Kainan

To the PC comment--

This is changing very rapidly. DoomIII, GR, RavenShield, and the list goes on forever. I'm very happy about this trend because although I have a PC that can run those games I wouldn't consider sitting in front of a PC monitor over kicking back on the couch playing on a 58" HDTV. Heck, even when I only had my 32" TV I wouldn't play in front of my PC.

To the comment to me about my statement--

I don't think my argument was too much at all. The strength of my argument was meant to be over the top and silly to show the absurdity in his use of the term "graphics whore". Also, the difference in graphics between the systems may be much smaller than my over exaggeration but graphics are all about incremental steps. If no one cares to take those steps and be a "graphic whore" then we would still be set back. Even the PCs would stop having updated graphics cards every 3 to 6 months. Lastly, I never said everyone had a $6000 HDTV. My point was that people buy the BEST that they can afford because they would LIKE the best. If someone gave you the choice of playing on a $6000 HDTV or a 27" Magnavox which would you choose? If you said the HDTV then this still doesn't make you a "Picture clarity whore" but simply makes you a person who wants the best they can get. For the same reason I would buy the best looking copy of Splinter Cell that I could get. Does this logic not ring true to you? The whole "graphics whore" thing is what is grossly overstated IMO. Just because someone wants the best, even if by a little, doesn't mean they are a graphics whore.

Josh H

I buy new systems to play new games, I could care less about the graphics updates.

Graphics whores=someone who cares more (or as much) about the latest eye candy as they do just having fun playing games. It's not just someone that likes eye candy. To me great graphics are just a bonus, and don't make a game more or less fun.

BTW, I do have a GBA and SNES hooked up and play them quite a bit.

As for not considering multi-platform titles, I said they don't factor into my decision on which console(s) to buy as their often on all 3 so it doesn't matter since I really don't care if one version has slightly better graphics. I didn't mean I never play them there are several good games that are ported to all systems.

I was simply asserting that it doesn't affect my decision on which console to buy, and as such I base that on what games are exclusive to each console and buy the system(s) with the most exclusive games that interest met. The added aside is that exclusives are usually the best games out there or the companies wouldn't shell out the $ to get them as exclusives. I mean, Halo, GTA 3 and VC, FFX, Nintendo's games, etc. etc. are better than most if not all the third party, multiplatform games (sports games aside) IMO. Splinter Cell is probably the only one I can think of that many gamers would put in the same league as those type of exclusives.

Kainan

I think I'll take Trigger's advice on this one.

PJsig08

Alright, need some advice, feel free to help...

Recently ditched the GC 'cause it wasn't providing anything worthwhile for me. Whatever, end of story. But, I'm really torn between the XBOX and the PS2. I've read many a threads (even one's comparing the strengths and weaknesses), but I had some specifical questions and concerns so here's a new thread. And frankly, this is the only place to get rational help without the 13-15 year old age bracket.

So I'm 21, moving on from the old school SNES and N64 days and ready to hit the older more mature titles. But I don't don't don't want to invest in something that I'm gonna get "screwed over" in. I've had enough of it from the last two systems I've bought (DC and GC) and am looking for something that's gonna last and entertain me....for once.

Here's my deal with each system...

PS2- Has the GTA series. Frankly, 90% of the reason I'm even considering it is 'cause of Vice City. I enjoyed GTA3 (only messed around, didn't do missions) and from the little I've seen of Vice, I gotta have it and destroy it. I'm sure others have felt this way. I do here it is buggy, and not as beautiful graphically compared to the PC version...still I can't see myself (someone who barely ever plays PC games) controlling this game well with a mouse and keyboard.

I have a broadband connection, and like the new PS2's coming out with the adapter for free. Good deal. While I would enjoy playing Madden and others online for free, it isn't something I'd be consumed with. The new Gran Turismo looks great, but again, I wouldn't kill myself for it. Of course Sony gets all the titles, all the support and such, but the main reason I want this is for the GTA games. They (Sony) really knew what they were doing when they secured the rights to the series.

I don't like RPGs, or the Japanese games or most PC games. I'd pretty much go for the sports, action/shooting and big name titles (GTA:VC)

XBOX- OK, so here's what I'm thinking here. First it's $20 less than the PS2, which is pretty significant. Has the internal harddrive (no memory cards thank the Lord), has ridiculous power and has the check book of God to back it up. Powerful system with some nice features. Has Splinter Cell (or best version) too, which looks mighty nice.

Now for the bad...no GTA series. At least yet...the earliest it could get Vice City is mid 2004? That's pretty far off. Also, it has Halo 1 and 2 (which I like) but it also has a ton of games I don't care for, as well as an online gaming system that costs $50+ compared to $0 for the PS2. The BOX does get the best ports (for sports titles) and allows a lot more with the harddrive, but the controller is just "ehhh".

OK, if you made it this far you're willing to help. Let me know what you guys think between the two, which one you're playing more, which one you see with the brighter future. Thanks guys.

Groucho

I imagine this will be merged with one of the 2 billion "Xbox or PS2?" threads out there, but I have a couple comments:

1. The GTA games. Control is better with mouse and keyboard when your dude is running around. It's not as good when you are driving.

2. Xbox is $20 less than PS2? They both have the same MSRP ($179.99), so you should be able to get either at the same price.

spainlinx0

Maybe he's referring to the new PS2's going to be released.

cheapskate

The only thing I could add is that the X-BOX is not $20 cheaper... they are both currently priced at $179.99 - does that help?

I vote PS2 simply for the larger selection of games...

Marker

The newer PS2 model w/ the network adapter and IR port is going to be $199, giving the Xbox the $20 advantage eventually (although Sony can change that anytime). I own both consoles, and would recommend the Xbox due to 2 things:

Halo (out now)
Halo 2 (out early 2004)

Hehe, jk. Halo is the best FPS I've ever played, though. If you want GTA, get it for the PC and buy a gamepad while you're at it. There are plenty of decent dual-analog pads for around $20 or less. I believe pretty much every non-RPG game will come out on both consoles, and the Xbox has the better version 95% of the time.

joshd2012

He is talking about the new version with the Network Adapter which will retail for $199.

It really sounds like you want to play GTA:VC. If that is the case, you have no other choice but then to get a PS2. I really don't blame you (I'm addicted to it myself). As for online play, not all PS2 games are free (you can't play EverQuest for free) and EA is rumored to be talking about charging for online play, but nothing has been officially mentioned.

You won't get screwed on either system for lack of games (though, some will argue they have been screwed by lack of games on the box), and both have a bright future. Sports titles they share (expect for EA online (and possibly Sega?)). What type of shooters do you like?

Trigger

You could play GTA on the PC. You can also play Halo on the PC. Just get a PC.

joshd2012

Or you can just play "the best FPS" on your computer with the extra levels using a mouse and keyboard like FPS games are supposed to be played

As for non-RPG game coming to both consoles, I think not. It all depends on what you like though.

sniper308

How much time do you have to game and how many titles do you consume (basically how many games do you burn through in a short time). If it is alot then the PS2 may make sense due to its library size.

I'd also ask if you play a lot of multiplayer or single player. In other words do games like Halo with a lot of multiplayer death match options, etc make a difference? Or do you get tired of playing a single title quick, no matter what the available options are.

For me I have an X box and a GC, but no PS2. I don't have a ton of time to spend on video games, but the single player games on the GC (Resident Evil, Metroid Prime, etc) coupled with the good single player campaign mode on Halo, along with the occassional chance to hook up with some Halo multiplayer/system link play at a friends house is the right combination. I don't have a need to play tons of games, just a few select good ones.

Joshic

sports: XBOX by a LARGE margin, especially if you have broadband
action/shooting: XBOX by a LARGE margin
big name titles: each system has big name titles; depends on which big name titles you like the best.
RPGs: PS2 by a LARGE margin
Driving games: PS2 has the best in GranTurismo & the BEST steering wheel, but Xbox has more quality racers overall. I'd say this is evenly split.

In your case, your "big name titles" are the grand theft auto series. you should definitely buy an xbox, then either rent a PS2 to play GTA games, or play the GTA games on a PC.

This is a no-brainer for your circumstances. get an xbox.

Personally though, if I had to choose ONLY one system, I'd choose PS2 cuz I love final fantasy, dark cloud2, GT3. But I love the Xbox too. I own all 3 systems.

PJsig08

What advantages does the PS2 version of GTA:VC have over the PC one? Should I get a new pad, as I have the old Sidewinder one from Microsoft right now.

Are the graphics on the XBOX for ports of, let's say, Madden and Splinter Cell that much better than the PS2 ports?

And, whats the best deal on an XBOX right now? I read that MSN Dollar post, but am confused...do you need to sign up for anything? Is this online or B&M etc.

nick-tdi

Cheapest XBOX I have seen is $149.99 for a refurb unit at EB. It comes with a S controller but not the SegaGT/GSRF which you can get for another $10 at EB as well. If you do get a next-gen system I highly recommned an extended warranty. I had one on my PS2 and it die on me. Fortunalty I was able to take it back for store credit. Got one on my X-Box from EB for $25 for 2 years. They will not give you store credit but will trade the X-Box out for a new refurbed unit, no questions asked.

Anyway I choose the Xbox because I was simply scared of the PS2 dying on me. I've read, and had personally happen a PS2 die, with no fault of mine. My friends is about to die as well so they can be fickle beast.

The Xbox is harder to mod, so if import games are a big thing to you, then this may deter you. But it can be done and once it is the Xbox can kick ass. It can run Linux, Windows Media Player Clone, and a slew of other homebrew software. If you really wanted to you could never have to use your PC again. Plus you can install a bigger hardrive to store your games on to slow down your load times even more, store loads of music, run a picture slide show on you TV, and a lot more. It basically having a kick ass gaming machince and PC hooked up to your TV.

Now I will admit that the PS2 has a on of games and some really great ones. I never got into GTA but GTA:VC was a really fun game to play with the buds. I'll miss FF but I live. Fable will come out and hopefully I'll be impressed. I don't play as much as I used to, so a larger library didn't really factor into my decsion. Good quality games, on a quality machine was more important.

As far as the argument that XBOX live is another $50 expense look at these numbers.

Xbox $180.00
LIVE Kit $50.00

Total: $230.00

NEW PS2 $200.00
Memory card to save those game files $30.00

Total $230.00

Yes the Xbox requires another $30 to be a DVD player, but it's a quality upgrade, with a good remote and decent feature. Worht the price for me.

So what am I saying? It's basically up to you, but I hope me reasoning came help clear up some of your questions.

PJsig08

The XBOX dvd remote, to me, looks like a piece of crap with pretty much no normal DVD player function buttons. I may be wrong...

So yeah, my big thing is the GTA series...I hear it might come to XBOX in 2004 but that's speculation.

And another quip I keep hearing with the BOX is a boring lineup of titles...with pretty much only (better) ports of PS2 and PC titles. Can anyone refute this or prove me wrong?

While I'm leaning toward the XBOX power and specs, the PS2 lineup (or pretty much everything) keeps drawing me back. This shouldn't be this tough

Oh, and I may have asked this already, but are the XBOX graphics (of ports) THAT much better than the PS2's? Just wondering what the disparity was between ported titles as well as all games in general (like GT3 on the PS2 compared to Splinter Cell or whatever on the XBOX).

Groucho

Define "normal DVD player function buttons."

PJsig08

What I meant were specific buttons on the controller for:

each audio channel
subtitles
different picture/audio setups
numbers for entering titles/chapters
A-B

etc.

My basic Toshiba dvd player has a ton of buttons on it...here is a pic: http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0...3.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

nick-tdi

The X Box DVD Remote has most buttons found on a regular DVD remote.

Display- this is like the on screen feature found on my JVC remote. Allows easy access to subtitles, angles, alt. tracks, etc.

Play, Ch. reverse, Ch. forward, stop, pause, skip forward and backward (I can't remeber the x speed on this.)

also has a title, info, and back button. I haven't messed with these to figure them out yet. Has the all important menu key. It does have a bizare number pad set which can access the chapters instantly. I'll never use it, but if they didn't put it on there some would complain. I'm not sure really what it's lacking.

The player does offer a 10x zoom, a feature not found on my old JVC. I do believe it can be programmed into univ. remotes, so thats a plus. No back light sucks, but I didn't have it before. The layout is easy. My wife has no problems figuring out how to play a movie with this remote. The plastic could be a little better. I think it's the same as the contollers. Not a bad plastic at all, just could be improved.

Solid add-on. I'm not displeased with it at all. Do I wish it came with the XBOX sure, but the machine does come with an enternal 8-10 gig Hard Drive. Something neither of the next gen. have. And the GC can never be used as a DVD player so that can't compare as far as this feature is concerned.

nick-tdi

all of these features can be accessed with the display button, and the arrow keys.

Joshic

The reason why you want to get an XBox for sports games is:
1.) Xbox Live. PS2 also has online play, but it's not refined like Xbox Live. Xbox live is standardized, easier to use, it is broadband-only, so slow modem users don't keep you down. It is also less susceptible to cheats (if at all)
2.) save games in sports games regularly take up 25% or more of a memory card on a PS2. More on a Gamecube. You'll be buying lots of memory cards. Xbox you don't have to worry about this because you have the hard drive.
3.) graphics are better on Xbox. Xbox sports games already have better graphics and 480p. Some sports games (and undoubtedly more in the future) are in HD only on the Xbox. HD makes a big difference in graphics quality obviously.
4.) Xbox has 4 controller ports. If you want to play 4 players on a sports game on PS2, you have to buy a multitap. There goes another $30.

As for Xbox games having better graphics in general than PS2, look at it this way. Even if a xbox game doesn't make the best use of bump mapping, pixel shading, and other graphic techniques that the PS2 can't do... there's still the fact that almost all xbox games are in 480p and only a handful of games on PS2 are in 480p. That's the difference between a progressive scan DVD player and a normal DVD player. A lot of people will tell you that seeing things in progressive scan is a lot better.

joshd2012

Not to bust your bubble about graphics, but games are about gameplay, not graphics. Anyway, what sports games does MS have online?

PJsig08

What exactly is "480p"?

For the most part, except for the ocassionaly trip to the family's big screen (not HD but still very very nice), I'll be playing this on a standard 20" or so Toshiba screen. It's nice, the closest thing to flatscreen without being flatscreen.

And I gotta agree with josh, the graphics are just icing on the cake for me. My problem with the XBOX is it isn't even close to the PS2, in the amount of consoles sold. Game companies know this and go out of their way to bring every game to the PS2, made for the PS2 hardware. Just a point....

Joshic

NO NO NO. Games are about graphics AND gameplay. You want gameplay? Play a board game. Play a party game. Graphics are a large part of what separates videogames from other gaming types. Graphics and gameplay are both important. In the case of sports games that are multiplatform (what we are discussing here), the gameplay across platforms is the same. In this case better graphics can have heavier weight than usual.

http://www.xbox.com/LIVE/Games/Live-GamesList.htm

go to the DVD & Home Theater Hardware Forum of dvdtalk, and read the sticky at the top of the forum titled "HDTV Myths, Misnomers, and Mysteries" You obviously need to do more research before asking questions. No offense, everyone was a newbie at one point. Just be sure to read it carefully.

While you read it, take this into consideration:
--PS2 supports 480i on most games. 480p on a handful of games.
--Xbox supports 480p on almost all games. 720p and 1080i on a handful of games, and more to come in the future. Especially 720p games.

Josh H

An important thing to note about the online sports games is that EAs (Madden, NBA Live, etc.) are only online on the PS2.

So don't get an X-box if you don't like Sega's NFL2Kx for instance. Their basketball game, NBA2Kx is far superior to NBA Live in most people's (and reviewers opinions) so that's probably a moot point.

MS also has their own football game (Fever) and basketball (Inside Drive) which I believe offer online play. I've only played fever a little, and hated it. It's pretty arcadey and not my cup of tea. This year's version got pretty poor reviews. Inside Drive I haven't played, but it got decent reviews but all that I read said it couldn't compare to NBA2K3.

So in sum. If you're into online sports gaming, you'll need to decide which companies (EA or Sega and MS) to decide whether to get a PS2 or X-box.

If you don't care about online for sports, then get an X-box due to better graphics (gameplay is the same) and the HD for saves.