you're taking too. If they're not taking a loss, it's because of the bundle, where they force accessories on you. The accessories, the games they manufacture, and the licenses other game makers pay them to make games for their system are where the money is made (not to mention UMDs, which seem to be the moneymaker right now). Consoles always sell for a loss these days for at least a year or two after they come out, until technology and/or manufacturing becomes cheaper. They may not take a overall loss on their earnings, but considering the gaming division is the moneymaker what with the TV division not doing so hot, they have to protect their profits.

BTW, when Best buy has those killer sales, new DVDs for 14.99 or new games for 30-35 bucks, they're taking a loss on those too, hoping that the people coming in will buy other stuff while they're there. Same concept.
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Old 08-09-05, 11:29 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanDip0001
I'm in the industry, which is probably the only reason I hate software pirates
Software pirates? Sony wants exclusive control of dictating who can sell the PSP where. Too bad. Artificial markets (like with DVDs) do not help the industry.
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Old 08-09-05, 09:30 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fujishig
And if you really think it costs 25 bucks to manufacture the PSP, I'll have some of what you're taking too. If they're not taking a loss, it's because of the bundle, where they force accessories on you. The accessories, the games they manufacture, and the licenses other game makers pay them to make games for their system are where the money is made (not to mention UMDs, which seem to be the moneymaker right now). Consoles always sell for a loss these days for at least a year or two after they come out, until technology and/or manufacturing becomes cheaper. They may not take a overall loss on their earnings, but considering the gaming division is the moneymaker what with the TV division not doing so hot, they have to protect their profits.

BTW, when Best buy has those killer sales, new DVDs for 14.99 or new games for 30-35 bucks, they're taking a loss on those too, hoping that the people coming in will buy other stuff while they're there. Same concept.
Every large company does this, its standard business today. Hell Meijer takes losses all the time, but they make it up or write it off Sony, Microsoft, ATI, etc all do the same. I guess what I feel is that Sony or whomever is making the newest thing doesn't have to rape us on the prices, because it doesn't cost them crap to make it and the revenue is made up for at other places through the product's life cycle. Iím sure there are people out there who love to get raped and pay out to have the newest toy it just doesn't sound like any fun to me though.

And having a company who makes the product control where it goes and whom it is sold too is good in some cases. I mean I wouldnít want supercomputers going to people who are going to use them to make WOMD. Just like I wouldnít want Unreal Tournament 2004 going to a kid who has epilepsy. There is good reason for most things, but I donít feel this is one of those cases, let the people get it cheaper it isnít going to kill you.
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Old 08-09-05, 10:16 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanDip0001
Every large company does this, its standard business today. Hell Meijer takes losses all the time, but they make it up or write it off Sony, Microsoft, ATI, etc all do the same. I guess what I feel is that Sony or whomever is making the newest thing doesn't have to rape us on the prices, because it doesn't cost them crap to make it and the revenue is made up for at other places through the product's life cycle. Iím sure there are people out there who love to get raped and pay out to have the newest toy it just doesn't sound like any fun to me though.

And having a company who makes the product control where it goes and whom it is sold too is good in some cases. I mean I wouldnít want supercomputers going to people who are going to use them to make WOMD. Just like I wouldnít want Unreal Tournament 2004 going to a kid who has epilepsy. There is good reason for most things, but I donít feel this is one of those cases, let the people get it cheaper it isnít going to kill you.
By definition, the word "rape" cannot be used to describe a consensual interaction between two parties. If someone thinks the amount of money to buy a PSP is too much, they can simply choose not to buy it. Sony's not forcing anyone to give them money.
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Old 08-09-05, 10:37 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdcrym
By definition, the word "rape" cannot be used to describe a consensual interaction between two parties. If someone thinks the amount of money to buy a PSP is too much, they can simply choose not to buy it. Sony's not forcing anyone to give them money.
Good call. My question is, is it "rape" if you buy it at full price and the only good games that are available on it are old NES ROM's and a puzzle game?



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Old 08-10-05, 07:07 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by jeffdsmith
Good call. My question is, is it "rape" if you buy it at full price and the only good games that are available on it are old NES ROM's and a puzzle game?
If so, then Nintendo has been raping consumers for over 20 years.

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Old 08-10-05, 07:18 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by joshd2012
If so, then Nintendo has been raping consumers for over 20 years.


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Old 08-10-05, 02:25 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdcrym
By definition, the word "rape" cannot be used to describe a consensual interaction between two parties. If someone thinks the amount of money to buy a PSP is too much, they can simply choose not to buy it. Sony's not forcing anyone to give them money.

Are you really that inept to verbal sarcasm because of minor social interaction? Or are you just being a smart ass because you know I'm right. Or is it the fact that you feel you must personally attack me to obtain ****** status? At any rate I donít do that crap to you so donít start it with me. I was doing what I always do stating things IMO.
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Old 08-10-05, 02:31 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by joshd2012
If so, then Nintendo has been raping consumers for over 20 years.


I agree, but that is the nature of business. It is how this (games, electronics, software, etc) industry works. Sad but true. When I shop for stuff I try to keep the corporate raping as small as possible.
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Old 08-10-05, 02:41 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanDip0001
I guess what I feel is that Sony or whomever is making the newest thing doesn't have to rape us on the prices, because it doesn't cost them crap to make it and the revenue is made up for at other places through the product's life cycle. Iím sure there are people out there who love to get raped and pay out to have the newest toy it just doesn't sound like any fun to me though.

...


There is good reason for most things, but I donít feel this is one of those cases, let the people get it cheaper it isnít going to kill you.
I guess I don't understand. Are you saying that somehow Sony's cost to make the PSP is a lot less than most of us presume, and that they're actually making money on it? Or are you saying that they should subsidize the cost of it even more because they're making money in other areas?

If you wait for technology, the price will come down, and you won't have to "get raped." If you want the newest and shiniest, you pay more.

It's not going to kill anyone to make anything cheaper, but it will cut into their profits. You could make a similar case with any product that makes a profit.
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Old 08-10-05, 02:48 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanDip0001
Are you really that inept to verbal sarcasm because of minor social interaction? Or are you just being a smart ass because you know I'm right. Or is it the fact that you feel you must personally attack me to obtain ****** status? At any rate I donít do that crap to you so donít start it with me. I was doing what I always do stating things IMO.
I don't see what the fuss is about. First of all, maybe I am inept to sarcasm, because I didn't see any in your earlier post. Also, I don't see how my response is a personal attack. Sure, I disagreed with the content of your post, but that doesn't constitute a personal attack.

Nevertheless, my point still stands. The word "rape" is often used as an exaggeration, as shown in the following cases:

"My professor raped me when she graded my exam."
"Did you see the game last night? Team1 bent Team2 over and raped them dry."
"I raped someone last night. On the poker table that is."

But voluntarily buying something from a retailer despite cringing at a high price doesn't fall into this category.

IMO

I'm not even sure what ****** status is, so as far as I know, I'm not trying to obtain it.
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